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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Are the Leafs the new Blackhawks?

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:03 PM
  #51
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Now all they have to do is win 3 cups!

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:04 PM
  #52
Kelly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
If we want to keep using Keith as an example, there is like 30 D in the NHL/AHL right now who are future #1 D because at 22/23 they at same place as Keith. Further there are like 100 forwards who are all future Datysuks because they are ahead of him at same age

Rielly is actually regressing in the NHL now with tougher assignments, not improving. Keith was brought along wonderfully and major anomaly. Cant be used as a comparison

When all Leafs fans were celebrating the Phanuef trade I had said that this trade will actually have negative impacts because it was Phanuef that was soaking up all the tough minutes and allowing Rielly to plat easier minutes and excel. With Phanuef gone that shield was removed and Rielly was thrown in the shark tank head first. Now we are seeing the results of that. You can almost directly pararell Phanuef and Riellys development. Phanuef came over from Calgary as this young phenom D who had all the makings of a future #1. Goes to Toronto and plays #1 minutes from get go. As years go on he starts to regress a bit at a time because never got proper development. Eventually traded away as a cap dump. Then came Rielly. Young phenom who looked pretty good his first 2 years. All of a sudden thrust into #1 role when not prepared and regressionis happening a little bit at a time. So id bet Rielly ends up ALOT closer to Phanuef then Keith


Some call it regressing, others may call it adjusting.

Seriously, he's 22 and playing in his first full season as the go to guy. Quit speaking in absolutes and give the kid a little bit. Rielly is going to be a great NHL D just because of his skating. He's also quite clearly nursing an injury.

Anyway, Leafs look like they're going to be a good team, but it's still way too early to call them the Hawks.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:05 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
No Keith or Seabrook. Still miles away.
Exactly. If Rielly becomes similar to Keith then the comp doesn't look ridiculous IMO. Tough to be the Hawks 2.0 when you have a high end forward core but are limited on D.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Ppl keep saying that... How many points did Keith have in his first 300 NHL games?
Keith was 4 years older when he came into his own. It's just not about games played. Reilly started his career much earlier.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:06 PM
  #55
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If the leafs don't win 3 cups in he next 5 years god doesnt exist

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Drew4u View Post
Toronto's defence is terrible. And their top defenders are in their prime so they won't get much better. I think Buffalo, and Winnipeg have a better chance of cup wins in the future
We've been hearing about Buffalo and Winnipeg's great future for how long now?
Not sure how you can say Reilly has peaked. Not many have at 22/23.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:08 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Ppl keep saying that... How many points did Keith have in his first 300 NHL games?
For the record, I'm not personally pushing for this comparison. I just can't tell if you're trying to bait an answer, or just can't figure it out yourself.

Either way:

Rielly:
GP 295
G 22
A 92
P 114

Keith:
GP 295
G 29
A 87
P 116

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:09 PM
  #58
LeafFever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
If we want to keep using Keith as an example, there is like 30 D in the NHL/AHL right now who are future #1 D because at 22/23 they at same place as Keith. Further there are like 100 forwards who are all future Datysuks because they are ahead of him at same age

Rielly is actually regressing in the NHL now with tougher assignments, not improving. Keith was brought along wonderfully and major anomaly. Cant be used as a comparison

When all Leafs fans were celebrating the Phanuef trade I had said that this trade will actually have negative impacts because it was Phanuef that was soaking up all the tough minutes and allowing Rielly to plat easier minutes and excel. With Phanuef gone that shield was removed and Rielly was thrown in the shark tank head first. Now we are seeing the results of that. You can almost directly pararell Phanuef and Riellys development. Phanuef came over from Calgary as this young phenom D who had all the makings of a future #1. Goes to Toronto and plays #1 minutes from get go. As years go on he starts to regress a bit at a time because never got proper development. Eventually traded away as a cap dump. Then came Rielly. Young phenom who looked pretty good his first 2 years. All of a sudden thrust into #1 role when not prepared and regressionis happening a little bit at a time. So id bet Rielly ends up ALOT closer to Phanuef then Keith
I'm not seeing evidence no Phaneuf is a negative. 7 million saved in cap space is huge and they're in a playoff spot.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:09 PM
  #59
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Defenceman peak at 23 ... I thought it was 28.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:10 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
For the record, I'm not personally pushing for this comparison. I just can't tell if you're trying to bait an answer, or just can't figure it out yourself.

Either way:

Rielly:
GP 295
G 22
A 92
P 114

Keith:
GP 295
G 29
A 87
P 116
And again Reilly started so much younger.

I laugh at those 60 and 80 lists of D-Men better than Reilly. And some were not even top-pairing on bad teams and had worse stats and more sheltered minutes. Reilly is becoming terribly underrated.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
He really isn't.

Leafs fans like to say it on the main boards but I get a much different vibe reading their board and GDTs.
Do you? Everyone said a year ago on this board Toronto won't sniff the playoffs for 5 years.

Do other fans really know more?

Winnipeg and Buffalo are "Years Ahead", right guys?

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:13 PM
  #62
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No... Not even close.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:16 PM
  #63
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They probably should actually make the playoffs and win a round before they're christened a dynasty in the making.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:20 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
Do you? Everyone said a year ago on this board Toronto won't sniff the playoffs for 5 years.

Do other fans really know more?

Winnipeg and Buffalo are "Years Ahead", right guys?
I'm talking about Morgan Rielly.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:29 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Wewillrise View Post
Kadri=Byfuglein
Nylander > Hossa
Hyman > Ladd
Zitsev > hjalmarsson
Brown > Brouwer
Bozak = Sharp
If Toronto team is superior to Chicago.... Why aren't they in a playoff spot ?

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:38 PM
  #66
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Dude.. even Matthews and Marner are only in their first season. Give it a bit. Nobody knows if they will remain superstars for years like Kane and Toews have.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:39 PM
  #67
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Now I've seen it all. Feeling sorry for you level headed leafs' fans.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:43 PM
  #68
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There are similarities but the Leafs have a long way to go. Biggest difference has been pointed out by multiple posters in that the Leafs don't look to have the same quality defensemen in the system as Chicago had.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:45 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frederixx View Post
Are they really closer to the Hawks or 2011-2012 Oilers?

Eberle 76pts/78gp
Hall 53pts/61gp
Nugent 52pts/62gp
Gagner 47pts/75gp
Smyth 46pts/82gp
Hemsky
Horcoff

Honestly, they look a lot like the Oilers with a better coach and GM. They probably won't follow their path, but won't be a contender without a top dman and another good 2/3
They're not the Hawks and they're not even close to the Oilers as well. That Oilers lineup was the best they had at the time. We still have Kappy/Bracco/Timashov/Grundstrom/Korkshov/Johnson/Leispic all expected to jump in within the next 2 years. I'm expecting at least 3 of them to be impact middle-6 players, with the others traded due to no spots left on the team.

Here's the projected lineup for next year:
Komarov - Kadri - Marner
Hyman - Matthews - Kapanen
JVR - Nylander - Brown
Martin - Bozak - Leivo/Leipsic

Rielly - xxx (#1D)
Gardiner - Zaistev
Marincin - Carrick/Marchenko

All we're missing is that #1 true D. We need our own Subban/Vlasic/Keith/Doughty/etc, which is a big piece. But we have at least 2 years to look for it before we're 'actually' supposed to contend.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:45 PM
  #70
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Reilly seems to be getting worse every year. Toronto is a long ways away from having their own Duncan Keith.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:47 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Andrei79 View Post
It's something I said in another thread, and I think they have everything in place to be the Chicago of the east. Honestly, if they're not legit contenders in 5 years it'll be a spectacular fail by management.
Huge difference between beeing legit contenders in 5 years and beeing Chicago Blackhawks 2.0. They won 3 cups in 6 years. The chances of Leafs doing that are extremely small.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:48 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Andrei79 View Post
It's something I said in another thread, and I think they have everything in place to be the Chicago of the east. Honestly, if they're not legit contenders in 5 years it'll be a spectacular fail by management.
Everything except a #1 defensemen. Hell I dont even think they have a Cup calibre #2. Reilly anf Zaitsev should be your 3/4 not 1/2 on a Cup team.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:48 PM
  #73
LeafingTheWay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUV Carti View Post
Reilly seems to be getting worse every year. Toronto is a long ways away from having their own Duncan Keith.
Some want him to be the Keith. I don't want that. I want someone else to be our #1D while he grows comfortably into an excellent #2D.

Rielly (#2D) - xxx (#1D)
Gardiner (#2D) - Zaistev (#3D)
xxx - Carrick (#5D)

realistically I want it to be like Nashville but that's not going to happen.

Ekholm (#2D) - Subban (#1D)
Josi (#1D) - Ellis (#2D) is just a dream right now.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:49 PM
  #74
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...I don't know what to say but I feel sorry for good logical Leafs fans, they'll never hear the end of this.

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Old
03-08-2017, 08:50 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by RebelBully View Post
Everything except a #1 defensemen. Hell I dont even think they have a Cup calibre #2. Reilly anf Zaitsev should be your 3/4 not 1/2 on a Cup team.
Take a look at the Pens cup winning D and get back to me on that.

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