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Manitoba Moose 2016-2017 Season (Part VII)

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Old
03-20-2017, 11:19 AM
  #201
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Oof. It's too bad about his season this year. I remember an interview with him a year or two ago where he said he was getting frustrated watching other guys get a couple games in the NHL (Chiarot, Melchiori) while he was here "waiting for his turn."
If those were his actual words, that screams entitlement. I would be seriously looking at getting him a ticket to Tulsa, and saving a bit of money by making it a one-way.

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03-20-2017, 11:24 AM
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If those were his actual words, that screams entitlement. I would be seriously looking at getting him a ticket to Tulsa, and saving a bit of money by making it a one-way.
Since Kichton is not on an ELC he cannot be assigned to Tulsa unless he agrees to it. That is not very likely.

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03-20-2017, 11:42 AM
  #203
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Since Kichton is not on an ELC he cannot be assigned to Tulsa unless he agrees to it. That is not very likely.
Damn rules! Fine, then I'll just complain about Chevy signing him to another contract.

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03-20-2017, 11:50 AM
  #204
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Damn rules! Fine, then I'll just complain about Chevy signing him to another contract.
Don't even bother. He was given 1 year, a kind of last chance contract. There will probably be a couple more of them this year but Kichton won't be one of them. He never improved his skating or his defensive play, which was terrible. Now he seems to have lost his offense too. His time is up.

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03-20-2017, 12:16 PM
  #205
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Don't even bother. He was given 1 year, a kind of last chance contract. There will probably be a couple more of them this year but Kichton won't be one of them. He never improved his skating or his defensive play, which was terrible. Now he seems to have lost his offense too. His time is up.
Looks like he is on his way to Europe ...

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03-20-2017, 12:19 PM
  #206
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Looks like he is on his way to Europe ...
Yeah, if you think his defensive zone coverage and poor skating are issues now...wait til he hits the big ice!

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03-20-2017, 12:32 PM
  #207
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Yeah, if you think his defensive zone coverage and poor skating are issues now...wait til he hits the big ice!
Maybe the Jets should have sent him to Europe 2-3 years ago. Force him to improve his skating. Do that and maybe his defensive zone play improves.

I'd say it is too late for him now at any rate. He was given a chance. Hasn't improved in 4 years in the AHL, coming 25 in June.

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03-20-2017, 04:21 PM
  #208
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Looks like he is on his way to Europe ...
When you call up Strait before you the writing seems to be on the wall pertaining to the Jets.

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03-21-2017, 11:14 AM
  #209
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Getting ready for callups?


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03-21-2017, 11:19 AM
  #210
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Connor and De Leo maybe? Or Connor and Roslovic?

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03-21-2017, 12:13 PM
  #211
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Connor and De Leo maybe? Or Connor and Roslovic?
Roslovic needs to get a look. It would be a bit unfair to call up any forward before Connor, considering his performance. Those are the two I would like to see called up.

I'm not all that bothered about retaining Calder eligibility for Connor, either. Let him play several games to get a good feel for the NHL speed again, and to see how he meshes with some of the top-6 forwards.

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03-21-2017, 12:14 PM
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Apparently Howden is injured long term, and with Lemieux out, perhaps these are just 2 roster moves because of that.

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03-21-2017, 01:07 PM
  #213
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Roslovic needs to get a look. It would be a bit unfair to call up any forward before Connor, considering his performance. Those are the two I would like to see called up.

I'm not all that bothered about retaining Calder eligibility for Connor, either. Let him play several games to get a good feel for the NHL speed again, and to see how he meshes with some of the top-6 forwards.
I don't particularly need to see those 2 at this time. TC is soon enough. Not that I would mind seeing them, just no need. I would like to see Lipon, Kosmachuk and even Olsen. They are all pending RFA's and decisions need to be made. Olsen is probably going to be dropped but if there is any doubt, give him a shot. Lipon and Kosmo are on the bubble and the decision might be a little harder. They looked good in their one callup this time last year but is that enough data for a decision?

Edit: All 3 are RH shots. We are not deep at RW. Lipon and Kosmo are the only RW prospects on the Moose and we only have 3 with the Jets (+ Thor). Other RW jobs are being filled by RC's or lefties on their off sides. So if all 3 are dropped (+ Thor) we are very light at RW system wide. We have 3 C's likely to move up to the Moose next year. Only Spacek is a right shot.


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03-21-2017, 01:53 PM
  #214
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Leave Connor and Roslovic in the AHL until the end of the year. They are better off playing big minutes and adapting their game to the pro level.

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03-21-2017, 02:24 PM
  #215
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What the story with the Moose defenseman who played I think 1 game and got a goal or assist and was promptly released. Forget his name, but I think his brother is in NHL.

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03-21-2017, 02:58 PM
  #216
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What the story with the Moose defenseman who played I think 1 game and got a goal or assist and was promptly released. Forget his name, but I think his brother is in NHL.
Nolan Zajac. Got a goal, was released. No idea the reasons behind it.

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03-21-2017, 03:36 PM
  #217
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Leave Connor and Roslovic in the AHL until the end of the year. They are better off playing big minutes and adapting their game to the pro level.
Or give them big minutes at the NHL level and start adapting to the NHL level.

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03-21-2017, 04:00 PM
  #218
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My vote would be have them play in the NHL while their confidence is high and hope that it carries over, then they know they're capable of playing in the NHL and what they need to work on to be more effective starting next year. No better time to make and learn from mistakes than at the end of a season when games are meaningless. No pressure, just learn and start to understand the game at this level.

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03-21-2017, 04:31 PM
  #219
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Nolan Zajac. Got a goal, was released. No idea the reasons behind it.
The Iowa Wild signed him to a PTO last week...maybe he'll catch on there.

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03-21-2017, 05:41 PM
  #220
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Other organizations have placed an emphasis on breeding a winning culture, while the Jets/Moose continue to toil with last place. I still don't understand why this organization continues to avoid winning is a development step - surround players like Roslovic, Connor with quality veterans, give the team some not pylons on defense to work with. If bringing in quality AHL veterans in pushes more fringe players down to Tulsa where they can play top 6 minutes then so be it. If the Jets think that Patrice Cormier and Brian Strait are "quality AHL veterans" then this organization has other very serious issues.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, and I've heard all the arguments against it (who cares about winning? let the kids play!"). It's been bothering me for the past few months.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...toms/99462638/
“We’ve got a good team, but there’s quite a few kids down there with a big chunk of the pie,” Hextall said. “They’re playing regular shifts, power play, penalty kill. That’s important. You don’t want to overload too much with veterans so that the kids get pushed down and don’t get in roles. There’s that fine line with handing it to them and making them earn it.”

Hextall credits Phantoms coach Scott Gordon with putting the players in those positions and in the proper timeframe.

“For me, when I was in juniors we didn’t make the playoffs the first couple years and for the young guys coming in it was tough because that was the norm,” Weal said. “When you come into a winning organization and go deep into the playoffs every year, that feels normal. This is how it should be. You shouldn’t be done in mid-April. It should be late June.”



This isn't hockey, but it is another sports organization that has placed an emphasis on winning. The Seattle Mariners.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/131957...minors-update/
Director of player development Andy McKay let it be known early that development in the minor leagues was not just about developing individuals. He believes the minor-league teams records are important because winning is important and that must be be taught as well.

“Learning how to win a baseball game is a skill,” McKay said. “Just like learning how to bunt is a skill. So learning how to play the game that gives you a better chance of winning, it is important because obviously that is what we are trying to do up here.”

“It’s the No. 1 skill you have got to learn: how to win a baseball game,” McKay said, “because obviously that is the only thing that matters up here.”

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03-21-2017, 05:48 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I don't particularly need to see those 2 at this time. TC is soon enough. Not that I would mind seeing them, just no need. I would like to see Lipon, Kosmachuk and even Olsen. They are all pending RFA's and decisions need to be made. Olsen is probably going to be dropped but if there is any doubt, give him a shot. Lipon and Kosmo are on the bubble and the decision might be a little harder. They looked good in their one callup this time last year but is that enough data for a decision?
i usually agree with your posts but am wondering what the heck ya talking about here.

Kosmachuk hasn't proven much at the AHL level. Lipon's a 4th liner maybe 5 years ago and has no role in today's NHL. is a good emergency call-up and likely nothing more.
Olsen?? not even sure why you'd suggest that.
They're all AHL cannon fodder. let them walk. they have next to no role in the Jets' future.
you give Connor and Roslo call-ups to give them a taste of the NHL. you consider giving De Leo as well, but i'd argue that he's an NHL long shot, so really, what are you acheiving by calling him up?

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03-21-2017, 06:07 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Deif View Post
Other organizations have placed an emphasis on breeding a winning culture, while the Jets/Moose continue to toil with last place. I still don't understand why this organization continues to avoid winning is a development step - surround players like Roslovic, Connor with quality veterans, give the team some not pylons on defense to work with. If bringing in quality AHL veterans in pushes more fringe players down to Tulsa where they can play top 6 minutes then so be it. If the Jets think that Patrice Cormier and Brian Strait are "quality AHL veterans" then this organization has other very serious issues.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, and I've heard all the arguments against it (who cares about winning? let the kids play!"). It's been bothering me for the past few months.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...toms/99462638/
“We’ve got a good team, but there’s quite a few kids down there with a big chunk of the pie,” Hextall said. “They’re playing regular shifts, power play, penalty kill. That’s important. You don’t want to overload too much with veterans so that the kids get pushed down and don’t get in roles. There’s that fine line with handing it to them and making them earn it.”

Hextall credits Phantoms coach Scott Gordon with putting the players in those positions and in the proper timeframe.

“For me, when I was in juniors we didn’t make the playoffs the first couple years and for the young guys coming in it was tough because that was the norm,” Weal said. “When you come into a winning organization and go deep into the playoffs every year, that feels normal. This is how it should be. You shouldn’t be done in mid-April. It should be late June.”



This isn't hockey, but it is another sports organization that has placed an emphasis on winning. The Seattle Mariners.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/131957...minors-update/
Director of player development Andy McKay let it be known early that development in the minor leagues was not just about developing individuals. He believes the minor-league teams records are important because winning is important and that must be be taught as well.

“Learning how to win a baseball game is a skill,” McKay said. “Just like learning how to bunt is a skill. So learning how to play the game that gives you a better chance of winning, it is important because obviously that is what we are trying to do up here.”

“It’s the No. 1 skill you have got to learn: how to win a baseball game,” McKay said, “because obviously that is the only thing that matters up here.”
Not that i wouldnt like to see a better defense to help the kids but how has this so called emphasis on winning helped their big club? They are toiling in medicracy as well and many think they have underachievied as a franchise this season.

A quick look at the stats sheet shows that the Phantoms are being driven by their vets. The roster composition and impact isn't all that different than the Ice Caps a few years back. Their first round picks can be found well down the scoring list. Sanheim is third in D scoring, Morand who was drafted ahead of Morrissey has 11 points. First round pick centre Laughton is 9th in scoring. Only one player in Sanheim looks to be developing at an expected level, hard to argue that their prospects are being put in the optimal position to develop.


Last edited by surixon: 03-21-2017 at 06:20 PM.
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Old
03-21-2017, 06:34 PM
  #223
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i usually agree with your posts but am wondering what the heck ya talking about here.

Kosmachuk hasn't proven much at the AHL level. Lipon's a 4th liner maybe 5 years ago and has no role in today's NHL. is a good emergency call-up and likely nothing more.
Olsen?? not even sure why you'd suggest that.
They're all AHL cannon fodder. let them walk. they have next to no role in the Jets' future.
you give Connor and Roslo call-ups to give them a taste of the NHL. you consider giving De Leo as well, but i'd argue that he's an NHL long shot, so really, what are you acheiving by calling him up?
I suggest those 3 because decisions are required. Olsen probably not. I think he is done. Lipon may be done but he may still have 4th line potential. If not then he may be worth an AHL contract. Kosmachuk I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss. He is likely worth a 1 year, 2 way contract. A last chance.

Connor had a pretty good taste of the NHL to start the year, 19 games. Both will get plenty of TOI in TC and Connor will almost certainly start next year in the NHL. A very good chance that Roslo does too. I'm not worried about either of them. There are no difficult decisions there. Nothing to learn. No harm in bringing them up. Nothing accomplished either. It is a little reward for them and some recognition.

If the decisions are already made on these pending RFA's then sure, bringing them up is a waste. But if there are decisions still to be finalized then take another look at them against NHL competition.

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03-21-2017, 06:50 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Deif View Post
Other organizations have placed an emphasis on breeding a winning culture, while the Jets/Moose continue to toil with last place. I still don't understand why this organization continues to avoid winning is a development step - surround players like Roslovic, Connor with quality veterans, give the team some not pylons on defense to work with. If bringing in quality AHL veterans in pushes more fringe players down to Tulsa where they can play top 6 minutes then so be it. If the Jets think that Patrice Cormier and Brian Strait are "quality AHL veterans" then this organization has other very serious issues.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, and I've heard all the arguments against it (who cares about winning? let the kids play!"). It's been bothering me for the past few months.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...toms/99462638/
“We’ve got a good team, but there’s quite a few kids down there with a big chunk of the pie,” Hextall said. “They’re playing regular shifts, power play, penalty kill. That’s important. You don’t want to overload too much with veterans so that the kids get pushed down and don’t get in roles. There’s that fine line with handing it to them and making them earn it.”

Hextall credits Phantoms coach Scott Gordon with putting the players in those positions and in the proper timeframe.

“For me, when I was in juniors we didn’t make the playoffs the first couple years and for the young guys coming in it was tough because that was the norm,” Weal said. “When you come into a winning organization and go deep into the playoffs every year, that feels normal. This is how it should be. You shouldn’t be done in mid-April. It should be late June.”



This isn't hockey, but it is another sports organization that has placed an emphasis on winning. The Seattle Mariners.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/131957...minors-update/
Director of player development Andy McKay let it be known early that development in the minor leagues was not just about developing individuals. He believes the minor-league teams records are important because winning is important and that must be be taught as well.

“Learning how to win a baseball game is a skill,” McKay said. “Just like learning how to bunt is a skill. So learning how to play the game that gives you a better chance of winning, it is important because obviously that is what we are trying to do up here.”

“It’s the No. 1 skill you have got to learn: how to win a baseball game,” McKay said, “because obviously that is the only thing that matters up here.”
Not a very good example to prove your point.

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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Not that i wouldnt like to see a better defense to help the kids but how has this so called emphasis on winning helped their big club? They are toiling in medicracy as well and many think they have underachievied as a franchise this season.

A quick look at the stats sheet shows that the Phantoms are being driven by their vets. The roster composition and impact isn't all that different than the Ice Caps a few years back. Their first round picks can be found well down the scoring list. Sanheim is third in D scoring, Morand who was drafted ahead of Morrissey has 11 points. First round pick centre Laughton is 9th in scoring. Only one player in Sanheim looks to be developing at an expected level, hard to argue that their prospects are being put in the optimal position to develop.
I agree with Deif's point, just not his example. If the Moose had a couple of GOOD by AHL standards vet D and some better vet F's they could be a competitive team without depriving any genuine prospect of any TOI. Playing in a winning environment just has to be better. The only way losing with the Moose is good is that it prepares them for what they will have to endure with the Jets.

The Phantoms go way too far but that is because Sanheim is the only good prospect they have at that level. Which Flyers prospect is being deprived of TOI?

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03-21-2017, 11:01 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Not a very good example to prove your point.



I agree with Deif's point, just not his example. If the Moose had a couple of GOOD by AHL standards vet D and some better vet F's they could be a competitive team without depriving any genuine prospect of any TOI. Playing in a winning environment just has to be better. The only way losing with the Moose is good is that it prepares them for what they will have to endure with the Jets.

The Phantoms go way too far but that is because Sanheim is the only good prospect they have at that level. Which Flyers prospect is being deprived of TOI?
Laughton is one and Morand was highly touted but has gone the way many fear Stanley will go.

I also don't disagree with the premises myself but it's not like the Moose don't dress 3 to 4 vet dmen a game it's just that Kichton has fallen off a cliff and Heisinger has brought in other poor ones to round things out. I think it's fairly clear that Heisinger has been slow to adapt with regards to where defenseman are going. The forwards really haven't been bad all things considering.

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