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Are the Leafs the new Blackhawks?

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:39 PM
  #101
EbonyRaptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafs94 View Post
Matthews>Toews
Marner<=Kane
Maybe you should let Matthews and Marner actually complete a regular season before you judge Matthews to be better than Toews and Marner to be almost equal to Kane. And then maybe you should wait until Matthews and Marner play a few playoff series to see what kind of playoffs performers they are. Kane has scored 121 points in 123 playoff games and Toews has 108 points in 124 playoff games and both have won Conn Smythes.

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03-08-2017, 09:41 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
I love in this thread how fans who last year laughed and said the Leafs would not sniff the playoffs for 5 + years are now laughing again saying the Leafs don't have much of a future.

Leafs are the closest to the Hawks model. That brilliant Kadri deal was a Chicago like move.

Poor haters. Never quite able to judge the Leafs because they hate them o.
5000 posts in less than a month and not even one of them has been well though out. Your disappointment will be remarkable.

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:48 PM
  #103
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5000 posts in less than a month and not even one of them has been well though out. Your disappointment will be remarkable.
Its 2017 I appreciate the irony though

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:50 PM
  #104
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Its 2017
Whoops...

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Godot View Post
Hahaha what?

Win three cups and get back to me.
What's funny is this isn't even the first time this has been a thread.

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:54 PM
  #106
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Maybe they get Doughty in a couple years?

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:56 PM
  #107
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"Marner<=Kane"



Man this thread has some gems.

Keep it up guys, please.

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Old
03-08-2017, 09:59 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
The blackhawks are actually the new blackhawks. Schmaltz/debrincat = the new toews/kane. Keith = the new keith as he is ageless.
Greatest. Post. Ever.

No the Leafs aren't the new Hawks. They never will be the Hawks and trying to compare them to the Hawks is embarrassing.

But, the good news is, they are the Leafs. They have a rather good young forward core to go along with an underrated defense that should be better in the next few years. Give them time.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Hmmm - I'm pre-disposed to getting grumpy over Hawks comparisons, but the Leafs are the team I like most after the Hawks.

What I'd say is I don't see the Leafs having the d-core the Hawks had as of right now.

Keep in mind things can turn around fast...Hawks went from drafting Kane 1OA (although they weren't last in the league that season, they won the lottery) to winning the cup in 3 seasons - and after they got to the WCF in '09 (2 yrs post-Kane) that got them Hossa (yes, I realize Hossa doesn't play defense - but my point is that when you get 'close' it's much easier to attract top talent).

The Leafs have exceeded expectations with their youngest forwards this season (even though Marner and Matthews were always great it's hard to ignore they've done even better than expected) - they will need to slog through next season and keep it up - but imo there's nothing about either that suggests it's some fluke season.
This is pretty much it.

First Toews/Kane year they barely missed the playoffs. At that time, based on the 10 years preceding it I would've been thrilled just to make the playoffs in '08-'09. To win a couple rounds was fantastic - to win the Cup the year after was incredible.

But if you would've said halfway through the '07-'08 season that by the end of the next season:

- Andrew Ladd (who was just acquired for Ruutu), Dave Bolland (40 NHL GP at end of '07-'08) and Martin Havlat (hadn't played more than 56 games in a season since 2003) would become one of, if not the, most dynamic two way lines in the league,

- Nikolai Khabibulin would make a momentary (contract year related) return to his pre-lockout form,

- Brent Seabrook would make the leap to a 23 minute per night legitimate #2 d-man, and

- Kris Versteeg would go from random waiver claim to finish 4th in team scoring (behind Havlat, Toews and Kane)...

Well, anyone who says that is one hell of a fortune teller. And then going forward another year, to think Hossa would come, Hjalmarsson would become a legitimate top four d-man, Antti Niemi would be the starting goalie etc...its impossible. There's so many possible branches that any franchise goes down in a two year period that you can't just say 'oh well Matthews/Marner = Toews/Kane, Rielly = Keith and then all the depth guys are equivalent'. You need to have the top guys and then be so lucky to be able to win. The Leafs could be the next Chicago. They could win a Cup and then just kind of stagnate for awhile after it (Pittsburgh, or the 60's Hawks). They could be the next consistently good team that never wins (San Jose). They could be a team that looks like they're on the verge of being really good and then never take the next step (Tampa Bay, to this point). They could implode in a fiery rage of hilarity (too many teams to name). There's no natural progression in this league.

But there's another thing here - the 2010 roster was so stacked because Toews/Kane were still on their ELC's. It was so important for them to win that year - if they lose in 2010 (if Martin Erat isn't a moron in Game 5?), there's still a cap purge and we saw how the next two years went. Then maybe Kane has a little less leeway for his post-2012 season exploits.

So my honest opinion here - it sounds kind of dumb, but the Leafs 'first' window has this season and two more after it. That's it. It gets a hell of a lot harder to win the instant that those guys move onto their second contracts. Not much of a Leaf fan myself but hopefully their management is able to see that and they make some impact moves this offseason.

tl;dr - when you're in a salary cap league and you have a bunch of elite talent on ELC's, life comes at you real fast

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:41 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaub View Post
This is pretty much it.

First Toews/Kane year they barely missed the playoffs. At that time, based on the 10 years preceding it I would've been thrilled just to make the playoffs in '08-'09. To win a couple rounds was fantastic - to win the Cup the year after was incredible.

But if you would've said halfway through the '07-'08 season that by the end of the next season:

- Andrew Ladd (who was just acquired for Ruutu), Dave Bolland (40 NHL GP at end of '07-'08) and Martin Havlat (hadn't played more than 56 games in a season since 2003) would become one of, if not the, most dynamic two way lines in the league,

- Nikolai Khabibulin would make a momentary (contract year related) return to his pre-lockout form,

- Brent Seabrook would make the leap to a 23 minute per night legitimate #2 d-man, and

- Kris Versteeg would go from random waiver claim to finish 4th in team scoring (behind Havlat, Toews and Kane)...

Well, anyone who says that is one hell of a fortune teller. And then going forward another year, to think Hossa would come, Hjalmarsson would become a legitimate top four d-man, Antti Niemi would be the starting goalie etc...its impossible. There's so many possible branches that any franchise goes down in a two year period that you can't just say 'oh well Matthews/Marner = Toews/Kane, Rielly = Keith and then all the depth guys are equivalent'. You need to have the top guys and then be so lucky to be able to win. The Leafs could be the next Chicago. They could win a Cup and then just kind of stagnate for awhile after it (Pittsburgh, or the 60's Hawks). They could be the next consistently good team that never wins (San Jose). They could be a team that looks like they're on the verge of being really good and then never take the next step (Tampa Bay, to this point). They could implode in a fiery rage of hilarity (too many teams to name). There's no natural progression in this league.

But there's another thing here - the 2010 roster was so stacked because Toews/Kane were still on their ELC's. It was so important for them to win that year - if they lose in 2010 (if Martin Erat isn't a moron in Game 5?), there's still a cap purge and we saw how the next two years went. Then maybe Kane has a little less leeway for his post-2012 season exploits.

So my honest opinion here - it sounds kind of dumb, but the Leafs 'first' window has this season and two more after it. That's it. It gets a hell of a lot harder to win the instant that those guys move onto their second contracts. Not much of a Leaf fan myself but hopefully their management is able to see that and they make some impact moves this offseason.

tl;dr - when you're in a salary cap league and you have a bunch of elite talent on ELC's, life comes at you real fast
Yep - well said.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:48 PM
  #111
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The Leafs

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:52 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaub View Post
This is pretty much it.

First Toews/Kane year they barely missed the playoffs. At that time, based on the 10 years preceding it I would've been thrilled just to make the playoffs in '08-'09. To win a couple rounds was fantastic - to win the Cup the year after was incredible.

But if you would've said halfway through the '07-'08 season that by the end of the next season:

- Andrew Ladd (who was just acquired for Ruutu), Dave Bolland (40 NHL GP at end of '07-'08) and Martin Havlat (hadn't played more than 56 games in a season since 2003) would become one of, if not the, most dynamic two way lines in the league,

- Nikolai Khabibulin would make a momentary (contract year related) return to his pre-lockout form,

- Brent Seabrook would make the leap to a 23 minute per night legitimate #2 d-man, and

- Kris Versteeg would go from random waiver claim to finish 4th in team scoring (behind Havlat, Toews and Kane)...

Well, anyone who says that is one hell of a fortune teller. And then going forward another year, to think Hossa would come, Hjalmarsson would become a legitimate top four d-man, Antti Niemi would be the starting goalie etc...its impossible. There's so many possible branches that any franchise goes down in a two year period that you can't just say 'oh well Matthews/Marner = Toews/Kane, Rielly = Keith and then all the depth guys are equivalent'. You need to have the top guys and then be so lucky to be able to win. The Leafs could be the next Chicago. They could win a Cup and then just kind of stagnate for awhile after it (Pittsburgh, or the 60's Hawks). They could be the next consistently good team that never wins (San Jose). They could be a team that looks like they're on the verge of being really good and then never take the next step (Tampa Bay, to this point). They could implode in a fiery rage of hilarity (too many teams to name). There's no natural progression in this league.

But there's another thing here - the 2010 roster was so stacked because Toews/Kane were still on their ELC's. It was so important for them to win that year - if they lose in 2010 (if Martin Erat isn't a moron in Game 5?), there's still a cap purge and we saw how the next two years went. Then maybe Kane has a little less leeway for his post-2012 season exploits.

So my honest opinion here - it sounds kind of dumb, but the Leafs 'first' window has this season and two more after it. That's it. It gets a hell of a lot harder to win the instant that those guys move onto their second contracts. Not much of a Leaf fan myself but hopefully their management is able to see that and they make some impact moves this offseason.

tl;dr - when you're in a salary cap league and you have a bunch of elite talent on ELC's, life comes at you real fast
Think this is the best summary I've seen in the thread.

They're similar in that they have young, top-end talent and need to take advantage of that situation while they can.

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Old
03-08-2017, 10:57 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaub View Post
This is pretty much it.

First Toews/Kane year they barely missed the playoffs. At that time, based on the 10 years preceding it I would've been thrilled just to make the playoffs in '08-'09. To win a couple rounds was fantastic - to win the Cup the year after was incredible.

But if you would've said halfway through the '07-'08 season that by the end of the next season:

- Andrew Ladd (who was just acquired for Ruutu), Dave Bolland (40 NHL GP at end of '07-'08) and Martin Havlat (hadn't played more than 56 games in a season since 2003) would become one of, if not the, most dynamic two way lines in the league,

- Nikolai Khabibulin would make a momentary (contract year related) return to his pre-lockout form,

- Brent Seabrook would make the leap to a 23 minute per night legitimate #2 d-man, and

- Kris Versteeg would go from random waiver claim to finish 4th in team scoring (behind Havlat, Toews and Kane)...

Well, anyone who says that is one hell of a fortune teller. And then going forward another year, to think Hossa would come, Hjalmarsson would become a legitimate top four d-man, Antti Niemi would be the starting goalie etc...its impossible. There's so many possible branches that any franchise goes down in a two year period that you can't just say 'oh well Matthews/Marner = Toews/Kane, Rielly = Keith and then all the depth guys are equivalent'. You need to have the top guys and then be so lucky to be able to win. The Leafs could be the next Chicago. They could win a Cup and then just kind of stagnate for awhile after it (Pittsburgh, or the 60's Hawks). They could be the next consistently good team that never wins (San Jose). They could be a team that looks like they're on the verge of being really good and then never take the next step (Tampa Bay, to this point). They could implode in a fiery rage of hilarity (too many teams to name). There's no natural progression in this league.

But there's another thing here - the 2010 roster was so stacked because Toews/Kane were still on their ELC's. It was so important for them to win that year - if they lose in 2010 (if Martin Erat isn't a moron in Game 5?), there's still a cap purge and we saw how the next two years went. Then maybe Kane has a little less leeway for his post-2012 season exploits.

So my honest opinion here - it sounds kind of dumb, but the Leafs 'first' window has this season and two more after it. That's it. It gets a hell of a lot harder to win the instant that those guys move onto their second contracts. Not much of a Leaf fan myself but hopefully their management is able to see that and they make some impact moves this offseason.

tl;dr - when you're in a salary cap league and you have a bunch of elite talent on ELC's, life comes at you real fast
This! Nobody is saying the Leafs are the Hawks, but there are similarities. It will take sound management, development and luck for the Leafs to achieve what the Hawks have achieved. Things look promising, but theirs still much to be done.

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Old
03-08-2017, 11:42 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
How was Keith at 23?
Talk about some confirmation bias. Did a future HOF'er look like a HOF'er at 23? No? That means that my guy will turn intoa HOF'er as well.

For every Keith there are 50 guys that turn into solid 2nd or 3rd pairing dmen. And please note that I am not saying that Reilly is going to end up a #3-4 type of dman, but that is much more likely than him turning into Keith.

The reason the Leafs could become a legit contender has more to do with a quality front office. Leafs have started to develop talent (beyond M&M), which is what it takes IMO to be a consistent contender. The challenge is that the bar set in this thread isn't realistic, as it takes some ridiculous luck to win 3 Cups even with a stacked roster.

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Old
03-09-2017, 12:00 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
Crawford is good but not elite. Same as Andersen.
Niemi was one of the worst goalies on a cup team ever.
You obviously don't watch the Hawks. As in not at all.

Ridiculous. As if the rest of your drivel wasn't already.

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Old
03-09-2017, 12:02 AM
  #116
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Andersen is now Crawford? Alrighty then.

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Originally Posted by ChiTownCode View Post
I think the comparison is fine, I don't find it insulting or anything but I do think Leaf fans should take it as it comes instead of shooting for the moon with expectations.
Which one? Titan? It's not even just the players. The salary cap rules are different now, and the Blackhawks have been an unfathomably healthy team.

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Old
03-09-2017, 12:53 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by wewillrise View Post
kadri=byfuglein
nylander > hossa
hyman > ladd
zitsev > hjalmarsson
brown > brouwer
bozak = sharp
hahahahahaha!

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Old
03-09-2017, 01:13 AM
  #118
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Lol no.

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03-09-2017, 01:18 AM
  #119
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Once 2 or 3 of their dmen develop into #1's and they sign one of the best two-way wingers in the game as a free agent, they will be the new Hawks. Until then, no, they are nothing more than Buffalo is or Florida was a couple years ago or even Colorado was a couple years ago

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Old
03-09-2017, 01:20 AM
  #120
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Reilly is a #1 the Leafs needa a #2

and yes they are on that track

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03-09-2017, 01:23 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by HeyConnorItsMess View Post
hahahahahaha!
Brown VS Brouwer is not a bad comparison

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Old
03-09-2017, 01:29 AM
  #122
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Nope.

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Old
03-09-2017, 01:34 AM
  #123
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They might have some similar pieces and they could make it happen. I doubt it though. Mainly because of Toronto media and the pressure that is already building.

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03-09-2017, 01:37 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by hirawl View Post
They might have some similar pieces and they could make it happen. I doubt it though. Mainly because of Toronto media and the pressure that is already building.
The Media won't have a thing to do with the success or failure of this team

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03-09-2017, 01:38 AM
  #125
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I literally made this thread in December. Can this be merged into my thread? I see a lot of the same stuff from my Thread being recycled. Don't see a need to re-hash the same stuff for another 22 pages, but it might be good to update the discussion there with what's gone on the last few months. Here is the link to the thread I made - http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...ghlight=remind


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