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Phoenix CXXIV: Is there a statute of limitations on Perjury in Arizona?

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Old
03-08-2017, 12:50 PM
  #101
BattleBorn
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Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
The issue is whether those additional revenues will cover the costs of bringing those revenues in. That's unlikely and they only need to look at Glendale to see an example where it didn't work.
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
We all know that it's never going to happen like they predict... they said the same thing about Glendale and the profits never materialized and the Arizona legislators know it now, which is why the bill won't pass.
I'm not advocating for passage of the bill, just saying that the card the league is playing isn't coming out of left field.

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03-08-2017, 12:51 PM
  #102
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This group was not to be trusted from the first day they arrived! The financial structure with all of the Calgary wannabes was suspicious from the start. Payroll was never allowed to climb much beyond the floor, though they wanted us to believe they were legitimate by manipulating contracts to subvert the payroll floor.

Tony's claims of marketing acumen have since been proven to be nothing but hopeful conjecture and resume padding. Once on board he proved to be nothing more than a two bit used car salesman without an ounce of business ability. Better suited to be the manager of a Tim Hortons. GB selected these clowns over other far more qualified suitors. They did what they do best, bluster and obfuscate all in the name of presenting a supposedly sophisticated management group.

Thus, the ice clown designation, a moniker assigned to them in the early going when it became painfully obvious that this was a group of pretenders.

Along the way the signs of incompetence became more and more obvious, led by the untruths proffered by the huckster in chief, Tony Lebluster.

Surprising how long the general public was led astray by the placeholders. Finally, it took none other than the state legislature to pull back the curtain of deceit. The clowns were given a chance, the real dark figure in this entire charade is ButtHead himself who was the mastermind behind the clowns!

Note to Gary, time to come clean, thank Glendale for all that they have done for you despite the fact that you lied to them. Thank the fans for always believing, thank Worsley for his misguided effort and finally apologize to all of those who you road graded to fulfill your deception.

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Old
03-08-2017, 12:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
I'm not advocating for passage of the bill, just saying that the card the league is playing isn't coming out of left field.
That card Bettman is playing is called "Desperation" and it's a last-ditch effort to get what he wants knowing full well it will blow into his ugly face.

When this fails, Bettman will have painted himself in a dark corner!

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03-08-2017, 12:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
They're operating under the assumption that a more centrally located facility would sell more tickets at a higher price and likely think concessions and the like would go up as well. I don't see any fault in that, it likely would happen.

The issue is that it's not looking like they're going to get the bill passed, he's trying to sell the people on passing the bill. "Pass this, and revenues to the state will go up." Whether people bite is another story. It's not an outright lie, though.
It's a lie of scale. There would be slight increases. But there is no way that the state gets as much out of this as NHL is subtly suggesting there would be.

But, they are also either....
1- Lying to themselves because at the same time, the new location is not going to make the team profitable, or...
2- Trying to get the arena bill passed, and then going to ask the host city for Arena Management Fees of the same scale they asked from Glendale.

Again, bravo to Legislature for letting the bill gather dust.

Interestingly, there is no new spin from Bettman and Barroway. It's the same song and dance that the public is tired of. And, the public has let the Leg know that, so it doesn't seem like there can actually be any changing of minds on the bill.

Bettman's this morning suggests that the backlash from last night got back to the BOG meeting, and Bettman learned that the threats didn't net the response he wanted, because even the loyal fans are starting to duck out. So, this morning, putting out fires, he tries to renew fan loyalty by promising, "we haven't given up on the market." Problem is, Gary, the market has given up on you.

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03-08-2017, 12:55 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
I'm not advocating for passage of the bill, just saying that the card the league is playing isn't coming out of left field.
This tactic isn't new either. It's the same one that every sports team trying to get a handout from the government has tried, even if LeBlanc is trying to paint it as such. If you build it, just imagine all these new revenue streams you will get to tap! Except in rare circumstances, they don't work as many economic studies have found.

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03-08-2017, 12:56 PM
  #106
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The problem with Phoenix is they have the market not the demographic... The problem with Quebec is they have the demographic and not the market...

IMO, if Arizona can't make it in Phoenix then the franchise should just fold.... See, Arizona should have been relocated to Vegas and this wouldn't be an issue anymore....

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03-08-2017, 12:56 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
And, then Glendale responds, "Well, we'll think about it. But, that's too bad. We have a very nice arena, and it's still state-of-the-art. We built it for you. And, the terms of your lease are very favorable. It's too bad your business doesn't work here. Hmmm, how about you pay us 5M to forfeit next year?"

Or, something like that.

Anyway, I wonder if those discussions have already begun?
Why such a small amount? COG should sue the NHL, owners of the Coyotes, for 500 million.

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03-08-2017, 12:56 PM
  #108
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Old
03-08-2017, 12:58 PM
  #109
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“My job is to represent the taxpayers of Glendale and we have the core legislative group that is against the Coyotes moving out of Glendale for a new taxpayer-paid arena when they have a perfect arena now,” Kern said. “I don’t see how this will pass and I have steps in place to stop it.”

Interesting. So even if this does somehow manage to get support to pass Kern has a backup plan. Maybe a lawsuit?

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03-08-2017, 01:00 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Some of the Glendale councilmembers/representatives are weighing in...

Bettman to Arizona: new arena or Coyotes will leave

To quote:

"“I fully expect (Bettman) to do anything he can to support Anthony LeBlanc and his hockey team,” [Glendale Vice Mayor Ian] Hugh said. “I expect (Bettman and the Coyotes) to try and get a meeting with elected officials, if he hasn’t already, to try and get support to pass this bill.”

“I must have missed the part of Mr. Bettman’s letter where he thanked the taxpayers of Glendale who have financially supported the Coyotes for 13 years,” said councilmember Lauren Tolmachoff. “Not only did the city pay the NHL $25 million twice when the team had no owners, but all the other ways the taxpayers have subsidized (the Coyotes), I must have missed the thank you in Bettman’s letter.”

“(Bettman’s letter) tells me they have some tactical maneuvers at the Legislature to keep pushing this taxing district, when nearly 80 percent of voters are against public funding,” [District 20 Rep. Anthony] Kern said. “It looks like they are trying to get something to keep this possible taxing district moving. This tells me that if they can’t make it in Glendale, where they have the second- or third-best lease agreement, they can’t make it anywhere.”"

Source: http://www.glendalestar.com/news/art...e8524c3f7.html
This is the first time in the last 2 years of the saga that Glendale has fought back in public. Tolmachoff especially brings up the amount Glendale has spent, a figure which previously has only been mentioned here.

Since IA/NHL are blaming Glendale, and now Glendale is fighting back, how much sense does it really make to play at GRA next year????

It was going to be difficult at best...How do you convince Glendale, through AEG to let you play 2 or 3 years while you build a new arena to compete directly with them? It's like saying, "Please hold my hat, honey, while I call my mistress. You don't mind, do you?"
Now, it's public war.

It sure seems like this is the end.

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03-08-2017, 01:00 PM
  #111
robertocarlos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
We all know that it's never going to happen like they predict... they said the same thing about Glendale and the profits never materialized and the Arizona legislators know it now, which is why the bill won't pass.
Who knew the housing bubble would pop. This was a real estate play much like building an arena in Kanata.

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Old
03-08-2017, 01:01 PM
  #112
Slashers98
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From the Glendale Star article:

Quote:
“The bottom line is the Coyotes keep saying they need a new arena, when I believe what they really want is a blank check from taxpayers,” Kern said. “They want the state and city to pay for a new arena, and then they will want the host city to pay them to run that arena, so they want a subsidy from another city to turn a profit. I believe the recent poll says that voters have had enough.”

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03-08-2017, 01:01 PM
  #113
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I'll leave this here...

Your take: Coyotes fans weigh in on NHL's arena ultimatum

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...atum/98902480/

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03-08-2017, 01:03 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
It's amazing how we have gone from Anthony LeBlanc saying the team should be profitable within 3 years of IA buying the team... to having Gary Bettman basically saying the team was never going to be profitable in Glendale ever.

I do have a question for Bettman...

After saying this...

"While the Coyotes ownership has consistently promised to explore every possible option to keep the franchise in Arizona, no business can afford to be in financial and marketing limbo," Bettman wrote. "And, please remember it was the City of Glendale -- not the Coyotes -- that terminated the long-term agreement it had with the Coyotes."

Does this mean if the long term lease was still in effect, then the location wouldn't be a problem and the Coyotes wouldn't need a new arena elsewhere??

Because, if the Coyotes do in fact need a new arena elsewhere to survive, even if the lease in Glendale had not been broken, then that would mean the NHL and IA never had any intentions of staying in Glendale long term and the whole lease with it's 5 year out clause was just a sham to buy time to find another home, and every thing the NHL and IA has said over the years has been nothing but a lie. Would this sum things up Gary??
That has been my assessment since the lease was signed. I think that they never planned to stay in Glendale beyond 5 years, and everything that has transpired since then has strengthened that belief.

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03-08-2017, 01:05 PM
  #115
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The sadness in all this is if they end up relocating, Coyotes fans should not expect any empathy whatsoever. If this were happening in Minnesota, QC, Winnipeg, Harford, Brooklyn, Pittsburgh, this would be treated with some respect. But since we're talking about Arizona, fans (as real as anywhere else) getting screwed over will be treated like Christmas. "Serves you right, now stay away from our game."

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03-08-2017, 01:07 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
It's like saying, "Please hold my hat, honey, while I call my mistress. You don't mind, do you?"
Now, it's public war.

It sure seems like this is the end.
I like the analogy of asking your now ex-wife if you can sleep on her couch for a bit while you wait for a potential new house that your younger, hotter girlfriend might build for the two of you.

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03-08-2017, 01:09 PM
  #117
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let's also be clear ... that supposed $170M is based on wishful thinking and glowing forecasts that would, even in the best case, only be achieved over a very, very long time period.

most importantly, it is premised on two untenable assumptions ... that those revenues would actually materialize, that the existence of the team in some new arena would actually drive economic gains; and that the team would actually be around long enough to pay them back.

given their proven track record, neither assumption is even remotely realistic.
Well, yeah, but when has realism ever entered into the NHL/IA's assumptions here?

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03-08-2017, 01:11 PM
  #118
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The AZ legislators want the Coyotes and the NHL to convince AZ tax-payers that they should support a new arena to support the NHL team. How about the Coyotes and the NHL work a bit harder to convince AZ hockey fans to support the Coyotes, first?

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03-08-2017, 01:12 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
The AZ legislators want the Coyotes and the NHL to convince AZ tax-payers that they should support a new arena to support the NHL team. How about the Coyotes and the NHL work a bit harder to convince AZ hockey fans to support the Coyotes, first?
Likely a little late for that, it's also set up as a chicken/egg situation by design at this point.

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03-08-2017, 01:12 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
The problem with Phoenix is they have the market not the demographic... The problem with Quebec is they have the demographic and not the market...

IMO, if Arizona can't make it in Phoenix then the franchise should just fold.... See, Arizona should have been relocated to Vegas and this wouldn't be an issue anymore....
It seems that a lot of the hockey markets have the demographic problem. Its been that way for a long time. It doesn't help that a lot of the NHL markets are in cities that have lot of transplants that still want to cheer on their former team instead of adopting the new team.

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03-08-2017, 01:12 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
The AZ legislators want the Coyotes and the NHL to convince AZ tax-payers that they should support a new arena to support the NHL team. How about the Coyotes and the NHL work a bit harder to convince AZ hockey fans to support the Coyotes, first?
if NHL convinced the fans to support the team, we wouldn't be in this mess.

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03-08-2017, 01:15 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by zetastrike View Post
The sadness in all this is if they end up relocating, Coyotes fans should not expect any empathy whatsoever. If this were happening in Minnesota, QC, Winnipeg, Harford, Brooklyn, Pittsburgh, this would be treated with some respect. But since we're talking about Arizona, fans (as real as anywhere else) getting screwed over will be treated like Christmas. "Serves you right, now stay away from our game."
Actually, I would have quite a bit of empathy for AZ fans.

But I think that many of the fans and the local media have been much to credulous with the platitudes and prevarications from IA and the NHL, and cut them way too much slack.

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03-08-2017, 01:16 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
This is the first time in the last 2 years of the saga that Glendale has fought back in public. Tolmachoff especially brings up the amount Glendale has spent, a figure which previously has only been mentioned here.
It is nice to see Glendale fight back, and in the process showing just how disgusting the NHL's business practices are. The amount of money the CoG has spent on this team over the years is mind-blowing, and now from the NHL they get... it was all your fault, you blew it.

What gets me the most though, and maybe it is changing, but it's the lack of outrage from the people that cover this team and cover tax dollars being spent.

Not to bring up another market other than to make a point, but if the Jets, who also play in an arena of the approx. age as the one in Glendale, were being told by Bettman to build another taxpayer funded arena or the team was moving, the only question being asked around here would be... how tall of a stick do we need to prop Bettman's head on.

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03-08-2017, 01:17 PM
  #124
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I know the team hasn't been good for most of the time its been in Arizona. The ownership hasn't been good either but the fans have never been there. Look at the last time they made the playoffs, it took til playoff time for the fans to finally show up. I am not blaming it all on the fans but I would say about 10% of the reason they are in this mess is the lack of hardcore fans.

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03-08-2017, 01:22 PM
  #125
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Likely a little late for that, it's also set up as a chicken/egg situation by design at this point.
Agree. My point was a bit facetious. Instead of setting things up to fail in Glendale, IA should have done what they promised and worked their tails off to make the team and the arena business in Glendale work. Instead, I think that they had no intention of making it work in Glendale, and were just biding their time until they could leave in 5 years. I think that what they did to their supporters was pretty disgraceful.

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