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Prout to NJ for Kyle Quincey

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Old
03-02-2017, 08:26 AM
  #76
Nanabijou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Unless you expect GMs to be perfect, I'm not sure how recovering from mistakes can be viewed as a bad thing.

Maybe there are just too many perfectionists around here.

Quote:
"I believe we all make mistakes in this business and you have to move on from the mistakes,"
Scott Howson, after the Filatov trade (https://www.nhl.com/news/howson-admi...latov/c-567353).


Just like in golf, it's all about how big the mistakes are and how good the subsequent recovery shot is. Jarmo salvaged a par from the Prout contract.

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Old
03-02-2017, 08:27 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Unless you expect GMs to be perfect, I'm not sure how recovering from mistakes can be viewed as a bad thing.

Maybe there are just too many perfectionists around here.
Perfect, no.

But the day Prout was signed this board of know-nothings groaned. Same with the day Boll was signed. And behold, they've both been let go. You'd think Jarmo would have known better.

They also realized their mistake switching Mackenzie for Campbell - again it's not just hindsight, it was a mistake on day one.

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03-02-2017, 08:31 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Perfect, no.

But the day Prout was signed this board of know-nothings groaned. Same with the day Boll was signed. And behold, they've both been let go. You'd think Jarmo would have known better.

They also realized their mistake switching Mackenzie for Campbell - again it's not just hindsight, it was a mistake on day one.
But if these mistakes are so easily fixed, and they've caused essentially zero lasting damage, then what's the big deal?

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03-02-2017, 08:45 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
But if these mistakes are so easily fixed, and they've caused essentially zero lasting damage, then what's the big deal?
it isn't a big deal except that most of this board even wouldn't have made those deals to begin with.

The real catch is just that boneheaded mistakes being corrected shouldn't deserve high praise. That's it. Not that fixing them isn't good and has been cost free.

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03-02-2017, 08:52 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by cslebn View Post
it isn't a big deal except that most of this board even wouldn't have made those deals to begin with.

The real catch is just that boneheaded mistakes being corrected shouldn't deserve high praise. That's it. Not that fixing them isn't good and has been cost free.
Except most of this board doesn't have all the facts.

I guess I'm not offering high praise (I'm at work ) but I do think that the ability to quickly/easily/adverb recover from inevitable mistakes is a vital quality of a good GM.

So, helluva decent job you've done Jarmo [in regard to committing minor mistakes and recovering from them]!

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03-02-2017, 09:08 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
But if these mistakes are so easily fixed, and they've caused essentially zero lasting damage, then what's the big deal?
None, other than the fact we had to sit through last year watching Prout, Boll, and Campbell stinking up the ice. That will always scar my soul.

The point is it's not really praiseworthy.

Oh, and while we're doling out credit, let's not forget it's Howson's excellent deep drafting that has allowed Jarmo to replace bad veterans with the likes of Anderson, Sedlak, and okay maybe that's it.

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03-02-2017, 09:10 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
None, other than the fact we had to sit through last year watching Prout, Boll, and Campbell stinking up the ice. That will always scar my soul.

The point is it's not really praiseworthy.

Oh, and while we're doling out credit, let's not forget it's Howson's excellent deep drafting that has allowed Jarmo to replace bad veterans with the likes of Anderson, Sedlak, and okay maybe that's it.
Well, there's a big difference between MB's dad and mine. Which of our dads gets to choose what is and isn't praiseworthy?

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03-02-2017, 09:15 AM
  #83
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There is one thing that I keep seeing in every deal that Jarmo does. I don't care if its trade, or buyout, or drafting. Every time Jarmo takes a player off this roster, and puts a new player in his place, it seems the common denominator is an increase in speed.

About the only transaction that didn't fit was Hartnell for Umberger. Both sides, at the time, said they got the faster player. But now 2.80 seasons after that deal, I think it is fairly obvious who got the better player - speed aside.

At the time, Umberger had 3 years remaining on his contract and Hartnell had 5 years left. Umberger skated 2 seasons and had the last year bought out. Based upon what I have seen Hartnell should be able to be productive for the next two seasons. Even if Hartnell is kept and paid, he will be absolutely invaluable when the playoffs start. My guess is that next month we will see what "veteran presence" is all about.

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Old
03-02-2017, 09:37 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Well, there's a big difference between MB's dad and mine. Which of our dads gets to choose what is and isn't praiseworthy?
I could ask mine; I work in the same lab as him so he's easy to reach.

EDIT: He's busy with something high-priority at the moment; I'll check later.

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03-02-2017, 10:04 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Scott Howson, after the Filatov trade (https://www.nhl.com/news/howson-admi...latov/c-567353).


Just like in golf, it's all about how big the mistakes are and how good the subsequent recovery shot is. Jarmo salvaged a par from the Prout contract.
To play devil's advocate, though, we (on this board) seemed pretty much aware of what kind of players Prout and Boll were before their extensions. Immediately following their extensions, there was a bit of consternation. If posters were confident enough to call these moves mistakes the moment they were made, shouldn't Jarmo have known better and avoided those mistakes?

The difference between Prout and Filatov is that nobody knew or could foresee Filatov's bust prior to the draft. Whereas with Prout the reaction was "what do they see in Prout??" when Filatov was drafted the consensus was that he would almost certainly be a future star.

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Old
03-02-2017, 10:24 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
To play devil's advocate, though, we (on this board) seemed pretty much aware of what kind of players Prout and Boll were before their extensions.
Now it is Prout who will be playing "Devils Advocate".

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03-02-2017, 10:40 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
To play devil's advocate, though, we (on this board) seemed pretty much aware of what kind of players Prout and Boll were before their extensions. Immediately following their extensions, there was a bit of consternation. If posters were confident enough to call these moves mistakes the moment they were made, shouldn't Jarmo have known better and avoided those mistakes?

The difference between Prout and Filatov is that nobody knew or could foresee Filatov's bust prior to the draft. Whereas with Prout the reaction was "what do they see in Prout??" when Filatov was drafted the consensus was that he would almost certainly be a future star.
I wasn't providing that quote to compare Filatov and Prout or to rag on Howson. I really liked that quote then and now because it is an honest admission that GM's are going to make mistakes. It's important to own them, learn from them and find ways to undo then when possible.

Jarmo seemed to have a disproportionate affection early on for heavy players that could drop the gloves when needed. It looks like he's changed his views on that, for the better. Guys like Nuti fit Torts' current style better than Prout.

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Old
03-02-2017, 10:42 AM
  #88
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Although i believe Prout is one of the worst defenceman in the current NHL nonetheless wish him all the best.

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Old
03-02-2017, 11:02 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by The Old Guy View Post
There is one thing that I keep seeing in every deal that Jarmo does. I don't care if its trade, or buyout, or drafting. Every time Jarmo takes a player off this roster, and puts a new player in his place, it seems the common denominator is an increase in speed.

About the only transaction that didn't fit was Hartnell for Umberger. Both sides, at the time, said they got the faster player. But now 2.80 seasons after that deal, I think it is fairly obvious who got the better player - speed aside.

At the time, Umberger had 3 years remaining on his contract and Hartnell had 5 years left. Umberger skated 2 seasons and had the last year bought out. Based upon what I have seen Hartnell should be able to be productive for the next two seasons. Even if Hartnell is kept and paid, he will be absolutely invaluable when the playoffs start. My guess is that next month we will see what "veteran presence" is all about.
I think he does a good job scouting for hockey sense and vision.

But in either case it's a limited sample full of exceptions. He chose to extend Prout and Boll and to cut Mackenzie and Letestu. What does that say about his affection for speed or hockey sense?

Edit: just rethinking this a bit - I'd say Jarmo made the mistake in his early years of de-prioritizing depth (remember "flexibility"). I think the success this year of the Jackets, the Rangers, and the Wild has taught a lot of people how important 4th lines are. In a league full of parity, the difference between an average team and a high end team seems to be a great fourth line. Jarmo didn't have to sign guys to intentionally assemble it this year - it just emerged from the success of both Howson and Jarmo's drafting.


Last edited by major major: 03-02-2017 at 11:23 AM.
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03-02-2017, 11:13 AM
  #90
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I have always been amazed how much whipping Prout takes for a bottom pairing, 7th, or 8th dman. You'd think he was a 1st round bust based on the abuse he has taken on the boards over the last few seasons.

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03-02-2017, 11:48 AM
  #91
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I hope that, at some point, Quincey and Jones are on the same pair.

Get it...? Get it?


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03-02-2017, 01:16 PM
  #92
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I hope that, at some point, Quincey and Jones are on the same pair.

Get it...? Get it?

Not to mention the musician Quincy Jones.

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03-02-2017, 01:21 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I have always been amazed how much whipping Prout takes for a bottom pairing, 7th, or 8th dman. You'd think he was a 1st round bust based on the abuse he has taken on the boards over the last few seasons.
and he was a sixth round pick. You're lucky if one of your sixth rounders ever plays in the NHL.


Ignore Cam Atkinson. He's an exception.

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03-02-2017, 01:32 PM
  #94
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and he was a sixth round pick. You're lucky if one of your sixth rounders ever plays in the NHL.
Except in this scenario we'd be luckier if he didn't.

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03-02-2017, 02:47 PM
  #95
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For anyone lamenting the loss of physicality from Prout. Quincey does have a physical component to his game when hes motivated (As in he'll actually lay people out). Hes that guy who has a good all around tool set without anything that stands out as elite or completely horrible.

The biggest problem with Quincey is his decision making when hes trying to be to cute with the puck, and it hurts a hell of a lot more when hes facing more difficult competition. Both Detroit and Colorado used him on the 2nd pairing and higher for most of his time and that was infuriating (Although I enjoyed it with Detroit as an Avs fan).

He should be a really solid edition if hes kept to the bottom pairing, or used sparingly on the second pair for injuries. Playing next to Murray should cover for some of his mistakes in the neutral zone.

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03-02-2017, 02:50 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
For anyone lamenting the loss of physicality from Prout. Quincey does have a physical component to his game when hes motivated (As in he'll actually lay people out). Hes that guy who has a good all around tool set without anything that stands out as elite or completely horrible.

The biggest problem with Quincey is his decision making when hes trying to be to cute with the puck, and it hurts a hell of a lot more when hes facing more difficult competition. Both Detroit and Colorado used him on the 2nd pairing and higher for most of his time and that was infuriating (Although I enjoyed it with Detroit as an Avs fan).

He should be a really solid edition if hes kept to the bottom pairing, or used sparingly on the second pair for injuries. Playing next to Murray should cover for some of his mistakes in the neutral zone.
That's whay I'm hoping for. Having Jones, Werenski, Murray, Johnson and Savard capable of playing heavy minutes should help shelter him some

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03-02-2017, 02:56 PM
  #97
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That's whay I'm hoping for. Having Jones, Werenski, Murray, Johnson and Savard capable of playing heavy minutes should help shelter him some
Now lets hope he does not go out and make a bunch of stupid pinches, and turnovers because hes all excited about being on a playoff team. This first game might be an adventure lol. Hopefully he keeps it simple and channels that energy into some clean hits instead.

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03-02-2017, 03:09 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Now lets hope he does not go out and make a bunch of stupid pinches, and turnovers because hes all excited about being on a playoff team. This first game might be an adventure lol. Hopefully he keeps it simple and channels that energy into some clean hits instead.
"So, I hear you guys are cool with dmen taking chances."


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03-02-2017, 03:13 PM
  #99
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"So, I hear you guys are cool with dmen taking chances."

It'd be a lot cooler if you did



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03-02-2017, 03:20 PM
  #100
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"So, I hear you guys are cool with dmen taking chances."

Lmao, the unfounded swagger of Matthew McConaughey definitely fits with how I view Quincey. Nice one

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