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Roster speculation 16-17 part 3

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Old
03-03-2017, 12:35 PM
  #76
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If Reinhart thinks he's getting more than $5 mil, he better be trade bait.

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03-03-2017, 12:35 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sabres81 View Post
I've missed large portions of the last few games but have they put Erod with Eichel yet? Even for a few shifts? If there is was there any chemistry
Nope they got a random 4on4 shift together but that's it

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03-03-2017, 12:36 PM
  #78
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I've missed large portions of the last few games but have they put Erod with Eichel yet? Even for a few shifts? If there is was there any chemistry
Evan is apparently a center under Bylsma, so I doubt they'll be playing together.

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03-03-2017, 01:16 PM
  #79
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Sabres need to bring somebody in who can finish Eichel's awesome set ups. Reinhart isn't that guy (if anything he should be setting up Eichel). Kane has been playing that role, but he isn't really that guy either (he needs the puck on his stick too much to be that guy). We need a Moulson to Eichel's Tavares.

Some options:
- Alex Nylander
- T.J. Oshie (too expensive?)
- Kyle Okposo (I can't remember him ever being tried on Eichel's wing)
- Alex Radulov
- Thomas Vanek
- Patrick Sharp (not sure he has it anymore)

Any trade targets? Doesn't really need to be a complete player. Just a guy that can bury chances when they are served up on a silver platter.

I think Baptiste is the best option. Great wheels and the best sniper in the system that is ready for NHL action. I think long term it will be Nylander but he looks like another half year + before he is ready.

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Old
03-03-2017, 01:55 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If Reinhart thinks he's getting more than $5 mil, he better be trade bait.
Who's better than Reinhart that gets/got $5mil (6.8% of cap) or less at similar age/development/2nd contract/production? Just curious what you're basing the $5mil number on? Are you thinking he should get a bridge or under 5 on a longer term deal?

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Old
03-03-2017, 02:35 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by McPhatty00 View Post
Jack has to get ROR money. Reinhart is a 5 mil guy. If only Ennis can find his way or GMTM can find a buyer. That leaves Moulson's albatross of a salary. Maybe he can get McPhee to take him for a draft pick. I'd give LV a 2nd to take Moulson.
Right now, as it stands, and provided Murray does not resign any pending UFAs or make any pre-expansion draft trades, the Sabres exposed list consists of Moulson, Ennis, Deslauriers, Gorges, Falk, and Ullmark. (Assuming Bogo gets the 3rd D protection spot, unless you'd prefer exposing him and protecting Falk which seems unlikely).

This basically means LV has a choice of taking a useless player (Gorges, Deslauriers, Falk), a backup goalie (Ullmark, and there are probably going to be better goalie options available), or a bad forward contract (Moulson, Ennis).

There's a good chance without having to offer LV anything one of those albatross contracts will be gone simply because they've gotta take someone, and if they want to compete relatively soon they'll probably want to get someone with talent, which means Ennis would be the pick (they can hope a complete offseason healthy helps him rebound). If the Sabres expose Bogo (say, they re-sign Kulikov and protect him instead), then Bogo would almost certainly be the pick since for all his warts he is seen as a top 4 D-man, which contract wise is better for us since he makes more and is signed for 1 year longer than Ennis/Moulson. Buying out one of Ennis/Moulson is more tenable after next year (when we'll need the extra cap for Eichel/Reinhart and Kane if re-signed) since they'll each only have 1 year left on their contract.

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Old
03-03-2017, 03:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CrazyPsycho View Post
Can we call baptiste back and not do the des thing again please
With the limited number of recalls post-deadline, I wouldn't be surprised to see Deslauriers stay in, at least if it's just a short term injury to Okposo.

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Old
03-03-2017, 03:23 PM
  #83
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Vanek could be had. He wanted to come back last year.

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Old
03-03-2017, 03:34 PM
  #84
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Vanek could be had. He wanted to come back last year.
For the love of god .. no.

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03-03-2017, 03:37 PM
  #85
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With the limited number of recalls post-deadline, I wouldn't be surprised to see Deslauriers stay in, at least if it's just a short term injury to Okposo.
Since the season is kinda shot .... Lets put Des with Eichel or Reinhart, Des then gets 5-6 goals. Then some GM may give us a 3rd or 4th for him instead of a 7th.

Or just waive him to Rochester. lol

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03-03-2017, 03:40 PM
  #86
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Vanek could be had. He wanted to come back last year.
Not sure he makes a difference.

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03-03-2017, 03:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by McPhatty00 View Post
Vanek could be had. He wanted to come back last year.
Only if he re-takes 26, and helps build the mechanism that launches Moulson (or at least his contract) into the sun.

Make my jersey relevant again!

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Old
03-03-2017, 03:55 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by New Sabres Captain View Post
Right now, as it stands, and provided Murray does not resign any pending UFAs or make any pre-expansion draft trades, the Sabres exposed list consists of Moulson, Ennis, Deslauriers, Gorges, Falk, and Ullmark. (Assuming Bogo gets the 3rd D protection spot, unless you'd prefer exposing him and protecting Falk which seems unlikely).

This basically means LV has a choice of taking a useless player (Gorges, Deslauriers, Falk), a backup goalie (Ullmark, and there are probably going to be better goalie options available), or a bad forward contract (Moulson, Ennis).

There's a good chance without having to offer LV anything one of those albatross contracts will be gone simply because they've gotta take someone, and if they want to compete relatively soon they'll probably want to get someone with talent, which means Ennis would be the pick (they can hope a complete offseason healthy helps him rebound). If the Sabres expose Bogo (say, they re-sign Kulikov and protect him instead), then Bogo would almost certainly be the pick since for all his warts he is seen as a top 4 D-man, which contract wise is better for us since he makes more and is signed for 1 year longer than Ennis/Moulson. Buying out one of Ennis/Moulson is more tenable after next year (when we'll need the extra cap for Eichel/Reinhart and Kane if re-signed) since they'll each only have 1 year left on their contract.
Exactly right, Vegas will have to take a crappy player or contract. Ennis hasn't looked horrible lately so barring another injury, he's the logical choice. Plus, he does have skills, speed, prime age and the contract is only for two more years.

Regarding Bogisian. I just think you're wrong. If Bogo was shopped, he'd have value. Big, tough, right age, pedigree. Someone would trade for him, and not a cap dump but a decent deal, maybe change of scenery for both players. He's a right shot Dman, he has value.

Let's just pray that Ennis is the choice, as Hockey News thinks also, so we're rid of one of Moulson/Ennis next year. Saves over $4 mil cap hit.

I just can't see Vegas taking a Falk/Des/minor leaguer, they still need to field a team and Ennis is a top six player.

Why I've been saying we are in the perfect spot for the Expansion Draft, and Murrays been planning that. I honestly think we'll be very competitive next year.

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Old
03-03-2017, 03:56 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Dreakon13 View Post
Only if he re-takes 26, and helps build the mechanism that launches Moulson (or at least his contract) into the sun.

Make my jersey relevant again!

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Old
03-03-2017, 04:36 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If Reinhart thinks he's getting more than $5 mil, he better be trade bait.
It completely depends on how many years the contract is though.

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Old
03-05-2017, 12:01 PM
  #91
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I think the defense will be easier to fix than anticipated. I'll make the opening assumption that GMTM won't land Shattenkirk. He's going to the Rangers, and if they can't make the money work, he'll end up with the Isles or the Devils. Location matters for him, as evident through the sign-and-trade deals he nixed.

I am thinking of two routes GMTM can pursue, and both help Ristolainen. Option 1 is helping him with a mobile, puck moving partner; the other way is to build a defensive minded second pair. Common to both of the options I'm suggesting is signing Ron Hainsey to help Bogosian, and trading Kane.

Option 1: add a mobile puck mover.

GMTM trades Kane to Anaheim for Fowler. Both on the last year of their deals. Fowler pairs with Ristolainen. Sets the defense up accordingly:

Fowler - Ristolainen
McCabe - X
Hainsey - Bogosian

Benefit is adding Fowler, who instantly upgrades the team's ability to get the puck out of the D zone. This option leaves a hole at 2RHD, which would take another move to fill. Possibly Jason Demers?

Option 2: create a defensive-minded second pairing to ease Ristolainen's minutes.

GMTM trades Kane to Vancouver for Tanev. Tanev anchors the second pair and eats the D zone starts and primary PK minutes, as well as matching against top lines. Sets the defense up accordingly:

McCabe - Ristolainen
X - Tanev
Hainsey - Bogosian

Benefit is the easing of Ristolainen's minutes and situations. The hole is at 2LHD, which is easier to fill. Re-sign Kulikov to a one-year "show-me" deal? Brendan Smith? GMTM can also bring in another puck moving OFD and move McCabe to pair with Tanev. And Fowler is a free agent at the end of the 2018 season.

------------

Overall, the options do a few things collectively:

- Keeps Gorges as the 7D, which I think is important. This also starts Fedun, Falk, and Nelson in Rochester to give them a better blue line.
- Keeps Guhle out of the line-up. I think rushing him would be foolish.
- Keeps the 2017 1st and Nylander for another trade, if needed. 2017 1st could be another defenseman, as well.
- Slots Bogosian lower in the line-up and give him a partner who he worked well with in the past.
- Moves Kane at optimal value a year out from when he becomes a free agent.
- Doesn't screw with the team's salary structure going forward.

Thoughts? (responses describing Tanev as a "shot blocker" will be ignored).

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Old
03-06-2017, 12:32 PM
  #92
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I would lean the Taney way. I think Risto needs some help behind him to really move his game forward. It seems like there are going to be a lot of teams trying to fix their defense next year. We might have some competition.

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Old
03-06-2017, 12:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by McPhatty00 View Post
Vanek could be had. He wanted to come back last year.
If we had a bad PP I'd consider it. But...we have a very very good powerplay.

Mark Vanek to a small market team that needs a 2nd line forward next year.

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Old
03-06-2017, 03:21 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If Reinhart thinks he's getting more than $5 mil, he better be trade bait.
I don't think he'll get much more than 5M but he could be around that number. If you get Rhino for that cap hit for a long term deal, you take it!

I wholeheartedly believe we'll have a new coach pretty soon, plus a new system. And if that new coach has any decent hockey IQ he'll make Reinhart our 2C behind Jack or our 3C behind Jack and ROR (I'm fine with either..but prefer him at 2C).

If we trade him for a top pairing defenseman (ex: Hanifin), I'd be fine with that too. Because Hanifin would be at a relatively similar cap hit (maybe slightly below) at a long term deal.

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03-06-2017, 04:17 PM
  #95
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IMO, Reinhart should get something like the Duchene bridge contract. 2 years 3.5-3.75M.

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03-06-2017, 05:20 PM
  #96
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Vancouver radio was mentioning the Sabres were shopping Kane at the Deadline. (Check Matt Sekeres Twitter) We also know the Canucks were approached about Chris Tanev but don't know who that team was and the return on offer (Could very well have been the Sabres). Given Murray's less than committal comments about Kane post Deadline you have to think Kane is gone this summer for a top 4 D man. At least that will be the plan.

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03-06-2017, 05:41 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by B U F F A L O View Post
IMO, Reinhart should get something like the Duchene bridge contract. 2 years 3.5-3.75M.
He signed that contract like 6 years ago, so you gotta account for inflation or you're giving Reinhardt significantly less.

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Old
03-06-2017, 07:25 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I think the defense will be easier to fix than anticipated. I'll make the opening assumption that GMTM won't land Shattenkirk. He's going to the Rangers, and if they can't make the money work, he'll end up with the Isles or the Devils. Location matters for him, as evident through the sign-and-trade deals he nixed.

I am thinking of two routes GMTM can pursue, and both help Ristolainen. Option 1 is helping him with a mobile, puck moving partner; the other way is to build a defensive minded second pair. Common to both of the options I'm suggesting is signing Ron Hainsey to help Bogosian, and trading Kane.

Option 1: add a mobile puck mover.

GMTM trades Kane to Anaheim for Fowler. Both on the last year of their deals. Fowler pairs with Ristolainen. Sets the defense up accordingly:

Fowler - Ristolainen
McCabe - X
Hainsey - Bogosian

Benefit is adding Fowler, who instantly upgrades the team's ability to get the puck out of the D zone. This option leaves a hole at 2RHD, which would take another move to fill. Possibly Jason Demers?

Option 2: create a defensive-minded second pairing to ease Ristolainen's minutes.

GMTM trades Kane to Vancouver for Tanev. Tanev anchors the second pair and eats the D zone starts and primary PK minutes, as well as matching against top lines. Sets the defense up accordingly:

McCabe - Ristolainen
X - Tanev
Hainsey - Bogosian

Benefit is the easing of Ristolainen's minutes and situations. The hole is at 2LHD, which is easier to fill. Re-sign Kulikov to a one-year "show-me" deal? Brendan Smith? GMTM can also bring in another puck moving OFD and move McCabe to pair with Tanev. And Fowler is a free agent at the end of the 2018 season.

------------

Overall, the options do a few things collectively:

- Keeps Gorges as the 7D, which I think is important. This also starts Fedun, Falk, and Nelson in Rochester to give them a better blue line.
- Keeps Guhle out of the line-up. I think rushing him would be foolish.
- Keeps the 2017 1st and Nylander for another trade, if needed. 2017 1st could be another defenseman, as well.
- Slots Bogosian lower in the line-up and give him a partner who he worked well with in the past.
- Moves Kane at optimal value a year out from when he becomes a free agent.
- Doesn't screw with the team's salary structure going forward.

Thoughts? (responses describing Tanev as a "shot blocker" will be ignored).
I'm completely aligned with you. I'd add the Minnesota situation on the blueline as being a key player/component of the offseason market for defensemen

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03-06-2017, 07:56 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Doug Prishpreed View Post
He signed that contract like 6 years ago, so you gotta account for inflation or you're giving Reinhardt significantly less.
Still only puts him at $4M.

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Old
03-06-2017, 08:12 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I think the defense will be easier to fix than anticipated. I'll make the opening assumption that GMTM won't land Shattenkirk. He's going to the Rangers, and if they can't make the money work, he'll end up with the Isles or the Devils. Location matters for him, as evident through the sign-and-trade deals he nixed.

I am thinking of two routes GMTM can pursue, and both help Ristolainen. Option 1 is helping him with a mobile, puck moving partner; the other way is to build a defensive minded second pair. Common to both of the options I'm suggesting is signing Ron Hainsey to help Bogosian, and trading Kane.

Option 1: add a mobile puck mover.

GMTM trades Kane to Anaheim for Fowler. Both on the last year of their deals. Fowler pairs with Ristolainen. Sets the defense up accordingly:

Fowler - Ristolainen
McCabe - X
Hainsey - Bogosian

Benefit is adding Fowler, who instantly upgrades the team's ability to get the puck out of the D zone. This option leaves a hole at 2RHD, which would take another move to fill. Possibly Jason Demers?

Option 2: create a defensive-minded second pairing to ease Ristolainen's minutes.

GMTM trades Kane to Vancouver for Tanev. Tanev anchors the second pair and eats the D zone starts and primary PK minutes, as well as matching against top lines. Sets the defense up accordingly:

McCabe - Ristolainen
X - Tanev
Hainsey - Bogosian

Benefit is the easing of Ristolainen's minutes and situations. The hole is at 2LHD, which is easier to fill. Re-sign Kulikov to a one-year "show-me" deal? Brendan Smith? GMTM can also bring in another puck moving OFD and move McCabe to pair with Tanev. And Fowler is a free agent at the end of the 2018 season.

------------

Overall, the options do a few things collectively:

- Keeps Gorges as the 7D, which I think is important. This also starts Fedun, Falk, and Nelson in Rochester to give them a better blue line.
- Keeps Guhle out of the line-up. I think rushing him would be foolish.
- Keeps the 2017 1st and Nylander for another trade, if needed. 2017 1st could be another defenseman, as well.
- Slots Bogosian lower in the line-up and give him a partner who he worked well with in the past.
- Moves Kane at optimal value a year out from when he becomes a free agent.
- Doesn't screw with the team's salary structure going forward.

Thoughts? (responses describing Tanev as a "shot blocker" will be ignored).
For the most part and in principle I'm with you, it's the details I don't necessarily agree with.

1. Easier than anticipated? Nah. Both Tanev and Fowler would cost a king's ransom and Kane alone as a return won't cut it, as much as I would like that. Look at their respective contracts: Fowler has a lower cap hit and we all know about Anaheim being a budget team. Tanev is signed for two seasons longer than Kane at a lower caphit as well.
And that's even without accounting for value disparity due to position (dman > winger) as well as stiff competition from half the league who could also use those guys.

2. Hainsey might be a good idea or he might not, depending on his contract demands. Also, I'm all for making the kids earn it, but Guhle has pretty much earned it for the second year now. Barring a less than impressive camp, he should be on that 3rd pair.

Here's what I would do: Go all in for Trouba. It's gonna cost the (probably high) 2017 1st plus quite a bit more, but it gives you another guy who can anchor a top 2 pairing by himself. Sign Kulikov for rather cheap with the aim of him being replaced by Guhle eventually.

Then the Kane question is of less urgency. Trade him to replenish the pipeline or keep him for now, depending on the offers.

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