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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix CXXIV: Is there a statute of limitations on Perjury in Arizona?

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:53 AM
  #26
cbcwpg
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03-08-2017, 09:54 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
When is the legislature supposed to be voting on this?
That's the problem...SB1149 has yet to make it on the Senate's agenda for voting, one way or another...

As has been stated in the previous thread's postings based on the released articles and other musings...
there is no support for this bill...
so why 'force' a vote...
other than for the NHL to place further blame on someone else...
instead of on their own failings...

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03-08-2017, 09:54 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
What ever happened to the list of threads that started every Coyotes thread?
Technically speaking?... The so called "Mega Thread" line was broken, ended... but then of course re-started when LeBlanc & Co again stumbled over their own two feet while chewing gum as was inevitable.... however during that brief hiatus & broken line, it was decided to essentially archive the previous threads which KDB was overseeing, havent been re-posted as they once were with the commencement of each new thread.... being stored in a climate controlled underground facility beneath Hangar 13 at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio... above Top Sekret... where they belong with all of the rest of the bizarro world trinkets & artifacts from inner & outer space.

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
When is the legislature supposed to be voting on this?
Possibly never. They obviously don't have the votes. Therefore the bill isn't getting put to a vote.

Now, as time runs out will they try to put it to a vote even if they don't think they have the numbers? Or will they just let it die by gathering dust until the buzzer sounds once the Senate goes back to playing golf.

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03-08-2017, 09:57 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
That's the problem...SB1149 has yet to make it on the Senate's agenda for voting, one way or another...

As has been stated in the previous thread's postings based on the released articles and other musings...there is no support for this bill...so why 'force' a vote...
Thanks. I haven't been paying close attention to this and, not sure if you guys were aware, but it's nearly impossible to follow these threads when you only occasionally pop in.

If it never gets scheduled for a vote, when does it die? At the end of this legislative session, probably, right? When is that?

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03-08-2017, 10:00 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
When is the legislature supposed to be voting on this?
At this point, never. Bill is on life support at best.

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03-08-2017, 10:00 AM
  #32
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It is quite funny how Bettman states that the Glendale location is wrong considering that the University of Phoenix is just next door and the Cardinals have no issue with that.

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03-08-2017, 10:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Thanks. I haven't been paying close attention to this and, not sure if you guys were aware, but it's nearly impossible to follow these threads when you only occasionally pop in.

If it never gets scheduled for a vote, when does it die? At the end of this legislative session, probably, right? When is that?
I believe the date is March 24th which is just a tad over 2 weeks from now.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:06 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
When is the legislature supposed to be voting on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Thanks. I haven't been paying close attention to this and, not sure if you guys were aware, but it's nearly impossible to follow these threads when you only occasionally pop in.

If it never gets scheduled for a vote, when does it die? At the end of this legislative session, probably, right? When is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrage View Post
At this point, never. Bill is on life support at best.
As Rr says, on life-support, in a holding pattern & losing altitude fast.... The last day it can be tabled & put to a vote is March 24th. Chances while seemingly slim... well, welcome to Arizona. Its possible though chances pretty remote.

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03-08-2017, 10:06 AM
  #35
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I believe the date is March 24th which is just a tad over 2 weeks from now.
I see what you did there...

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:08 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrage View Post
I believe the date is March 24th which is just a tad over 2 weeks from now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
As Rr says, on life-support, in a holding pattern & losing altitude fast.... The last day it can be tabled & put to a vote is March 24th. Chances while seemingly slim... well, welcome to Arizona. Its possible though chances pretty remote.
Well, I for one never try to predict what state legislatures will do. Weird stuff happens sometimes.

I know this is ahead of where we are, but am I misremembering that Paul Allen was ready to buy the Coyotes just a few years ago right before the saga got another continuing jolt?

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03-08-2017, 10:23 AM
  #37
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I know this is ahead of where we are, but am I misremembering that Paul Allen was ready to buy the Coyotes just a few years ago right before the saga got another continuing jolt?
The Coyotes were within hours of moving to Portland TWICE in the last 15 years (that I know of, anyway). Allen publicly said he wasn't interested in NHL expansion but I think he's always been Bettman's fallback in case of the Coyotes needing a quick relocation, with the notable exception of the period when TNSE were finally ready to take on a franchise in Winnipeg.

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03-08-2017, 10:27 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Feckless Puck View Post
The Coyotes were within hours of moving to Portland TWICE in the last 15 years (that I know of, anyway). Allen publicly said he wasn't interested in NHL expansion but I think he's always been Bettman's fallback in case of the Coyotes needing a quick relocation, with the notable exception of the period when TNSE were finally ready to take on a franchise in Winnipeg.
And, there were rumors of Seattle at that time before COG signed off on the the 15M/yr AMF as well, with Ray Bartozcek doing the purchasing, and playing in Key Arena.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:27 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Feckless Puck View Post
The Coyotes were within hours of moving to Portland TWICE in the last 15 years (that I know of, anyway). Allen publicly said he wasn't interested in NHL expansion but I think he's always been Bettman's fallback in case of the Coyotes needing a quick relocation, with the notable exception of the period when TNSE were finally ready to take on a franchise in Winnipeg.
I only remember the first one before Gila River was built, Seattle was the back up when they were debating the Arena Management Fee (a phrase that still makes me laugh)

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03-08-2017, 10:30 AM
  #40
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OK.. Let's take roll.....

Bettman: No future in Glendale
Barroway: No future in Glendale, but we are here until it becomes clear there is no path forward in AZ.

John Shannon: First, "The hardline is NOT IN GLENDALE, but they are not counting out AZ." Second, "Cash calls going on, and NHL hasn't had to make payroll for the 'Yotes yet."

Chayka: Not moving out of Arizona, that would make no sense.

Now, of these, I think that Chayka is the least likely to know what's really going on.

As for the rest, it still seems like smoke signals rising...


EDIT TO ADD: Craig Harris, reporter, describes Bettman saying Glendale is the wrong location, when Bettman himself said just 7 years ago that new ownership was all that was needed. This piece is important because it describes the way the local media is reporting, which, from my angle, is NOT positive for IA

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:30 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
And, there were rumors of Seattle at that time before COG signed off on the the 15M/yr AMF as well, with Ray Bartozcek doing the purchasing, and playing in Key Arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
I only remember the first one before Gila River was built, Seattle was the back up when they were debating the Arena Management Fee (a phrase that still makes me laugh)
I think it was during the AMF thing. Somewhere I read that Portland almost happened then too.

The article quoted in here is tangential, but the link doesn't work anymore. This is what I was thinking of though.

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2013/07/10/...nding-coyotes/

Quote:
….according to a highly placed Portland Trail Blazer source, the Blazers were closely monitoring the situation, had been in discussions with the NHL and were ready to make an offer for the franchise in order to move it to Portland’s Rose Garden, if the lease in Glendale didn’t work out. The interest by the Blazers was considered serious, by the team and the NHL, with much time spent on financial analysis and projection


Last edited by Tawnos: 03-08-2017 at 10:37 AM.
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Old
03-08-2017, 10:35 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hercules130 View Post
It is quite funny how Bettman states that the Glendale location is wrong considering that the University of Phoenix is just next door and the Cardinals have no issue with that.
To be fair, the financial dynamics of football are a lot different than hockey. Of course, the location was downplayed when Glendale was writing blank checks to the league and other owners. Now that the city isn't willing to write those checks anymore, they suddenly talk about the location as a big obstacle.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:36 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
And, there were rumors of Seattle at that time before COG signed off on the the 15M/yr AMF as well, with Ray Bartozcek doing the purchasing, and playing in Key Arena.
Yep...

The Coyotes Were Damned Close To Moving To Seattle

To quote:

"Three sources with knowledge of negotiations confirm the Coyotes would have been bought by New York investment banker Ray Bartoszek and his partner Anthony Lanza and moved to Seattle as soon as the following day — playing up to three seasons at KeyArena — had the vote not passed.

"Most people don't realize how close we were to actually getting an NHL team,'' says former Seattle mayor Mike McGinn, who had been involved in the relocation talks."

Source: http://deadspin.com/the-coyotes-were...tle-1643791488

Could they be close...once again...

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:39 AM
  #44
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I suspect that the NHL was only keeping the team in Arizona because they have have on in the region to due to a US TV deal, which is why they fought Balsille tooth and nail.

Now that they have Las Vegas in the relative area, they try there and move the team. Seattle or Quebec City seem likely locales.

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03-08-2017, 10:42 AM
  #45
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Bettman : Coyotes cannot survive without an arena and tax breaks.

Me : So a relocation could be a possibility ?

Bettman : No, never, we will not relocate. But hey, we can't survive if we don't get a free arena and get paid to play in it.

Me : So folding the team could be a possibility ?

Bettman : No, never, we will not fold the team. But please oh for the love of AZ gods give us an arena in the middle of our fan base neighborhood (but have them drive to the arena and pay $100 parking) and pay us to play there. Please please please please.

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03-08-2017, 10:42 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Yep...

The Coyotes Were Damned Close To Moving To Seattle

To quote:

"Three sources with knowledge of negotiations confirm the Coyotes would have been bought by New York investment banker Ray Bartoszek and his partner Anthony Lanza and moved to Seattle as soon as the following day — playing up to three seasons at KeyArena — had the vote not passed.

"Most people don't realize how close we were to actually getting an NHL team,'' says former Seattle mayor Mike McGinn, who had been involved in the relocation talks."

Source: http://deadspin.com/the-coyotes-were...tle-1643791488

Could they be close...once again...
Yep. And, it's worse now because of the way the SCC is working with the potential of a Key remodel.

Fascinating to watch Bettman posturing. He has no leverage. AZ Legislature apparently is more likely to wave them good-bye than to give them $$ to stay. But, Bettman, Barroway and the others have to keep screaming.

Partially because they really have no perfect place to go...

As before:
Stay in GRA? = Losses, about which they have now been very public, and can't walk back at all.
Portland? = Sale for a cheap price, which would not fulfill GB's promise that the owners won't lose anything by buying the Yotes out of bankruptcy.
Seattle? = No idea what there is to work with there. SCC doesn't know what it wants to do. There may or may not even be a temp facility available.
Quebec? = Perfect in every way except where it sits on the planet.

Choose, but it's like picking poison. Ha ha ha ha ha

Bettman and his minions have backed themselves into a tough spot this time.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:43 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I think it was during the AMF thing. Somewhere I read that Portland almost happened then too.
Yeah, your memories not failing Tawnos.... it was reported by ESPN Portland that Paul Allen had indeed thoroughly scoped out the Coyotes, ran the number at $170M in the spring of 2013 prior to the COG voting up the deal with IA... and those numbers at $170M for Portland & his operation did not pencil out. That was including at the time projections of increased broadcast revenues & franchise valuations etc so to expect him to drop double that amount (at least) which is what the NHL will require in order to pay down the creditors who have been propping up the franchise, retrieving the $85M loaned to IA etc seems pretty improbable to me. I dont even know how you could go about getting creative with some sort of "performance based purchase" whereby maybe Portland puts down $150M or $200M, assumes debt of app $150M or more on top of that. Doesnt make any sense, imprudent, fiscally irresponsible, leaving a re-constituted Rosebuds in a deep hole before the pucks even dropped.

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03-08-2017, 10:44 AM
  #48
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The whole thing just feels so Micky Mouse that I dont see why any lukewarm American city on hockey, in the future would feel comfortable dealing with this league? At this point, I honestly feel MLS has their operation more together than the NHL.

The worse is that the NHL will probaly be successful ing etting Average-hockey-fan to believe their narrative that its Glendale's fault and not the NHL's mistakes over the past 25 years.

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03-08-2017, 10:49 AM
  #49
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Some posts to carry forward...
I voted that the Coyotes move. I hate seeing franchises up & leave, alienating fanbases, but the bottom line is that you can't just keep building arenas every time you get a bum deal. It's not cost effective, and you wind up with a white elephant if the team leaves anyway.

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03-08-2017, 10:49 AM
  #50
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The whole thing just feels so Micky Mouse that I dont see why any lukewarm American city on hockey, in the future would feel comfortable dealing with this league? At this point, I honestly feel MLS has their operation more together than the NHL.

The worse is that the NHL will probaly be successful ing etting Average-hockey-fan to believe their narrative that its Glendale's fault and not the NHL's mistakes over the past 25 years.
Could be. It could also be the winds of change are blowing in the political environment, and fewer and fewer cities and states are going to pay for teams.

It's changing in NFL: Kronke's palace in LA - private. Oakland and SD have said "no". Vegas is a special case in my mind.

NHL: Arizona is saying 'no'. KC has been saying "no special lease favors" for a long time.

At least, I hope.

And, it's a bad time to be Bettman, because his broadcast rights are going to be worth less, not more, the next time around, and NHL does not seem to see that coming. And, their app is worthless, when a good streaming app is what they really need. So, less Central Revenues yet means even more pressure on the smaller, newer markets. Really. It's bad.

And, MLS is coming. And, even if MLS doesn't pass NHL, it sure will create a lot of competition in southern markets especially.

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