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Chevy Discussions [next moves, his future, etc] - Part III

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Old
03-09-2017, 07:43 AM
  #1
Guerzy
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Chevy Discussions [next moves, his future, etc] - Part III

Posts from the end of the last thread and threads Part I and II...

Chevy Discussions - Part I

Chevy Discussions - Part II


Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
Opportunity has been squandered. The sweet spot for the Jets to contend would've been this year and next couple of years while Ehlers, Laine, Trouba, Morrissey are all on cheap contracts. And Little/Wheeler are underpaid relative to their value. Blown now.

The new core is not guaranteed to have more success than the old core either. For one, the new core is all more expensive than the old core. Scheifele already making more than Little ever did, Ehlers will make more than Ladd was, Laine is gonna make more than Wheeler, Trouba is gonna make more than Buff prior to Buff's new contract. Morrissey might be the only one who makes less than his comparable on the older core- Enstrom. Will they be better enough than the old core to move the needle? Remains to be seen but it is looking ugly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
The problem: I get the feeling that Maurice has bought himself another year by "playing the kids". This inbuilt excuse is masking the fact that these kids (and this team) should be better than they are right now, and most of this falls on Maurice - the kids shouldn't BE the excuse.

Last night was a perfect example of this: Pens come out in the 2nd and make adjustments, and the whole team grinds to a halt - Jets can't exit after the Pens move to a 1-2-2 forecheck and start shutting down the NZ.

Then to top it off, we have our poor special teams play - the 3 PP goals was the differential, and our PP did nothing to even that differential.

These are systemic issues, not talent issues. And while Helle could have played better, I put the majority of that loss at the feet of Maurice again.

In the end, coaching is Chevy's responsibility to sort out. I doubt he allows Maurice to go into next season as a lame duck, so he'll get at least a year. In order for him to get moved out, Maurice will have to have a similar start to the season, by which point we may have yet another season to write off. Worries me, as Chevy has created a situation where it's almost impossible to reason how he'd make a coaching change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I still think we are giving the players too easy a pass.

Enstrom and Buff come out and give up two quick goals. Enstrom has become a shadow of himself this season. Maurice didn't coach it out of him. Buff has been erratic. I doubt Maurice is coaching him much different this season than last season, when he was an all-star.

Scheifele was manhandled on a one-on-one play in front of the net, after losing a face-off clean as a whistle. How is that on the coach?

For some reason, the Jets couldn't make or take a pass all night. Did someone steal their talent, or did they just lose focus (or maybe they were too focused on getting revenge for Wheeler)?

Hellebuyck remains a puzzle in net.

I think that there are real coaching issues with this team, but I also think that there are some question marks about some core positions, starting in goal and with the D.

Maybe a big trade is needed to shake up the core. There's just something not right with the team, and I don't think it's all on the coaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Way too early to expect this team to seriously contend. Which team outside of the Oilers of the early 80's were serious contenders when all their top players were still pre-prime? They have squandered a chance to sneak into the playoffs due to how weak the Western conference turned out to be. But I would have fully expected them to get run-over by the fully matured teams at the top of the conference.

No core is guaranteed success, but no core relies on a 18-23 y/o to win a cup. I don't see it as ugly. Look at the Pens that is what a team looks like when their top players all nicely in their primes. We are not competing seriously with the likes of that until the kids at least need to start shaving and at least 1 of them is capable of growing a playoff beard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Not getting the coaching sorted out is probably my biggest concern going into the off season. Maurice seems ill-suited to be the guy to pull the strings with a young talented team that relies on speed and puck movement. Instead we get caught in the middle with his preferred style of being a heavy grinding team when it doesn't fit his best players.

Next biggest concern would be spending another season hoping a young goalie is able to be a true #1 starter. You fix those 2 things we are well on our way and then you can start filling roster holes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
I don't lay it solely at the feet of the coaching staff, but I do think it's a bigger part of the problem - you make some good points that I won't try to deny, but for me: systems / coaching is a bigger issue.

Agree with the "something's not right with the team" - it's probably a combination of coaching/players. The team has a lot of talent - I think Chevy needs to figure out where the hell this team is going, and rebalance the talent to get us where we need to go. Gathering/farming is over - time to hunt, and turn some of the fruits of the drafting and trades into some bigger trades to address the roster, and to re-evaluate the coaching staff.



Yep. I think Helle can be a starter, but young goalies need some support from time to time. Bring in a proven goalie to backstop him, and give him the opportunity to work on issues - right now, it's game after game after game, with no time to address faults that they may see between games. This is on Chevy to solve this summer.

I love this team - I think it has a ton of talent. It frustrates the crap out of me to see such a talented team floundering like this, when a few small changes could change their fortunes very quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsUK View Post
I agree. But it's a very conservative, very Winnipeg management group. Slowly slowly, steady as she goes. I feel like even the very small changes might take longer than the team has before its window effectively closes, and even the perception that management is sluggish/disinterested must make it harder to retain important players and attract new ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
They laid an egg after the first 25 minutes last night, no question. But they had played excellent hockey in 8 of their preceeding 10 games. They get that type of ledger, 8 good performances out of 10 next year and the team takes a big step forward and makes the playoffs if some things are tweaked.

Coaching remains my biggest concern, most notably with regards to special teams. I can't comprehend how Moe has been this bad at implementing successful systems. I also share concerns that if we go into next season with him and we get off to a bad start we may be out of the picture again before righting the situation.

Beyond that our vets on defense have really let the team down this year. Buff has had his worst year as a vet and Toby has really decreased in effectiveness. I think Buff is back next season and has a better year but man do we need to bring in a babysitter for him this offseason. I think that has to be the biggest priority other than goaltending.

I also would like to see the bottom pairing get a makeover. Myers will help but bring in a good puck mover to play with him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
To be honest this is what worries me the most. The thought of another season down the drain next year, ugh, I don't even wanna think about it.

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Old
03-09-2017, 09:02 AM
  #2
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Chevy HAS to either make some player trades or a coaching change this summer , he can't just sit at his cabin and go into next season basically status quo . If he doesn't do anything this summer he has to be fired . Why is Chevy so daft when it comes to goaltending ? Get a veteran goalie like Halak or Fleury to be 1a with Helly 1b and see who gets the job . Right now Hutch isn't even a option to play once every 10 or 15 games , he is just god awful . And get a NEW GOALTENDING COACH !!!

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03-09-2017, 10:05 AM
  #3
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Do the Jets have a fan/supporters' group? This is pretty common in the UK, and while it doesn't always work, such a setup can be a way to exert some pressure on management beyond a beer boycott, etc. Here's a recent example regarding anti-Wenger protests at Arsenal FC:

https://www.theguardian.com/football...g-new-contract

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Old
03-09-2017, 11:02 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsUK View Post
Do the Jets have a fan/supporters' group? This is pretty common in the UK, and while it doesn't always work, such a setup can be a way to exert some pressure on management beyond a beer boycott, etc. Here's a recent example regarding anti-Wenger protests at Arsenal FC:

https://www.theguardian.com/football...g-new-contract
Doesn't always work? Can you give me an instance where it has worked? With attendance around 60,000, I can't see a couple of hundred malcontents influencing management.

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03-09-2017, 11:07 AM
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Where's the poll selection for "He hasn't done anything the fix goaltending IN SIX YEARS!!!!!"?

Edit:



Last edited by Evil Little: 03-09-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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Old
03-09-2017, 11:14 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody important View Post
Doesn't always work? Can you give me an instance where it has worked? With attendance around 60,000, I can't see a couple of hundred malcontents influencing management.
Sure. Supporters' groups have been successful in pushing agendas including club strategy in all sorts of places in the footy world, including in clubs the size of MU, Bayern Munich and Barca, as well as at a host of lower-league and local clubs. And they're not "a couple of hundred malcontents" -- Man U has groups in 50 countries. That's a lot of pushback, even if it's generally pretty restrained (though not always, see the protests against ownership changes at Man U, Liverpool. Leeds, etc). The Jets are an important part of the city, province and so on. Not sure why malingering or not buying beer/dogs at games should be where it ends.

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Old
03-09-2017, 11:15 AM
  #7
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With Poolman on the way (and assuming he's at least a solid 3rd D), would you guys think Buff becomes expendable for a reliable left shot D+? Right side depth, Trouba Myers and Poolman. Go out and try to find a very good LD2. Drop Enstrom to third line and play him with big Poolman.

Personally, I'd prefer a lineup like that to push for playoffs and when we are in, go deep. I love Buff but I don't know if he's reliable enough to play consistent for the duration of a run to the cup final.
We also move his 7+ million and make a little more room for Little and Wheeler to re sign in the near future. With our young forward assuming to only get better, scoring shouldn't be an issue thus making Buff's strength less important.

I'd really look at Anaheim as a trade partner. Imagine if we could get a guy like Lindholm. He would make 5.2M but still cheaper than Buff. We could probably squeak out a prospect or a pick with that trade too.
That's just an example but that's the approach I think we should take if we want to win and go deep in the playoffs.

J.MO - Trouba
Lindholm - Myers
Enstrom - Poolman

Thoughts? Would Chevy even have the sack to make a trade like this?

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Old
03-09-2017, 11:15 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Where's the poll selection for "He hasn't done anything the fix goaltending IN SIX YEARS!!!!!"?
The Pavelec contract prevented him from doing so.

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Old
03-09-2017, 11:16 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Where's the poll selection for "He hasn't done anything the fix goaltending IN SIX YEARS!!!!!"?
He has done some things.

Signed Montoya
Signed Hutchinson
Traded for Budaj
Drafted Hellebuyck & Comrie among others

It's not that he hasn't done anything. It's that he hasn't solved the problem yet. He had his albatross Pavelec contract limiting his options........until now. We'll see what happens this offseason.

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03-09-2017, 11:17 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM View Post
With Poolman on the way (and assuming he's at least a solid 3rd D), would you guys think Buff becomes expendable for a reliable left shot D+? Right side depth, Trouba Myers and Poolman. Go out and try to find a very good LD2. Drop Enstrom to third line and play him with big Poolman.

Personally, I'd prefer a lineup like that to push for playoffs and when we are in, go deep. I love Buff but I don't know if he's reliable enough to play consistent for the duration of a run to the cup final.
We also move his 7+ million and make a little more room for Little and Wheeler to re sign in the near future. With our young forward assuming to only get better, scoring shouldn't be an issue thus making Buff's strength less important.

I'd really look at Anaheim as a trade partner. Imagine if we could get a guy like Lindholm. He would make 5.2M but still cheaper than Buff. We could probably squeak out a prospect or a pick with that trade too.
That's just an example but that's the approach I think we should take if we want to win and go deep in the playoffs.

J.MO - Trouba
Lindholm - Myers
Enstrom - Poolman

Thoughts? Would Chevy even have the sack to make a trade like this?
I'd move Buff for Lindholm in a second. But IMO it's the Jets adding, not the Ducks. And something significant.

Plus, the Ducks have good RHD. I don't think they are that interested in adding a contract that large to that position. If their adding that much salary, I think it's for help up front.

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Old
03-09-2017, 11:22 AM
  #11
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We need D who play D. We have enough scoring up front and more waiting on the Moose. Our biggest need is stay at home D and Goaltending. I don't think we lose any ground at all replacing Buff and Enstrom for two young steady D.

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Old
03-09-2017, 11:31 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I'd move Buff for Lindholm in a second. But IMO it's the Jets adding, not the Ducks. And something significant.

Plus, the Ducks have good RHD. I don't think they are that interested in adding a contract that large to that position. If their adding that much salary, I think it's for help up front.
They do have good right D, but I think they would prefer Buff ahead of Bieksa as their 1st line guy.
They're also 20th in the league in scoring, so by adding Buff you're getting similar offensive production to a good forward (50+ points a season) to help with that.

How significant would our add be, Roslo?

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03-09-2017, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
We need D who play D. We have enough scoring up front and more waiting on the Moose. Our biggest need is stay at home D and Goaltending. I don't think we lose any ground at all replacing Buff and Enstrom for two young steady D.
Maybe, but both Justin Schultz and Trevor Daley went to a ring sizer last summer and neither of them have ever been accused of playing it too safe defensively.

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03-09-2017, 12:08 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
We need D who play D. We have enough scoring up front and more waiting on the Moose. Our biggest need is stay at home D and Goaltending. I don't think we lose any ground at all replacing Buff and Enstrom for two young steady D.
I don't think we need stay at home dmen but I think we need a couple of good two way guys. I think we have 2 in making Trouba and Morrissey but we need 2 more imo. Toby used to be one but he's declining quickly so needs to be replaced.

I hear Poolman has a fairly well developed all around game so he might be the solution for the bottom pair but that still leaves Chevy needing to bring someone in to play with Buff on the 2nd pairing. I know Buff's play this year has pissed a lot of people off but I still want to keep his elite offense on the team, I also figure he won't be this bad next season.

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03-09-2017, 12:20 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
We need D who play D. We have enough scoring up front and more waiting on the Moose. Our biggest need is stay at home D and Goaltending. I don't think we lose any ground at all replacing Buff and Enstrom for two young steady D.
When you see a Hainsey, or Oduya, having success with Stanley Cup winning teams, you realize that having all that firepower on the back end can be a negative.

I for one am getting tired of all the odd man rushes and breakaways that we give up consistently game in, game out. If your strenght is your skilled forwards, you shouldnt need all 6 of your D being puck moving offensive players, it becomes redundant and a negative.

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03-09-2017, 12:24 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBM View Post
They do have good right D, but I think they would prefer Buff ahead of Bieksa as their 1st line guy.
They're also 20th in the league in scoring, so by adding Buff you're getting similar offensive production to a good forward (50+ points a season) to help with that.

How significant would our add be, Roslo?
Bieksa isn't their 1st pair D. (Shouldn't be anyway). They have Vatanen, Manson, and Montour on the way.

Their scoring issues are likely why I would think they would want to use the money on forwards and not on a player like Buff.

But to your question, if for some reason they were interested, I would add Roslovic. to be honest, I'm not sure that would be enough.

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03-09-2017, 12:35 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBoJangelz71 View Post
When you see a Hainsey, or Oduya, having success with Stanley Cup winning teams, you realize that having all that firepower on the back end can be a negative.

I for one am getting tired of all the odd man rushes and breakaways that we give up consistently game in, game out. If your strenght is your skilled forwards, you shouldnt need all 6 of your D being puck moving offensive players, it becomes redundant and a negative.
I think you want all 6 to be puck movers with regards to breaking the puck out your end or through the NZ. They don't all have to be aggressive offensively though.

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03-09-2017, 12:50 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I think you want all 6 to be puck movers with regards to breaking the puck out your end or through the NZ. They don't all have to be aggressive offensively though.
Yes why not get the puck out quickly and efficiently so the team spends less time and energy defending?

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03-09-2017, 01:24 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I'd move Buff for Lindholm in a second. But IMO it's the Jets adding, not the Ducks. And something significant.

Plus, the Ducks have good RHD. I don't think they are that interested in adding a contract that large to that position. If their adding that much salary, I think it's for help up front.
Yep, I'd be very keen on moving Buff ASAP. Unfortunately it won't be before the end of next season when his NMC becomes a modified NTC. At that point, he still will have 3 more years, so lets hope he does better next year & at least gives them the option -- personally, don't ever see Chevy doing it just because we're talking Chevy here.

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03-09-2017, 01:28 PM
  #20
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There's a difference between puck rushing and puck movers. I agree mostly with what bojangelz is saying. We don't need to be drafting or signing defense for their offensive prowess at the nhl level. We need defensemen that can defend well positionally and can pass the puck well.

We should be moving away from the Bogo and Myers types whose best attribute is rushing the puck to create offense.

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03-09-2017, 01:51 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by CaptainChef View Post
Yep, I'd be very keen on moving Buff ASAP. Unfortunately it won't be before the end of next season when his NMC becomes a modified NTC. At that point, he still will have 3 more years, so lets hope he does better next year & at least gives them the option -- personally, don't ever see Chevy doing it just because we're talking Chevy here.
fixing buffs issues like roving is easier to do than trading him and replacing all the good that he does with a dman who is chronically injured all the time.

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03-09-2017, 01:53 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I think you want all 6 to be puck movers with regards to breaking the puck out your end or through the NZ. They don't all have to be aggressive offensively though.
I agree, as long as they are moving it via passing to avoid getting caught up ice and putting us in bad situations.

Not saying I want dmen that can only pass the puck out, opposed to skating it out, rather dmen that prefer to get the puck up to the forwards and allow for our skilled forwards to have possession when entering the offensive zone

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03-09-2017, 01:54 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Where's the poll selection for "He hasn't done anything the fix goaltending IN SIX YEARS!!!!!"?

Edit:

List of franchises that have done less than the Cheveldayoff-managed Winnipeg Jets to improve their bottom 5 goaltending since the moon landing:



/list.

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03-09-2017, 02:23 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Blue Shakehead View Post
List of franchises that have done less than the Cheveldayoff-managed Winnipeg Jets to improve their bottom 5 goaltending since the moon landing:



/list.
That looks right and I'm not even going to fact-check it. I also don't think that Pavelec's contract was a good excuse. Sure he was overpaid, but it's not like he had a cap hit of 6 million or anything. There were opportunities to buy it out or bury it.

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03-09-2017, 03:57 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by McDLT View Post
That looks right and I'm not even going to fact-check it. I also don't think that Pavelec's contract was a good excuse. Sure he was overpaid, but it's not like he had a cap hit of 6 million or anything. There were opportunities to buy it out or bury it.
Dallas made their's worse so that's something to hang our hat on

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