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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Are the Leafs the new Blackhawks?

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Old
03-20-2017, 01:02 PM
  #826
Lari
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Originally Posted by TheBigThree View Post
The hawks built around kane and toews. The leafs will build around matthews, nylander and marner. So no it's not the same beast. It might be as good but it'll be a new type of team. Maybe one day they'll compare the leafs to other teams.
You forgot a certain two-time Norris winner and a one-time Conn Smythe winner. One who plays a crucial position logging a tremendous amount of ice-time playing directly against the other team's superstars.

Why is Keith a lesser player than Toews & Kane?

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03-20-2017, 01:45 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Lari View Post
You forgot a certain two-time Norris winner and a one-time Conn Smythe winner. One who plays a crucial position logging a tremendous amount of ice-time playing directly against the other team's superstars.

Why is Keith a lesser player than Toews & Kane?
It's not even that. Why do you have to compare Toronto with Chicago? Can't Toronto have their own identity? No team will EVER be like another team. Every team has their own identity. You don't see me saying "The Oilers are the new Penguins". That's just silly because they both are not alike. Period. Let Toronto get it's own identity. Enough of the "Apples to Oranges" comparisons.

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03-20-2017, 02:20 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
It's not even that. Why do you have to compare Toronto with Chicago? Can't Toronto have their own identity? No team will EVER be like another team. Every team has their own identity. You don't see me saying "The Oilers are the new Penguins". That's just silly because they both are not alike. Period. Let Toronto get it's own identity. Enough of the "Apples to Oranges" comparisons.
Why are we even comparing Toronto to anyone? When they win a playoff series, then we can start talking. Otherwise, they are like any of the handful of young talented teams who have potential. At least we waited until the Lightning actually accomplished something before we talked them up. Toronto can just as likely become the next Avs as well as the next Blackhawks. And I say this as one who really likes Auston Matthews' game.

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03-20-2017, 02:25 PM
  #829
Sens of Anarchy
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Originally Posted by leafs94 View Post
Yeah if a teams head coach thinks there is a comparison to be made it does warrant s thread, 40+ pages too.

Matthews is definitely comparable to Toews and Marner is definitely comparable to Kane (Matthew will be better than toews but Marner won't be better than Kane imo) There are striking similarities in the style of play, timing everything.

No one is saying we're gonna be a dynasty, but our mold is eerily similar to the Blackhawks. If you can't see the similarities I don't know what to say.
Mold?

Leafs drafted 2 high end forwards that happened to coincide with the Leafs Tank... So did the Hawks... you are saying that is a mold ok... if that's all it takes sure.
The comparison to a dynasty like the Hawks is silly. 2 or 3 very good young players does not necessarily translate to winning a Stanley Cup never mind becoming the a dynasty.

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03-20-2017, 02:26 PM
  #830
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I think some people aren't getting it. They look at the 2016-2017 Leafs and compare them to the 2016-2017 Blackhawks. Uh. This is not what this is all about.

Its comparing 2016-2017 Leafs to the 2007-2008 Blackhawks. Just look at that one year.

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03-20-2017, 02:29 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Nizdizzle View Post
People just get upset because its the Leafs and don't understand what a comparison is. Saying "the Leafs look like the Blackhawks when they started to turn around" isn't the same as saying "Leafs are exactly the same at every position, guaranteed 3 cups in the next decade". There are differences, it isn't a player-by-player carbon copy. There are similarities, going to need a bunch of things to go right in order to replicate even a bit of what the Hawks did, but sure there are similar things.

Saying "Let them win 3 cups then come talk to me" is asinine. This isn't the history of hockey board. Posters just need to calm down and not make massive leaps about Leaf fans thinking we're a guaranteed cup winner just because someone thinks the teams have some parallels (that even their own coach brought up, unprompted).

That said, I realize there a few bad apples among the Leaf fanbase that do post ridiculous things like the Leafs will be a dynasty/Instant cup favourites....etc. You just need to tune them out like we do with the bad posters from your fanbases (they exist!).
Actually this sums up my sentiments perfectly.

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03-20-2017, 02:30 PM
  #832
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I don't see them winning three Cups in a six year span without their own version of Duncan Keith. But yes, they'll be a very good team very soon.

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03-20-2017, 02:30 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by S2S View Post
I think some people aren't getting it. They look at the 2016-2017 Leafs and compare them to the 2016-2017 Blackhawks. Uh. This is not what this is all about.

Its comparing 2016-2017 Leafs to the 2007-2008 Blackhawks. Just look at that one year.
But that's my point! Apples to Oranges. There is no similarities! Let them make their own identity. Why shadow someone elses? Stats are stats. They don't dictate the team. Do stats show how much leadership is in the room? Does it dictate experience? Does it dictate how big or small a guy plays? It doesn't. Let it drop and let them just grow as their own identity.

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03-20-2017, 02:48 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by S2S View Post
I think some people aren't getting it. They look at the 2016-2017 Leafs and compare them to the 2016-2017 Blackhawks. Uh. This is not what this is all about.

Its comparing 2016-2017 Leafs to the 2007-2008 Blackhawks. Just look at that one year.
Not exactly. Yes, it's comparing the 16/17 Leafs with the 07/08 Hawks - but then it's also trying to project the 16/17 Leafs and compare that projection to what the Hawks have done after the 07/08 season. I think many posts in this thread have more of a problem with that projection of what the Leafs will do in the upcoming years than with the acknowledgment that the Leafs have a very nice young core that may be able to become a great team.

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03-20-2017, 02:48 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by S2S View Post
I think some people aren't getting it. They look at the 2016-2017 Leafs and compare them to the 2016-2017 Blackhawks. Uh. This is not what this is all about.

Its comparing 2016-2017 Leafs to the 2007-2008 Blackhawks. Just look at that one year.
So they're similar to one season of the Hawks? Or is someone actually trying to use the logic that they'll continue on the same path after that? And if it's the former, then what's the point of comparing them to a team that didn't make the playoffs? I mean you could use a lot of examples in that case.

If it's the latter, what have the Leafs done to show anyone that they will continue on a similar path?

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03-20-2017, 02:54 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
Not exactly. Yes, it's comparing the 16/17 Leafs with the 07/08 Hawks - but then it's also trying to project the 16/17 Leafs and compare that projection to what the Hawks have done after the 07/08 season. I think many posts in this thread have more of a problem with that projection of what the Leafs will do in the upcoming years than with the acknowledgment that the Leafs have a very nice young core that may be able to become a great team.
^^ over zealous projections ... easy enough for most to understand

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03-20-2017, 02:55 PM
  #837
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Maybe ?

</thread.>

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03-20-2017, 05:29 PM
  #838
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I actually think Matthews/Marner are the best 1f1 comparable to a Kane/Toews in the league, not saying either of them will win 3 cups, or have the team success they've had. But I think, taking everything into account -- these two measure up potentially very well to Kane/Toews -- though I think Marner falls short of Kane's success, but Matthews becomes a more impactful offensive player than Toews has shown. Just my bias opinion.

But that's where the comparables end for Leafs ----> Hawks, well for me. Rielly won't be a Keith, and Leafs won't win 3 cups in the span the Hawks did (though I hope they do).

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03-20-2017, 05:36 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
I actually think Matthews/Marner are the best 1f1 comparable to a Kane/Toews in the league, not saying either of them will win 3 cups, or have the team success they've had. But I think, taking everything into account -- these two measure up potentially very well to Kane/Toews -- though I think Marner falls short of Kane's success, but Matthews becomes a more impactful offensive player than Toews has shown. Just my bias opinion.

But that's where the comparables end for Leafs ----> Hawks, well for me. Rielly won't be a Keith, and Leafs won't win 3 cups in the span the Hawks did (though I hope they do).


Bergeron-Marchand are the best 1f1 comparable to Kane-Toews.

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03-20-2017, 05:41 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Rp477 View Post
Bergeron-Marchand are the best 1f1 comparable to Kane-Toews.
Nah they don't play anything alike really, and I meant young(ish) duos. Bergeron and Marchard are seasoned vets.

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Old
03-20-2017, 05:50 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
It's not even that. Why do you have to compare Toronto with Chicago? Can't Toronto have their own identity? No team will EVER be like another team. Every team has their own identity. You don't see me saying "The Oilers are the new Penguins". That's just silly because they both are not alike. Period. Let Toronto get it's own identity. Enough of the "Apples to Oranges" comparisons.
Totally. The rebuild model is going to be put in management textbooks. I honestly think people will be asking who the "new Leafs" are in 10 years.

#WeTheNorth

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03-20-2017, 05:52 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by S2S View Post
I think some people aren't getting it. They look at the 2016-2017 Leafs and compare them to the 2016-2017 Blackhawks. Uh. This is not what this is all about.

Its comparing 2016-2017 Leafs to the 2007-2008 Blackhawks. Just look at that one year.
Great, they look like a team that finished 19th overall in the league.

Threadworthy?

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Old
03-20-2017, 07:23 PM
  #843
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Great, they look like a team that finished 19th overall in the league.

Threadworthy?
Think people are taking a look at the development curve.

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03-20-2017, 07:24 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by S2S View Post
I think some people aren't getting it. They look at the 2016-2017 Leafs and compare them to the 2016-2017 Blackhawks. Uh. This is not what this is all about.

Its comparing 2016-2017 Leafs to the 2007-2008 Blackhawks. Just look at that one year.


And that's an awful comparison. The 'Hawks were stacked with not only the young core but an insane young depth chart and a couple top Free Agents. Now, regardless of what you think about Toronto's cast & crew....

Go watch the Hawks in those first two turnaround seasons.

Toronto is a young team with some talent who wins with smart play & coaching.

Hawks were a young incredibly sloppy team who run & gunned their way to a WCF & a cup win on talent. They didn't just have Keith moving the puck, Campbell was in his prime too. Much different than the disciplined team they soon became after that. IMO, Hawks were an anomaly and certainly not a pattern to follow, too many things fell into place.

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Old
03-20-2017, 07:32 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Sens of Anarchy View Post
^^ over zealous projections ... easy enough for most to understand
Exhibit A

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Old
03-20-2017, 07:33 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by Rp477 View Post
Bergeron-Marchand are the best 1f1 comparable to Kane-Toews.
Lol what on earth, begeron does not play like toews at all

And Kane and Marchand???? LOOL

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03-20-2017, 07:33 PM
  #847
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A couple things the Hawks had that the Leafs don't were an uncritical media and a new, trauma-free fanbase. Leafs will have more of a Cubs style festival of dread.

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03-20-2017, 09:03 PM
  #848
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I actually think Matthews/Marner are the best 1f1 comparable to a Kane/Toews in the league, not saying either of them will win 3 cups, or have the team success they've had.
I still remember people here saying that was Monahan and Gaudreau and the Flames were on the rise. And that was with Brodie looking like a potential Keith with Giordano already.

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03-20-2017, 09:06 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Ubi Sunt View Post
A couple things the Hawks had that the Leafs don't were an uncritical media and a new, trauma-free fanbase. Leafs will have more of a Cubs style festival of dread.
Chicago had a Stanley Cup drought of 48 years, and were just getting over the Wirtz effect.

How was Chicago's fanbase trauma-free?

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Old
03-28-2017, 04:01 PM
  #850
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1st off, sorry for bumping this

2nd, Florida GM/Interm HC Tom Rowe also agrees


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