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Moronic organization over and over again

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Old
10-23-2003, 04:34 AM
  #1
fumanchou
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Moronic organization over and over again

First, I'd like to say that me too I'm glad to see the Habs putting more consistent efforts than last year and getting results for that. However I'd like to point out 2 situations which I can't figure out.

1) Langdon and Begin pickups. Haven't we got enough with those waiver pickups that look good for 20 games and end up in Hamilton 6 months later. Dwyer and Lindsay are the most recent examples that
come to my mind. Ok we need a goon and Dwyer/Blouin were no solution, so maybe Langdon will turn out to be a good patch. But what is more useless on a 20 man roster than a 4th line center ? Who cares about Begin. He was not even able to play for Calgary and Buffalo, that should say enough. Couldn't we just use those 8-10 minutes of icetime to prepare Higgins ? He was looking good in the 2 games he played. Personnally, I prefer a top prospect like Higgins to get 10 min. NHL icetime than 20 min. AHL icetime.

2) No-future man, Bouillon. Another loveable useless player a la Petrov. What was the point of giving him a contract this summer and send Dykhuis and Traverse to Hamilton. All 3 are just fringe players we couldn't care less about, the ideal press-box watchers. 2 were enough, why 3 ? And when it comes to giving icetime to one of those over a top prospect like Hainsey then I get sick. How do you want your team to progress when you give icetime to Bouillon ? The new defensive system of Julien and good play of our core (Markov/Souray/Rivet/Brisebois) should be enough to give us the security needed to insert a rookie in the lineup. The Quintal vs Komi situation I can understand, but Bouillon vs Hainsey ... come on !!! I just read the ESPN article about their 2 rookie defensemen (Martin and ???). Talk about an organization that takes their reponsisbilities.

That's all I had to rant about ... for now :p

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10-23-2003, 04:47 AM
  #2
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You're wrong on some points!!!

I don't remember habs giving petrov any contracts this summer, he's playing in Europe, and Traverse Was Used Frequently Last year and didn't cost much when he signed, and Dykhuis was already given his extension in contract before he started playing bad, so don't blame management their contracts were awarded when they were assets to organization unlike now.

Begin has been very usefull ever since he's come to montreal and he didn't cost anything, actually this is way better then trading for a descent player where we have to pay the price, atleast we solved got two very physical and playable players for free in the roster, they're just making $750 K combined to very low price to pay, and if they don't work out then they'll probably go back to waiver wire nothing to lose here.

About Bouillon and Hainsey reallity for both of them is they're both sixth defencemen for habs right now, so they'll probably split games played between them.

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10-23-2003, 04:48 AM
  #3
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Well I'd first like to say that you're missing the connection between sending Traverse and Dykhuis down and the consistently good play of the Habs this season. They weren't giving it their all, and it obviously sent a message to the rest of the Habs.

In terms of ability, Bouillion is slightly better than Traverse but much tougher and has twice the heart. He may be small but he's a tough bugger, which is what we've been lacking on the blueline. Makes perfect sense to me.

The Habs' forwards have been playing tougher as Juneau, Dacks and Sundstrom should be aware they could lose their spots to the afformentioned Begin and Langdon.

Why Langdon? Why not? He's the toughest inforcer we've had in years. As for Begin, never watched him play, though he seems to inject some much needed energy and scored the other night to boot.

In short, I'm fine with going through waiver wire players and recycling 4th liners. We've had pretty good success acquiring guys making less than $2 mil(Gilmore, Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom, Kilger, Dwyer etc. have all made great contributions). Let's not forget the massive amount of injuries the Habs incurred about 3 seasons ago! Better to pick someone up for free than to trade for a lazy star.

Edit: As for Higgins' icetime, he's never actually played in the AHL...so it would be a benefit for him to see 20 mins a game. He'd surely pick up a lot of experience on Svitov's wing!

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10-23-2003, 04:55 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
First, I'd like to say that me too I'm glad to see the Habs putting more consistent efforts than last year and getting results for that. However I'd like to point out 2 situations which I can't figure out.

1) Langdon and Begin pickups. Haven't we got enough with those waiver pickups that look good for 20 games and end up in Hamilton 6 months later. Dwyer and Lindsay are the most recent examples that
come to my mind. Ok we need a goon and Dwyer/Blouin were no solution, so maybe Langdon will turn out to be a good patch. But what is more useless on a 20 man roster than a 4th line center ? Who cares about Begin. He was not even able to play for Calgary and Buffalo, that should say enough. Couldn't we just use those 8-10 minutes of icetime to prepare Higgins ? He was looking good in the 2 games he played. Personnally, I prefer a top prospect like Higgins to get 10 min. NHL icetime than 20 min. AHL icetime.
Langdon and Begin both fill roles that we were missing. So far, I have loved Begin on the 4th line. He hits and provides a spark to the team. Just because he was unwanted by Buffalo and Calgary doesn't mean he's a bad player. That's flawed logic. We dumped Robidas and he got picked up by Dallas and has been playing every game for them.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever keeping Higgins to play 10 mintues or less a game. I would much rather have top 6 time in Hamilton. He needs to develop his skills, and you can't do that by getting the odd shift on the 4th line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
2) No-future man, Bouillon. Another loveable useless player a la Petrov. What was the point of giving him a contract this summer and send Dykhuis and Traverse to Hamilton. All 3 are just fringe players we couldn't care less about, the ideal press-box watchers. 2 were enough, why 3 ? And when it comes to giving icetime to one of those over a top prospect like Hainsey then I get sick. How do you want your team to progress when you give icetime to Bouillon ? The new defensive system of Julien and good play of our core (Markov/Souray/Rivet/Brisebois) should be enough to give us the security needed to insert a rookie in the lineup. The Quintal vs Komi situation I can understand, but Bouillon vs Hainsey ... come on !!! I just read the ESPN article about their 2 rookie defensemen (Martin and ???). Talk about an organization that takes their reponsisbilities.

That's all I had to rant about ... for now :p
Are you saying you'd rather have Dykhuis or Traverse over the Cube? I think that's a first my friend.

Bouillon provides us with some depth on the blue line as its inevitable someone is going to get hurt over the course of the season. While I would like to see Hainsey get more starts, I think it's good to rotate Bouillon in every so often. It's also hard to change your lineup when the team is playing so well.

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10-23-2003, 05:17 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber
Are you saying you'd rather have Dykhuis or Traverse over the Cube? I think that's a first my friend.

Bouillon provides us with some depth on the blue line as its inevitable someone is going to get hurt over the course of the season. While I would like to see Hainsey get more starts, I think it's good to rotate Bouillon in every so often. It's also hard to change your lineup when the team is playing so well.
All I'm saying is that Hainsey should play over Bouillon/Traverse/Dykhuis, not because he's the best of the 4 now but because he's the future while the others have none. Then the question would become who is the 7th dman and sits in press box waiting for an injury ? My answer would then be I don't care between Bouillon and Dykhuis as long as it's not Traverse.

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10-23-2003, 05:51 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
All I'm saying is that Hainsey should play over Bouillon/Traverse/Dykhuis, not because he's the best of the 4 now but because he's the future while the others have none. Then the question would become who is the 7th dman and sits in press box waiting for an injury ? My answer would then be I don't care between Bouillon and Dykhuis as long as it's not Traverse.
...because he's the future while the others have none.
I'm sorry, Bouillon is still young have at least 7 good years in front of him. Hainsey is suppose to be a future star. They say that from a lot of prospect players, nobody knows what Hainsey will become in 3 years. But right now i'm very comfortable with Hainsey and Bouillon alternate the 6th D spot. Hainsey get NHL ice time, it's ok.

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10-23-2003, 06:19 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
He wasn't unwanted in Buffalo, he had never played a game in Buffalo he just arrived. He had a great game and fans were pissed when i went to their boards, about losing that guy, and losing him for nothing on top of it.
Sure their board may have wanted him, but if the Sabres really wanted to keep him they would have protected him.

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Old
10-23-2003, 07:22 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
All I'm saying is that Hainsey should play over Bouillon/Traverse/Dykhuis, not because he's the best of the 4 now but because he's the future while the others have none. Then the question would become who is the 7th dman and sits in press box waiting for an injury ? My answer would then be I don't care between Bouillon and Dykhuis as long as it's not Traverse.

YOU my good man are bang on period. We are one of the worst organization in this league in terms of developing players . I hear you, with our top 4 dman in place now,Hainsey had to be a small piece of the puzzle , not a top 4 core players yet. For &*$# sakes let him play. I know sometimes they need time, sometimes you don`t just hand a job to them right away, but what the hell do our kids have to do to get a shot. You are 100% CORRECT, unless there is an internal issue that we don`t know about, Bouillion is nothing but a 6th , 7th dman period. He
will never be a top 4 dman. We waste 4 mil on Mckay, for a fourth line
past his prime player when we had Ward for 1/4 his salary to play 10 minuites a night. Now we are squacking about HOSSA not producing, or
Ribs not being a quality centreman for the long haul, leave them alone and let them play in roles they should be in. Who the hell is standing in their way. If we have to sit out an AUDETTE, JUNEAU,DACKELL, SUNDSTROM to develop a kid do it, these guys are not coming back , and will never be core players with us. I can understand if we said, bring up perez,higgins,pleks,ryder,balej,komi,hainsey, and beauchemin, and put the forwards on the top 2 lines and make the dman your top 3,
now you are asking for trouble and failure. There is no excuse not
slowly bring up a kid and move him into your system . IF you are Colorado, Philly, Dallas, that have deep teams fine, wait your turn, but hell even these teams have phased in Pitkanen, OTT,WILLIAMS,HINOTE,
KAPANEN, etc.. We have missed the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years, the kids are what will break or make us solid in 2-3 years, these washed up vets will be gone, we need an infusion, Ryder looks great now, we need more success stories, but if we constantly don`t play them in favour of a bit player it is ridiculous. The bruins who I can`t stand is playing bergeron on a solid line and he is responding, they told berard to stay home because Jillson needs to develop, and so far has plyed well,
Boynton is a top 3 dman for them , the point is they play their kids.
FOUMANCHOU BANG ON ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

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Old
10-23-2003, 07:25 AM
  #9
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I can't see throwing in the adjective "moronic" because Gainey and Julien don't do what the poster wants them to do. I don't see any signs of feeblemindedness in them.

I also disagree with the idea of playing young players at the NHL level just because they're young. Pitkanen is probably better than any prospect in the Habs organization and has earned his place on the Flyers. Bergeron made the Bruins because of his play in the preseason, but believe me the Bruins weren't expecting it. The Habs aren't playing Komisarek, Higgins, Perezhogin, Plekanec, and the others because they don't think they proved they're ready. The Habs want to win, not run a development camp at the NHL level. That's what they have Hamilton for. By the way, the Bulldogs aren't doing so well.

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10-23-2003, 07:31 AM
  #10
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begin is very usefull to us
he's a pest to play against which is what we need, as for langdon, he's just a big guy who will probably only play against bigger teams or events like that

i've always liked bouillon but up until now, his career is not going anywhere, i would put hainsey in the lineup as well, he hasn't played too bad yet this year

i would love to see komo too but quintal is a veteran and they would not sit him and put a rookie in

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10-23-2003, 07:50 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill pickles
Well I'd first like to say that you're missing the connection between sending Traverse and Dykhuis down and the consistently good play of the Habs this season. They weren't giving it their all, and it obviously sent a message to the rest of the Habs.

In terms of ability, Bouillion is slightly better than Traverse but much tougher and has twice the heart. He may be small but he's a tough bugger, which is what we've been lacking on the blueline. Makes perfect sense to me.

The Habs' forwards have been playing tougher as Juneau, Dacks and Sundstrom should be aware they could lose their spots to the afformentioned Begin and Langdon.

Why Langdon? Why not? He's the toughest inforcer we've had in years. As for Begin, never watched him play, though he seems to inject some much needed energy and scored the other night to boot.

In short, I'm fine with going through waiver wire players and recycling 4th liners. We've had pretty good success acquiring guys making less than $2 mil(Gilmore, Juneau, Dackell, Sundstrom, Kilger, Dwyer etc. have all made great contributions). Let's not forget the massive amount of injuries the Habs incurred about 3 seasons ago! Better to pick someone up for free than to trade for a lazy star.

Edit: As for Higgins' icetime, he's never actually played in the AHL...so it would be a benefit for him to see 20 mins a game. He'd surely pick up a lot of experience on Svitov's wing!
They've all made "great" contributions?????

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Old
10-23-2003, 08:15 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
...because he's the future while the others have none.
I'm sorry, Bouillon is still young have at least 7 good years in front of him. Hainsey is suppose to be a future star. They say that from a lot of prospect players, nobody knows what Hainsey will become in 3 years. But right now i'm very comfortable with Hainsey and Bouillon alternate the 6th D spot. Hainsey get NHL ice time, it's ok.

Bouillon passed through waivers and nobody wanted him for free. He is a fine No. 7 who can fill in and be the No. 6.

Hainsey may or may not be a No. 1-4. Right now he doesn't have to be. He can be the No. 6. He played well in the first four games and did nothing that waranted demotion to the press box.

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10-23-2003, 08:31 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman
YOU my good man are bang on period. We are one of the worst organization in this league in terms of developing players . ...

the point is they play their kids.
FOUMANCHOU BANG ON ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
I have no idea what your getting so excited about. How are we not playing our kids? Who else do you propose should be playing?

Ribs
Hossa
Ryder
Ward
Hainsey
Garon
There's 6 relative rookies in our lineup right now, and 3 of them top 6 forwards. To me this is playing the kids.

As I said before I would like to see Hainsey get more starts, but bringing him along slowly isn't the worst thing in the world. We brought Markov in slow and it worked out fine for him.

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10-23-2003, 08:58 AM
  #14
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Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

Down this road, that never seems to end,
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So if you want to join me for a while
Just grab your hat, come travel light - that's hobo style.

Maybe tomorrow, I'll want settle down,
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So if you want to join me for a while
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Instrumental Bridge

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There's a world, that's waiting to unfold,
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We've journey'd far but, you know it won't be long,
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Old
10-23-2003, 09:11 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Actually many Buffalo fans were pissed when they heard montreal picked him up off waivers(Begin) because he was playing very well in camp and in some pre-season games before he hurt his shoulder. He was destined to play a 4th line agitator role there, how can you overlook his grit and determination?

The thing about Langdon is that he's a proven fighter, he's a fearless fighter, a true heavyweight and he was a fan favourite in Vancouver. He wins alot more then he loses and has been touted the best 2nd half fighter in the NHL.

One thing about Bouillon, he's all heart, all 5ft8 200lbs. He's a character guy, he plays with intensity(usually) and pretty damn fearless out there dispite his size. When he hits you would never know he's that small. Gainey likes Bouillon, plain and simple, he's a fast, solid hard hitting defensemen and he's giving him a chance because he likes what he sees, Bouillon even has some offensive potenial.

Oh by the way.. all these guys, Langdon, Begin, and Bouillon are character guys, guys that lift your teams spirit up, guys that get you motivated and you can never have too many of those in the dressing room.

Oh yeah, and the way you talk about Begin you'd think he's some sort of veteran old man, he's only a 25yr old kid.
nice comments

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10-23-2003, 09:24 AM
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I love these thread titles. All we all going tabloid ? Did you ever wonder who writes the newspaper headlines. I saw these 2 in the last little while.

"Redskins chop Woodcock." [no comment req'd.]

"Tiger attacks Las Vegas star." [referring to an actual tiger attack on a magician. I thought maybe Tiger Woods dropped the gloves with Wayne Newton or Celine Dion. ]

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10-23-2003, 09:25 AM
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"Redskins chop Woodcock."
Thanks, made my day.

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10-23-2003, 02:09 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
First, I'd like to say that me too I'm glad to see the Habs putting more consistent efforts than last year and getting results for that. However I'd like to point out 2 situations which I can't figure out.

1) Langdon and Begin pickups. Haven't we got enough with those waiver pickups that look good for 20 games and end up in Hamilton 6 months later. Dwyer and Lindsay are the most recent examples that
come to my mind. Ok we need a goon and Dwyer/Blouin were no solution, so maybe Langdon will turn out to be a good patch. But what is more useless on a 20 man roster than a 4th line center ? Who cares about Begin. He was not even able to play for Calgary and Buffalo, that should say enough. Couldn't we just use those 8-10 minutes of icetime to prepare Higgins ? He was looking good in the 2 games he played. Personnally, I prefer a top prospect like Higgins to get 10 min. NHL icetime than 20 min. AHL icetime.

2) No-future man, Bouillon. Another loveable useless player a la Petrov. What was the point of giving him a contract this summer and send Dykhuis and Traverse to Hamilton. All 3 are just fringe players we couldn't care less about, the ideal press-box watchers. 2 were enough, why 3 ? And when it comes to giving icetime to one of those over a top prospect like Hainsey then I get sick. How do you want your team to progress when you give icetime to Bouillon ? The new defensive system of Julien and good play of our core (Markov/Souray/Rivet/Brisebois) should be enough to give us the security needed to insert a rookie in the lineup. The Quintal vs Komi situation I can understand, but Bouillon vs Hainsey ... come on !!! I just read the ESPN article about their 2 rookie defensemen (Martin and ???). Talk about an organization that takes their reponsisbilities.

That's all I had to rant about ... for now :p
I can't believe that out of all the flaws this organization has had, you decide to prove your point by discussing the 7th defenseman and 12th and 13th forwards.

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10-23-2003, 09:11 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scosar
Bouillon passed through waivers and nobody wanted him for free. He is a fine No. 7 who can fill in and be the No. 6.

Hainsey may or may not be a No. 1-4. Right now he doesn't have to be. He can be the No. 6. He played well in the first four games and did nothing that waranted demotion to the press box.
that's right , the coach had to give some ice time to Bouillon in order to keep is no7 d-man happy . Traverse and Dhykuis were liability .... at least Bouillon can get the job done with his ''little something'' .

IMO Hainsey is the official 6th right now , +1 tonight i think and he played a good overall game .

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10-23-2003, 09:37 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
1) Langdon and Begin pickups. Who cares about Begin. He was not even able to play for Calgary and Buffalo, that should say enough. Couldn't we just use those 8-10 minutes of icetime to prepare Higgins ? He was looking good in the 2 games he played. Personnally, I prefer a top prospect like Higgins to get 10 min. NHL icetime than 20 min. AHL icetime.
I think you are really missing the point. Langdon and Begin were picked up for a very obvious reason --- They make the team better, and the fill a void in the club, a void that the organization doesn't have any suitable candidates for. Dwyer can be slotted in as a fighter, but not as a enforcer, simply because he doesn't intimidate. Langdon does. For a small team that can be pushed around, Langdon is great.

As for how this effects Higgins, I'm sort of baffled by your argument.

Higgins is not now, nor is slated to be, a checking line center. I don't quite get how a young player getting just 8 minutes of ice time a night playing a role he's not suited for is considered beneficial to you. At his age, Higgins should be playing monster minutes and seeing major powerplay time. That wouldn't happen in Montreal.

Make no mistake, rebuilding or not, the Canadiens aren't a developmental club, they are an NHL franchise. The farm club is for developing players, and sending Higgins their is the right move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fumanchou
2) No-future man, Bouillon. Another loveable useless player a la Petrov. What was the point of giving him a contract this summer and send Dykhuis and Traverse to Hamilton. All 3 are just fringe players we couldn't care less about, the ideal press-box watchers. 2 were enough, why 3 ? And when it comes to giving icetime to one of those over a top prospect like Hainsey then I get sick. How do you want your team to progress when you give icetime to Bouillon ? The new defensive system of Julien and good play of our core (Markov/Souray/Rivet/Brisebois) should be enough to give us the security needed to insert a rookie in the lineup. The Quintal vs Komi situation I can understand, but Bouillon vs Hainsey ... come on !!! I just read the ESPN article about their 2 rookie defensemen (Martin and ???). Talk about an organization that takes their reponsisbilities.
First of all, it's very premature to rant about Bouillon over Ron Hainsey. What makes you think he's ahead of Hainsey on the depth chart? Hainsey played tonight over Bouillon, so what? Either way, Hainsey is accountable. If he plays well, great he's in the lineup. If not, he knows that there are players breathing down his neck. It's good. Competition is good. Accountability is good. As for the New Jersey example, what other option do they have? After losing Tverdovsky and Daneyko, their organization took a major hit to their depth. They were so desperate they signed the 40 year old Tommy Albelin. They don't have players like Dykhuis or Traverse in the minors either. As sad as that is.

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