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Manitoba Moose 2016-2017 Season (Part VII)

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03-06-2017, 06:02 AM
  #76
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How do they not call up Connor now? This is the hottest stretch we've seen from any of our prospects with the Moose/Caps so far. Meanwhile Chris *** Thorburn is on pace to play 60+ games this year.

I don't understand this organization.
He gets to this level of play by being sent down, learning how to adjust, then applying it. Unless we have something open in the top 6, maybe top 9, you don't bring him up to fill Thorbs 7 mins a night.

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03-06-2017, 06:05 AM
  #77
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He will get his chance soon enough. For now it looks like half a year of AHL was exactly what was in his best interest.
Yea it's pretty crazy to see a kid struggle then adapt. I am mindful of the fact he is a scorer and scorers have hot streaks but I think past that he is getting comfortable playing in the AHL and he is figuring out how to exploit the other team with his arsenal of weapons. I have to admit I am highlight watching with him right now so for those that are watching the actual games how is his defensive side coming along?

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03-06-2017, 06:58 AM
  #78
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He gets to this level of play by being sent down, learning how to adjust, then applying it. Unless we have something open in the top 6, maybe top 9, you don't bring him up to fill Thorbs 7 mins a night.
100% agree. The kid is growing by leaps and bounds right now. No doubt he is playing with renewed confidence. No room currently in the top 9. And it wouldn't make sense for him to come up for a handful of minutes a night on the 4th line.

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03-06-2017, 07:14 AM
  #79
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Yea it's pretty crazy to see a kid struggle then adapt. I am mindful of the fact he is a scorer and scorers have hot streaks but I think past that he is getting comfortable playing in the AHL and he is figuring out how to exploit the other team with his arsenal of weapons. I have to admit I am highlight watching with him right now so for those that are watching the actual games how is his defensive side coming along?
It's much better than when he first got sent down. He's better positioned in his own end, his battle level is also higher. He also manages the puck much better. In the beginning he'd try to get to fancy and cough up turnovers.

Offensively he's starting to go hard into the high danger zones quite frequently so it's no real surprise that the points are now coming for him. It's pretty impressive how much better his all around game has become since when he first went down.

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03-06-2017, 12:24 PM
  #80
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03-06-2017, 12:42 PM
  #81
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Would more ahl help petan score?

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03-06-2017, 12:53 PM
  #82
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Would more ahl help petan score?
Of course it would... same way it helped Connor rebuild after Maurice bungled his NHL stint.

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03-06-2017, 01:07 PM
  #83
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Of course it would... same way it helped Connor rebuild after Maurice bungled his NHL stint.
I think Connor bungled his NHL stint. Maurice played him on every line and gave him PP time. He was definitely given a chance to shine. He just wasn't ready for the show.

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03-06-2017, 02:08 PM
  #84
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Good for him!

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03-06-2017, 02:53 PM
  #85
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I think Connor bungled his NHL stint. Maurice played him on every line and gave him PP time. He was definitely given a chance to shine. He just wasn't ready for the show.
Agreed. Connor had a few bright moments (like the backhanded sauce to assist on the first comeback of the year) but predominantly, he was not astounding in his first NHL run. Looks like he's catching on though... If the next time he comes up he stops producing, I'd put THAT one on Maurice.

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03-06-2017, 03:59 PM
  #86
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Would more ahl help petan score?
honestly i'm not sure what some of you think the AHL does for a player. it's not some magical league that gives all prospects a +5 special development boost or something.

petan is fully developed and ready to contribute in the NHL. the only issue is his usage by the bone headed coach. sending him to light up the AHL now would be more than pointless.

the only reason a prospect should absolutely spend time in the minors is when they are lacking some obvious physical/ mental tools that need to be made up for in some other ways such as learning to play a different style game to make up for these deficiencies (while still improving upon said physical/mental tools) such as a fringe top 6 talent with poor IQ, eg. Virtanen - who needs to work on transitioning the way he will be able to play in the pros, from a scorer in juniors to either a grinder (even though i don't agree with this; it's still a way to get yourself onto a coach like maurice/willie D's roster) or anything in between provided he gets better in his areas of weakness ..which is a slim chance TBH since it's hard to improve your game (drastically enough to make a difference for these types of players) after a certain point.

there is a difference between being "not ready" for the NHL because you are simply not good enough, and because you simply need to adjust to the pro game (different systems, different style, bigger/stronger competition) if you are coming from college/junior. this adjustment is especially important for physically immature or small guys such as connor and petan.

but everyone goes through it. laine went through it, as did matthews marner werenski etc.but they all already had the tools to succeed once they figured it out. connor was in the process of figuring it out with the jets.

he had to do the same adjusting in the AHL that he was doing in the NHL. he was still playing against men and he was still learning the same systems and style of pro hockey, therefore he would have figured it out himself like he has in the A, had he stayed in the NHL.

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03-06-2017, 06:06 PM
  #87
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It's much better than when he first got sent down. He's better positioned in his own end, his battle level is also higher. He also manages the puck much better. In the beginning he'd try to get to fancy and cough up turnovers.

Offensively he's starting to go hard into the high danger zones quite frequently so it's no real surprise that the points are now coming for him. It's pretty impressive how much better his all around game has become since when he first went down.
Thanks... good to hear!!

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03-06-2017, 06:18 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by portamoral View Post
honestly i'm not sure what some of you think the AHL does for a player. it's not some magical league that gives all prospects a +5 special development boost or something.

petan is fully developed and ready to contribute in the NHL. the only issue is his usage by the bone headed coach. sending him to light up the AHL now would be more than pointless.

the only reason a prospect should absolutely spend time in the minors is when they are lacking some obvious physical/ mental tools that need to be made up for in some other ways such as learning to play a different style game to make up for these deficiencies (while still improving upon said physical/mental tools) such as a fringe top 6 talent with poor IQ, eg. Virtanen - who needs to work on transitioning the way he will be able to play in the pros, from a scorer in juniors to either a grinder (even though i don't agree with this; it's still a way to get yourself onto a coach like maurice/willie D's roster) or anything in between provided he gets better in his areas of weakness ..which is a slim chance TBH since it's hard to improve your game (drastically enough to make a difference for these types of players) after a certain point.

there is a difference between being "not ready" for the NHL because you are simply not good enough, and because you simply need to adjust to the pro game (different systems, different style, bigger/stronger competition) if you are coming from college/junior. this adjustment is especially important for physically immature or small guys such as connor and petan.

but everyone goes through it. laine went through it, as did matthews marner werenski etc.but they all already had the tools to succeed once they figured it out. connor was in the process of figuring it out with the jets.

he had to do the same adjusting in the AHL that he was doing in the NHL. he was still playing against men and he was still learning the same systems and style of pro hockey, therefore he would have figured it out himself like he has in the A, had he stayed in the NHL.
I generally agree with this. I think you have ignored the aspect of a young player getting a chance to 'figure it out' under a little less pressure and against weaker competition. Some might get it in the AHL and then be ready to move up who might never have been able to get there under the higher stress level of the NHL. It isn't just a matter of 'figure it out' in one place or do it in the other with no difference.

Applied to Petan, I think his confidence might benefit from another stint in the A just because he has been having such extended bad puck luck. I don't see time in the PB doing him any good at all but who knows? Sometimes players do benefit from watching for a while.

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03-07-2017, 03:02 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by yukonfloyd View Post
Of course it would... same way it helped Connor rebuild after Maurice bungled his NHL stint.
Explain this to me?

How does Maurice prevent ot bungle Connor from successfully entering the NHL right out of the gate?

Sometimes I read this forum, and I wonder why.

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03-07-2017, 03:07 PM
  #90
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I'm as big a fan of Connor as anyone, and I really think people are looking for faults where there are none. Connor wasn't ready to step right into the NHL this season. He needed time to get used to playing against adult pros who played a more physical style than he was used to.

I think he'll adapt and will be a difference maker offensively in the future, but I don't blame Maurice for Connor's lack of success in the NHL this season.

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03-07-2017, 03:14 PM
  #91
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I'm as big a fan of Connor as anyone, and I really think people are looking for faults where there are none. Connor wasn't ready to step right into the NHL this season. He needed time to get used to playing against adult pros who played a more physical style than he was used to.

I think he'll adapt and will be a difference maker offensively in the future, but I don't blame Maurice for Connor's lack of success in the NHL this season.
This is sensible, and accurate.

Blaming a coach because a 19 year old is not ready to make the leap to the NHL [?]

It takes on average 5 years to draft and develop a prospect, yet some blame a coach when this 5 year process does not occur in 2 years? [mod]


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03-07-2017, 03:25 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MrBoJangelz71 View Post
This is sensible, and accurate.

Blaming a coach because a 19 year old is not ready to make the leap to the NHL [?]

It takes on average 5 years to draft and develop a prospect, yet some blame a coach when this 5 year process does not occur in 2 years? [mod]
It's almost as if people forget guys like Scheifele and Morrissey both needed additional seasoning. It took Scheifele 2 additional years of junior before he was ready to play in the NHL (Had we had depth of any kind he may have been sent to the AHL for a half a season as he got off to a really slow start)

Morrissey needed 50 odd AHL games to transition his game and adapt to playing against pros.

Connor clearly wasn't ready earlier this year as he had holes in his game defensively and he also wasn't confident in his strength as he avoided traffic. 35 games playing huge minutes in the AHL has done wonders for both of those.

It's like some people think the AHL is a place for fringe prospects only, but that is not the case as a number of the games best players spent time their at the beginning of their careers.


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03-07-2017, 03:54 PM
  #93
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I'm as big a fan of Connor as anyone, and I really think people are looking for faults where there are none. Connor wasn't ready to step right into the NHL this season. He needed time to get used to playing against adult pros who played a more physical style than he was used to.

I think he'll adapt and will be a difference maker offensively in the future, but I don't blame Maurice for Connor's lack of success in the NHL this season.
100% agree he got a very fair shot but wasn't ready. The AHL didn't exactly hurt Morrissey so I am glad Kyle is working on his game as a pro with the Moose. Very important stage in his development and it appears to be going pretty well.

Maurice drives me crazy with some of his odd decisions but this isn't one of them.

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03-07-2017, 04:08 PM
  #94
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Not arguing whether Connor was ready or not... simply pointing out that burying him on the 4th line and then sitting him as a healthy scratch is kind of the definition of bungling.

Ehlers was given time to learn on the 3rd line and then blossomed in second half of season... Scheif 'over-developed' in AHL... both can work but Connor's NHL stint was a mess.

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03-07-2017, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by yukonfloyd View Post
Not arguing whether Connor was ready or not... simply pointing out that burying him on the 4th line and then sitting him as a healthy scratch is kind of the definition of bungling.

Ehlers was given time to learn on the 3rd line and then blossomed in second half of season... Scheif 'over-developed' in AHL... both can work but Connor's NHL stint was a mess.
Connor spent most of his time in the top 9 and even got some PP time IIRC. I think the first time he was scratched actually helped him, he scored his only goal the game after. His later stint as a healthy scratch was annoying, though. I'm pretty sure they already decided to send him to the minors but just delayed it. Could have been some teaching behind the scenes in that case. At any rate I think he was treated pretty fairly.

Ehlers was too good for junior and couldn't be sent to the AHL. To be honest Ehlers development was closer to being bungled because he was shackled to Thorburn for a significant amount of time and got almost no points.

I don't know what you're on about Scheifele. Do you mean he was developed in junior? He only spent time in the AHL when his season in Barrie was over. He just wasn't ready for the NHL and like Ehlers couldn't be sent to the AHL.

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03-07-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by yukonfloyd View Post
Not arguing whether Connor was ready or not... simply pointing out that burying him on the 4th line and then sitting him as a healthy scratch is kind of the definition of bungling.

Ehlers was given time to learn on the 3rd line and then blossomed in second half of season... Scheif 'over-developed' in AHL... both can work but Connor's NHL stint was a mess.
Ehlers wasn't eligible for the AHL so is a different story. Scheifele has yet to play a regular season game in the AHL. Connor did not spend his NHL time on the 4th line or healthy scratched. He was given every opportunity. When he wasn't able to take advantage of it he was sent down to develop. Where is the problem with that?


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03-07-2017, 05:36 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by yukonfloyd View Post
Not arguing whether Connor was ready or not... simply pointing out that burying him on the 4th line and then sitting him as a healthy scratch is kind of the definition of bungling.

Ehlers was given time to learn on the 3rd line and then blossomed in second half of season... Scheif 'over-developed' in AHL... both can work but Connor's NHL stint was a mess.
I think you are confusing Petan and Connor. Petan last season began on the 4th line.

I was at the season opener. Connor Little Laine was the way the season began. Perreault was his center immediately after Little got hurt.

That is hardly burying him on the 4th line. He did eventually work his way down the lineup including playing 4th line minutes. By that point he probably already would have been sent down if we weren't so injured.

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03-07-2017, 05:37 PM
  #98
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Connor spent most of his time in the top 9 and even got some PP time IIRC. I think the first time he was scratched actually helped him, he scored his only goal the game after. His later stint as a healthy scratch was annoying, though. I'm pretty sure they already decided to send him to the minors but just delayed it. Could have been some teaching behind the scenes in that case. At any rate I think he was treated pretty fairly.

Ehlers was too good for junior and couldn't be sent to the AHL. To be honest Ehlers development was closer to being bungled because he was shackled to Thorburn for a significant amount of time and got almost no points.

I don't know what you're on about Scheifele. Do you mean he was developed in junior? He only spent time in the AHL when his season in Barrie was over. He just wasn't ready for the NHL and like Ehlers couldn't be sent to the AHL.
Yes, I meant Barrie sorry... similar to Morrissey - folks were calling for them to be in the lineup a year earlier - but it seems to have worked

A lot of people had concerns with Ehlers role with Thorbs too but it seems to have worked, even if it didn't work out for the jets win-loss record that well. That's more of a question - why was Thorburn on the third line though...

Connor got opportunity early, then was scratched then came back on the 4th line getting almost no minutes, then was scratched again. I recall more than a few people wondering why he wasn't sent back earlier... he stayed with the club for sometime in a very reduced role.

Anyway, moot point, he's burning it up now. Get him in top six for next year.

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03-08-2017, 12:51 AM
  #99
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Yes, I meant Barrie sorry... similar to Morrissey - folks were calling for them to be in the lineup a year earlier - but it seems to have worked

A lot of people had concerns with Ehlers role with Thorbs too but it seems to have worked, even if it didn't work out for the jets win-loss record that well. That's more of a question - why was Thorburn on the third line though...

Connor got opportunity early, then was scratched then came back on the 4th line getting almost no minutes, then was scratched again. I recall more than a few people wondering why he wasn't sent back earlier... he stayed with the club for sometime in a very reduced role.

Anyway, moot point, he's burning it up now. Get him in top six for next year.
It worked? Really? In what way? Did it work by completely drying up the production of a gifted offensive player by achoring him to a sixth-line scrub? The only people it might have helped were gamblers playing the point spread. It certainly didn't help Ehlers or the Jets.

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03-08-2017, 08:43 AM
  #100
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It worked? Really? In what way? Did it work by completely drying up the production of a gifted offensive player by achoring him to a sixth-line scrub? The only people it might have helped were gamblers playing the point spread. It certainly didn't help Ehlers or the Jets.
It clearly has helped ehlers and the jets because ehlers became a bonafide top 6 winger.

Offense means nothing to a team/coach when they're trying to teach a young player defense.

Clearly giving ehlers a reduced role playing with a simplified player worked out.

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