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Chevy Discussions [next moves, his future, etc] - Part III

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Old
03-10-2017, 10:00 AM
  #76
Ducky10
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Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
Not to speak for anyone else, but it seems like the underlying message from most of us is that we have higher expectations for next season. That there is enough talent on the team (with a few changes) to actually make a splash next season.

I for one will be expecting much more success next year and will be very upset if the small, logical adjustments aren't made to allow us that success.
The biggest chance to make a splash starts in the crease, if that isn't addressed I don't hold out much hope. Helle has to be more consistent and whoever Chevy signs needs to be able to step up when needed and challenge, and Flaherty needs to be gone.

If that happens and they're still treading water, tie a can to Maurice, it's all on him.

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03-10-2017, 10:06 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Ducky10 View Post
The biggest chance to make a splash starts in the crease, if that isn't addressed I don't hold out much hope. Helle has to be more consistent and whoever Chevy signs needs to be able to step up when needed and challenge, and Flaherty needs to be gone.

If that happens and they're still treading water, tie a can to Maurice, it's all on him.
I don't think that enhancing the goaltending is sufficient. The Jets have had real problems on defense. Enstrom has been regressing for a few years, and had a pretty disastrous season by his standards. That has really dragged the top 4 down, which has been compounded by an erratic season from Buff. I think the Jets really need to try to shore up the top-4 with a very good LHD who can pair with Buff and allow Enstrom to move down the line-up, if required.

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03-10-2017, 10:08 AM
  #78
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I fully expect thor to be resigned. many (not me!) thought he'd be pressbox fodder this year though - i would still expect him to be in 50% of the games next year. I'd probably be torn on whether to be mad at chevy if this happens or maurice... maurice ultimately decides usage, but why even tempt him chevy?
Pretty safe to say that if Thorburn is signed again then Chevy and Maurice are both idiots, because Chevy wouldn't sign him if Maurice didn't want him.

On the flip side, not signing Thorburn does not prove that Chevy and Maurice are not idiots.

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03-10-2017, 10:12 AM
  #79
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I don't think that enhancing the goaltending is sufficient. The Jets have had real problems on defense. Enstrom has been regressing for a few years, and had a pretty disastrous season by his standards. That has really dragged the top 4 down, which has been compounded by an erratic season from Buff. I think the Jets really need to try to shore up the top-4 with a very good LHD who can pair with Buff and allow Enstrom to move down the line-up, if required.
I agree. I don't think that finding a decent challenger for Helle should be impossible nor should finding a good LHD, considering the assets that we have available. We should be able to make both of those things happen. Then coaching just has to convince Buff to play a responsible game.

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03-10-2017, 10:17 AM
  #80
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I don't think that enhancing the goaltending is sufficient. The Jets have had real problems on defense. Enstrom has been regressing for a few years, and had a pretty disastrous season by his standards. That has really dragged the top 4 down, which has been compounded by an erratic season from Buff. I think the Jets really need to try to shore up the top-4 with a very good LHD who can pair with Buff and allow Enstrom to move down the line-up, if required.
I agree. We need a partner that can cover for Buff but we also need Buff to get his head out of his ass. Next season I expect Chevy and Mo to attempt to woo Trouba by giving him the top pairing RHD minutes in an attempt to get him locked up long term. This will reduce Buff's minutes all over the ice so we may see a Buff that doesn't think he has to do so much and gets back to playing the more effective two-way game he can play.

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03-10-2017, 10:22 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
Pretty safe to say that if Thorburn is signed again then Chevy and Maurice are both idiots, because Chevy wouldn't sign him if Maurice didn't want him.

On the flip side, not signing Thorburn does not prove that Chevy and Maurice are not idiots.
Smart GMs and coaches have signed worse players. Exhibit A - Sestito.

It's more about contract terms and usage.

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03-10-2017, 10:23 AM
  #82
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I still think we will be in a bit of a building season next year as well. Likely on the bubble. A lot will depend on our division and another injection of youth into the team though not as drastic as the last two seasons.

We really only have to address 3 major things this off season. The draft could be huge for us too depending on how things go.

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03-10-2017, 10:24 AM
  #83
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This off season, this team needs:

1. a true #1 goalie signed. Ideally for 2-4 years.

2. an upgraded D (one top 4 LHD signed, Trouba signed long term, and the bottom 6 replaced with two better players, one of who could be Enstrom).

3. a new head coach and all new assistants. Maurice had 4 years, and even with an upgraded team, he is routinely outcoached. An extension for him would be a disaster IMO.

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03-10-2017, 10:25 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
I agree. We need a partner that can cover for Buff but we also need Buff to get his head out of his ass. Next season I expect Chevy and Mo to attempt to woo Trouba by giving him the top pairing RHD minutes in an attempt to get him locked up long term. This will reduce Buff's minutes all over the ice so we may see a Buff that doesn't think he has to do so much and gets back to playing the more effective two-way game he can play.
Buff plays like we are down 2 goals with 10 min left in the game even if we are up by 1 goal half way through the 2nd period. His lack of hockey sense is infuriating

A team with Buff as their number 1 ice time leading defense man will not be able to make it far in the playoffs IMHO....He just takes to many risks on the ice

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03-10-2017, 10:28 AM
  #85
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I don't think that enhancing the goaltending is sufficient. The Jets have had real problems on defense. Enstrom has been regressing for a few years, and had a pretty disastrous season by his standards. That has really dragged the top 4 down, which has been compounded by an erratic season from Buff. I think the Jets really need to try to shore up the top-4 with a very good LHD who can pair with Buff and allow Enstrom to move down the line-up, if required.
I think enhancing goaltending makes the biggest difference, and if it doesn't happen nothing else is going to matter much.

I agree they need to upgrade the left side D, I've stated that many times. I think Toby will bounce back next season, this year has been particularly bad for him by his standards, as you say. I think he can still be an effective top 4 player for the Jets next season. Same for Buff, I think a variety of factors have affected his play this season and caused him to try and produce too much, some of those factors will be different next season, some already are.

I also think finding a coach that makes better use of his team's talent would help as well, I still don't love some of Mo's systems and how they isolate players and expose them in certain areas they will always struggle in.

All that said, it's moot without a goaltending upgrade, that was my point.

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03-10-2017, 11:42 AM
  #86
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The interesting thing with the Thrashers is when Waddel was the GM they essentially initiated a rebuild starting in 2008. Trading Hossa and Dupuis for futures. Then Kovalchuk for a 1st, 2nd, Oduya, Cormier and Burgfors. So again more futures. Then Lehtnonen for Vishnevskiy (futures). In that time Waddel drafted Kane and Bogo. Then Waddel was fired and that is when Dudley took over. Trading a slew of futures for a package that contained Buff and Sopel. Traded Vishnesvkiy and a 2nd for Ladd then acquired Wheeler, Stuart and Dvorak before the Thrashers moved.

So what we have is a GM that was initiating a rebuild who was subsequently fired about 2.5 seasons in to that rebuild and that is when Dudley took over and he essentially began to sell off futures and assets to acquire roster players. He made some pretty risky moves but did so to try and take a shortcut. Had he not moved all of those futures for older players the Jets likely inherit a team with a bit more prospects and picks and less guys like Buff, Wheeler and Ladd. This may have prompted them to go full rebuild rather than attempt to compete. Depending on how you look at it Dudley was either a good thing for us or a bad thing for us. He essentially traded away a first and two 2nd's from the 2010 draft. A draft where he already had 9 other picks and only managed to get Burmistrov out of. Now Dudley did acquire quite a few draft picks as well, mostly late picks. But he was definitely trying the old "Leafs Rebuild" and trading futures for established players which gutted the prospect pool which wasn't really stocked at all from some terrible drafting.

The Jets are leaps and bounds ahead of where the Thrashers were taking us. They just put this team in a **** position of having to draft and develop with no real way of attracting FA's short of massively overpaying and no real way of acquiring anymore good core players short of selling off more prospects and picks. Which is no way to build a team IMO. It never works. The Leafs are living proof of that failed scheme over and over again.
Great post Dax this should be stickied when anyone asks about Thrasher history. They were in a full rebuild until Dudley took over and leafed things by "going for it". Then TNSE took over and changed to a 3rd direction of D&D while kind of sort of trying to make the playoffs essentially hanging Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Toby, and Buff out to dry?

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Thats one way to look at it. The other way again is that you had a guy who was never going to sign back here and dithered over 250k.

Funny how earlier in the year no one would post this and Frolik was playing just fine then but his team wasn't

Anyways

As much as people will hate this I will say I think for the most part what they decided to do this year was hand the reigns over to the younger guys and for the most part it paid off and it will pay off as we go forward.

This is a young team and wins when its young players are playing well. Some tweaks need to be made but nothing major.

- Get a solid vet backup for Helly
- Figure out what you are going to do with Myers
- Get a solid LH D in Free agency to play with Buff.

As much as people here would hate this I can see them resigning Thorburn. But it should mean he sits in the PB 90 percent of the time and is willing to go down to the Moose every so often.

I don't think there is a need to fire PoMo yet. But I probably have him on a short leash next year.


Call me crazy but I like the looks of the team for the most part. They can put the puck into the net, they need to put together more solid 200 foot games,they need longer stretches of consistent goaltending and they need the refs to give them some more respect.
So Joe I am fine with your post "BUT" I have a few thoughts to add. I find it depressing to watch our young piers Calgary, Edmonton, and (possibly) Toronto marching towards the playoffs while we twist in the wind. I hate it when Maurice and TNSE talk publically about taking a step back, or when they throw young players under the bus saying things like they have to have the freedom to make mistakes and learn, or when he says it takes a while to get to our game, not enough practice time, or when he whines about our compressed schedule, or talks about how Babs games the media better ....Sometimes I just want Maurice to shut the **** up and do his job. His job is to win games with what he has full stop!!

Same thing with Chevy......Chia has a really young team in Edmonton and he has made some stupid moves but he has also got aggressive to address weaknesses on defense and in the net.....it has been expensive but he.. you know.....FIXED PROBLEMS while being far from perfect.

Calgary, Edmonton, and Toronto were all just as young and in just as big of a mess if not more than the Jets but they have found a way through it. YES I GET OUR INJURIES hAVE HURT but TNSE lose street cred when they do nothing to address our net....you can't suck and blow at the same time so complaining about injuries while they hang our team out to dry by failing to fix goaltending for 6 years rings hollow.

Sorry but a strong "NO" to Thor because we need to take the booze out of the house to not tempt the alcoholic. Maurice needs to not have him as an option or he will **** it up.

Now stepping back from the ledge for a minute I love our young core of Laine, Schiefele, Ehlers, Trouba, Morrissey (hopefully Connor and Helle) and most likely this group will be strong enough to force their way into the playoffs here soon. MY FULL EXPECTATION is that TNSE will make some adjustments and be a playoff team starting next year....However, anything short of that I would clean house if I was the owner.

The longstanding issues have been well documented and we have the assets now to trade and shore up our weaknesses but it will take action. Tomorrow has arrived and the time for excuses has past and the time for results starts when this season ends.

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This is a key point. Imagine this franchise with a core that included:

2008 Pietrangelo
2009 OEL
2010 Tarasenko

Whatever else Chevy and the Jets have done, they've nailed their first round picks.
Whileee I was going to post a similar list of "imagine if" we would not have drafted Bogo-Kane-Burmi but I had Grandlund in instead of Tank (since everyone passed on tank and Marcus was the pick after Alex)



Win next year and I will give a pass on this season......dither next year and miss the playoffs and I will move from a frustrated moderate to the line up where we pick up pitchforks, light our torches, and storm the castle. Next year if this thing is still off the rails it is 100% on Chipman to make changes so he might want to remember that when he extends Chevy and PMo this summer.

Go Jets Go

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03-10-2017, 11:43 AM
  #87
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Not to speak for anyone else, but it seems like the underlying message from most of us is that we have higher expectations for next season. That there is enough talent on the team (with a few changes) to actually make a splash next season.

I for one will be expecting much more success next year and will be very upset if the small, logical adjustments aren't made to allow us that success.
Playoffs or clean house for me.

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03-10-2017, 11:57 AM
  #88
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Great post Dax this should be stickied when anyone asks about Thrasher history. They were in a full rebuild until Dudley took over and leafed things by "going for it". Then TNSE took over and changed to a 3rd direction of D&D while kind of sort of trying to make the playoffs essentially hanging Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Toby, and Buff out to dry?
I remember that since around the 2nd season the Draft & Develop Detroit model was being thrown out by virtually everyone of competing but still building and developing through the draft rather than tanking. I mean that was our motto to build through the draft. What I think is TSNE wanted to maintain the identity that Dudley had built with this team of being that blue-collar no quit team and tried to compete will also building through the draft. Then they made the playoffs and realized that these guys didn't have what it takes so that is when the "youth movement" occurred and we started to implement the develop side of things after 4 years of drafting. We are essentially in the process of replacing the Atlanta core with the Jets core and I don't think we will be fully ready to compete until that is completely finished. But TSNE couldn't simply say well we are building through the draft and replacing you guys but we plan on using you to shelter our new core. Otherwise Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Buff and Toby would have bolted or asked to be traded to contenders rather than wasting their primes being mentors. I fully suspect that TSNE used the Atlanta core to mentor their own core and intend on selling them off one by one over the coming years. It's a harsh reality but maybe our kids will be better off for it. I mean could you imagine Scheifele being the best center on this team the moment he got here? Or Trouba having to play in the top 4 with no one else to shelter him in his rookie season. We may have wasted the primes of the Atlanta core but it was to the benefit of our Jets core IMO.

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03-10-2017, 12:01 PM
  #89
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Playoffs or clean house for me.
It would be interesting to see a large poll of people done to ask the question... what is acceptable for this team next season?

I think the majority what a playoff appearance and that if it's not achievable, then heads need to start rolling.

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03-10-2017, 12:01 PM
  #90
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Great post Dax this should be stickied when anyone asks about Thrasher history. They were in a full rebuild until Dudley took over and leafed things by "going for it". Then TNSE took over and changed to a 3rd direction of D&D while kind of sort of trying to make the playoffs essentially hanging Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Toby, and Buff out to dry?



So Joe I am fine with your post "BUT" I have a few thoughts to add. I find it depressing to watch our young piers Calgary, Edmonton, and (possibly) Toronto marching towards the playoffs while we twist in the wind. I hate it when Maurice and TNSE talk publically about taking a step back, or when they throw young players under the bus saying things like they have to have the freedom to make mistakes and learn, or when he says it takes a while to get to our game, not enough practice time, or when he whines about our compressed schedule, or talks about how Babs games the media better ....Sometimes I just want Maurice to shut the **** up and do his job. His job is to win games with what he has full stop!!

Same thing with Chevy......Chia has a really young team in Edmonton and he has made some stupid moves but he has also got aggressive to address weaknesses on defense and in the net.....it has been expensive but he.. you know.....FIXED PROBLEMS while being far from perfect.

Calgary, Edmonton, and Toronto were all just as young and in just as big of a mess if not more than the Jets but they have found a way through it. YES I GET OUR INJURIES hAVE HURT but TNSE lose street cred when they do nothing to address our net....you can't suck and blow at the same time so complaining about injuries while they hang our team out to dry by failing to fix goaltending for 6 years rings hollow.

Sorry but a strong "NO" to Thor because we need to take the booze out of the house to not tempt the alcoholic. Maurice needs to not have him as an option or he will **** it up.

Now stepping back from the ledge for a minute I love our young core of Laine, Schiefele, Ehlers, Trouba, Morrissey (hopefully Connor and Helle) and most likely this group will be strong enough to force their way into the playoffs here soon. MY FULL EXPECTATION is that TNSE will make some adjustments and be a playoff team starting next year....However, anything short of that I would clean house if I was the owner.

The longstanding issues have been well documented and we have the assets now to trade and shore up our weaknesses but it will take action. Tomorrow has arrived and the time for excuses has past and the time for results starts when this season ends.



Whileee I was going to post a similar list of "imagine if" we would not have drafted Bogo-Kane-Burmi but I had Grandlund in instead of Tank (since everyone passed on tank and Marcus was the pick after Alex)



Win next year and I will give a pass on this season......dither next year and miss the playoffs and I will move from a frustrated moderate to the line up where we pick up pitchforks, light our torches, and storm the castle. Next year if this thing is still off the rails it is 100% on Chipman to make changes so he might want to remember that when he extends Chevy and PMo this summer.

Go Jets Go
I get looking at tye stridesToronto and Edmonton have made and being pissed it hasn't happened here. I don't include Calgary because they aren't that young of a team and their defense and goaltending position are stabilized by grizzled vets.

On the flip side there are a number of rebuilds flailing aimlessly like the Avs (Have drafted much higher than the Jets on average) and the Coyotes. The Canes who have had similar draft positions to the Jets are at a similar place in the standings despite bing much healthier. Toronto has been incredibly healthy this year and Edmonton's impact players have been healthy all year. Calgary has also been extremely healthy.

But I am also frustrated with a number of things, most notably Moe's inability to bring our special teams to league average. Outside of goaltending that is the biggest difference between us and Toronto and Columbus.

Anyhow Chevy needs to fill holes and get this team into the playoffs next season or he needs to be replaced.

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03-10-2017, 12:09 PM
  #91
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It would be interesting to see a large poll of people done to ask the question... what is acceptable for this team next season?

I think the majority what a playoff appearance and that if it's not achievable, then heads need to start rolling.
i don't frankly think missing playoffs is really acceptable THIS year, but next year is definitely a complete failure if they don't make it. I'd possibly even think anything but a strong showing in the 1st round (lose in 7) would be a large failure, since supposedly we're taking this long to be a not 'one and done' team...

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03-10-2017, 12:12 PM
  #92
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I get looking at tye stridesToronto and Edmonton have made and being pissed it hasn't happened here. I don't include Calgary because they aren't that young of a team and their defense and goaltending position are stabilized by grizzled vets.

On the flip side there are a number of rebuilds flailing aimlessly like the Avs (Have drafted much higher than the Jets on average) and the Coyotes. The Canes who have had similar draft positions to the Jets are at a similar place in the standings despite bing much healthier. Toronto has been incredibly healthy this year and Edmonton's impact players have been healthy all year. Calgary has also been extremely healthy.

But I am also frustrated with a number of things, most notably Moe's inability to bring our special teams to league average. Outside of goaltending that is the biggest difference between us and Toronto and Columbus.

Anyhow Chevy needs to fill holes and get this team into the playoffs next season or he needs to be replaced.
These are fair comments and I would add Buffalo to the list of teams spinning their wheels. I am not a fan of being in the have not group since too much of our pain is self inflicted. I have often compared us to Carolina as far as never bottoming out and never making the playoffs we just got lucky and won a lottery.

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03-10-2017, 01:12 PM
  #93
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I get looking at tye stridesToronto and Edmonton have made and being pissed it hasn't happened here. I don't include Calgary because they aren't that young of a team and their defense and goaltending position are stabilized by grizzled vets.
So I forgot to comment on this but I am not 100% sure on this Surxion?

top 5 in scoring:

Gaudreau 23
Backlund 27 (not young but not old)
Monahan 21
Tkachuk 19
Hamilton 23

Then Bennett is 20 and Brodie is 26 round out the core


That is a great young core and most of them (outside of Bennett) are carrying Calgary?

Gio kind of plays the grizzled vet role like Buff and Toby (to a lesser degree) do on Winnipeg. I see the Flames and the Jets apples to apples age wise.

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03-10-2017, 01:24 PM
  #94
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So I forgot to comment on this but I am not 100% sure on this Surxion?

top 5 in scoring:

Gaudreau 23
Backlund 27 (not young but not old)
Monahan 21
Tkachuk 19
Hamilton 23

Then Bennett is 20 and Brodie is 26 round out the core


That is a great young core and most of them (outside of Bennett) are carrying Calgary?

Gio kind of plays the grizzled vet role like Buff and Toby (to a lesser degree) do on Winnipeg. I see the Flames and the Jets apples to apples age wise.
Well look at it this way:

The JETS top pairing is younger than anyone on Calgary's defense.

Helle is far younger than both goalies.

I don't dispute the forward core isn't young and dynamic but on the backend and in net the Flames are far more experienced and I think that's where the major difference lies. Especially considering their vets Bodie and Gio haven't ### the bed like ours have this year.

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03-10-2017, 01:25 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
So I forgot to comment on this but I am not 100% sure on this Surxion?

top 5 in scoring:

Gaudreau 23
Backlund 27 (not young but not old)
Monahan 21
Tkachuk 19
Hamilton 23

Then Bennett is 20 and Brodie is 26 round out the core


That is a great young core and most of them (outside of Bennett) are carrying Calgary?

Gio kind of plays the grizzled vet role like Buff and Toby (to a lesser degree) do on Winnipeg. I see the Flames and the Jets apples to apples age wise.
Beyond this is mostly established vets.

Beyond the Jets top group there are young players like Armia, Dano, Copp, Petan, Tanev, Connor that have all played a fair bit this season.

Jets are second in the NHL in terms of significant man games lost to injury (not counting 15 games lost for Trouba).

Flames have been the 3rd healthiest team in the NHL, behind only the Caps and Leafs. The Flames have only had two "significant" injuries the entire season - 10 games for Gaudreau and 8 games for Brouwer.

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03-10-2017, 01:33 PM
  #96
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I get looking at tye stridesToronto and Edmonton have made and being pissed it hasn't happened here. I don't include Calgary because they aren't that young of a team and their defense and goaltending position are stabilized by grizzled vets.

On the flip side there are a number of rebuilds flailing aimlessly like the Avs (Have drafted much higher than the Jets on average) and the Coyotes. The Canes who have had similar draft positions to the Jets are at a similar place in the standings despite bing much healthier. Toronto has been incredibly healthy this year and Edmonton's impact players have been healthy all year. Calgary has also been extremely healthy.

But I am also frustrated with a number of things, most notably Moe's inability to bring our special teams to league average. Outside of goaltending that is the biggest difference between us and Toronto and Columbus.

Anyhow Chevy needs to fill holes and get this team into the playoffs next season or he needs to be replaced.
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These are fair comments and I would add Buffalo to the list of teams spinning their wheels. I am not a fan of being in the have not group since too much of our pain is self inflicted. I have often compared us to Carolina as far as never bottoming out and never making the playoffs we just got lucky and won a lottery.
Yeah it definitely gets interesting when you look at rebuilds across the league.

Edmontons forced rebuild started in 2006 with the trade request of Pronger who was sold for futures. In a few short years time MAB, Smyth, Lupul, Stoll, Torres and Garon were all sold off for futures. But for at least a period between 2007-2009 the Oilers still tried to compete by acquiring players for prospects and picks. It was an absolute failure and by 2010 the Oilers entered an official rebuild. So the Oilers have essentially been rebuilding since the 2007 season but because of trying to take shortcuts their rebuild really didn't start until 2010.
So the Oilers have been rebuilding for 11 years but really only about 7 officially with this looking to be the first time in those 11 years they will make the playoffs

Calgary's rebuild has been on the fly since at least 2010 for about 3 years they tried to compete with quick fixes but officially started in 2013 with the selling off of Iginla, Bouwmeester, Comeau, Tanguay and Stempniak for futures. Calgary through some luck in the draft and being a respected free agent market was able to turn their franchise around quicker than most.
The Flames lucked out in 2015 year making the playoffs but have been building towards contending since at least the 2010 season.
So the Flames have been rebuilding for 7 years, but only about 4 officially with 1 playoff appearance where they were punching above their weight.

Colorado's forced rebuild unofficially started in 2009 when Smyth was traded to the Kings and Sakic retired. Shortly thereafter Forsberg attempted a comeback but retired and Foote retired as well. Over this time the Avs traded a bunch of picks and players for quick fixes but continued to draft high to mid in the draft.
The Avs have been rebuilding for 8 years and have made the playoffs 2 times in that time frame with 1 of them punching above their weight like the Flames. It seems that now they are attempting to start over from scratch which will further delay their build time to another 5+ years likely.

Buffalo's rebuild started in 2007 when Drury and Briere left in free agency. Over the next few years the Sabres sold off Biron, Campbell, Kotalik, Paille and MacArthur. but by 2009 they were looking to make quick fixes to compete again. Though they did make the playoffs twice it was a short lived fix and they were back to rebuilding by 2011. Selling off Kassian, Roy, Brennan, Leopold, Regehr, Pominville, Sekera, Tallinder, Vanek, Miller, Ott, Halak, Moulson, Enroth, Stuart, Neuvirth, Flynn and O'Reilly. Over that time frame. They have continued to draft high over that time frame as well. Even so much as to acquire Kane, Bogo, Kulikov and Lehner for some of their futures to quick fix.
So Buffalo has been rebuilding for 10 years. Attempted to quick fix and made the playoffs twice but were right back at it for another 8 years and have been spinning tires ever since.

Toronto, contrary to what their fans say, have attempted to rebuild since 2006. Sundin delayed this by refusing to be traded at the 2008 deadline by enforcing his NTC because he and I quote "didn't want to win the cup as a rental." This was a massive blow to asset management. Sundin instead opted to go to free agency where he was paid handsomely. This should have marked the beginning of the Leafs rebuild but instead they used assets to trade up in the draft to grab Schenn. Used more assets to acquire Moore, and ultimately traded a very high pick to Boston to acquire Kessel and more futures to add Phaneuf. This was Toronto's quick fix rebuilding era. Shanahan was hired in 2014 and began by stating that he would not sell off vets to facilitate a rebuild but ultimately by 2015 the team decided to head in that direction fully and sold off Franson, Sanotrelli, Winnik, Abbot, Holzer, Jokinen, McKegg, Marincin, Kessel, Grabner, Phanuef, Fratin, Matthias, Polak, Reimer, Morin, Winnik again, Bernier, Holland and Enroth for futures.
So realistically the Leafs rebuild started in 2006 and has been ongoing for 11 years but because of quick fixes and inept management was delayed until 2014 where they made the playoffs 1 time in that entire time frame.

Panthers have been rebuilding since 2010 when Tallon took over. The Hawks rebuild lasted for 10 seasons. The Sens rebuild on the fly has been ongoing since the selling off of Vermette and Heatley in 2009. The Jacket build has been on going since they entered the league in 2001 and is just starting to look like it's completing. The Pens rebuild lasted only 4 seasons but was expedited with timing and luck. Managing to snag two franchise centers in back to back drafts. The Islanders rebuild has been ongoing since at least 2009 and they are still a bubble team. Carolina has basically been rebuilding since 2006. The Devils have bee rebuilding since 2012. The Stars rebuild on the fly has been on going since 2009. The Kings rebuild took about 7 years. The Canucks should have started a rebuild back in 2013. And the Coyotes have basically been in a full on rebuild since 2011.

Ours started in 2008 and was set back because of Dudley so realistically we probably started building in 2012, with a single playoff appearance in 2015 and a tank season in 2016.

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03-10-2017, 01:48 PM
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Beyond this is mostly established vets.

Beyond the Jets top group there are young players like Armia, Dano, Copp, Petan, Tanev, Connor that have all played a fair bit this season.

Jets are second in the NHL in terms of significant man games lost to injury (not counting 15 games lost for Trouba).

Flames have been the 3rd healthiest team in the NHL, behind only the Caps and Leafs. The Flames have only had two "significant" injuries the entire season - 10 games for Gaudreau and 8 games for Brouwer.
Not debating the impact of man games lost that is legit but I was talking about Calgary being a young team on the rise and I was focusing on young core that will carry the team and the Flames top producers are all pretty young.

Young core vs young core not far apart......young support pieces vs young support pieces we would need someone from Calgary to weigh in.....old talented vets vs old talented vets looks like a push to me.

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03-10-2017, 01:58 PM
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Great post Dax this should be stickied when anyone asks about Thrasher history. They were in a full rebuild until Dudley took over and leafed things by "going for it". Then TNSE took over and changed to a 3rd direction of D&D while kind of sort of trying to make the playoffs essentially hanging Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Toby, and Buff out to dry?



So Joe I am fine with your post "BUT" I have a few thoughts to add. I find it depressing to watch our young piers Calgary, Edmonton, and (possibly) Toronto marching towards the playoffs while we twist in the wind. I hate it when Maurice and TNSE talk publically about taking a step back, or when they throw young players under the bus saying things like they have to have the freedom to make mistakes and learn, or when he says it takes a while to get to our game, not enough practice time, or when he whines about our compressed schedule, or talks about how Babs games the media better ....Sometimes I just want Maurice to shut the **** up and do his job. His job is to win games with what he has full stop!!

Same thing with Chevy......Chia has a really young team in Edmonton and he has made some stupid moves but he has also got aggressive to address weaknesses on defense and in the net.....it has been expensive but he.. you know.....FIXED PROBLEMS while being far from perfect.

Calgary, Edmonton, and Toronto were all just as young and in just as big of a mess if not more than the Jets but they have found a way through it. YES I GET OUR INJURIES hAVE HURT but TNSE lose street cred when they do nothing to address our net....you can't suck and blow at the same time so complaining about injuries while they hang our team out to dry by failing to fix goaltending for 6 years rings hollow.

Sorry but a strong "NO" to Thor because we need to take the booze out of the house to not tempt the alcoholic. Maurice needs to not have him as an option or he will **** it up.

Now stepping back from the ledge for a minute I love our young core of Laine, Schiefele, Ehlers, Trouba, Morrissey (hopefully Connor and Helle) and most likely this group will be strong enough to force their way into the playoffs here soon. MY FULL EXPECTATION is that TNSE will make some adjustments and be a playoff team starting next year....However, anything short of that I would clean house if I was the owner.

The longstanding issues have been well documented and we have the assets now to trade and shore up our weaknesses but it will take action. Tomorrow has arrived and the time for excuses has past and the time for results starts when this season ends.



Whileee I was going to post a similar list of "imagine if" we would not have drafted Bogo-Kane-Burmi but I had Grandlund in instead of Tank (since everyone passed on tank and Marcus was the pick after Alex)



Win next year and I will give a pass on this season......dither next year and miss the playoffs and I will move from a frustrated moderate to the line up where we pick up pitchforks, light our torches, and storm the castle. Next year if this thing is still off the rails it is 100% on Chipman to make changes so he might want to remember that when he extends Chevy and PMo this summer.

Go Jets Go

The Oilers last made the playoffs in 2006. 11 years later they are back in the dance. That is after they decided to do a scorched earth policy. They really didn't do anything until they had McDavid fall in their laps and trade Hall away for some defensive help.

Toronto hasn't made the playoffs yet.

To me we are in a similar boat to Calgary one of those mix of teams that is on that line of making or missing the playoffs every year. I think we lucked out at the draft last year and have a super star forward and I think we developed Schief into one. What we haven't done is try to fix our goaltending like Calgary has. Its paying dividends for them now.

The other thing about Calgary is earlier in the year their fans wanted their coach fired. Now, not so much. My point is when PoMo led us into the playoffs he could do no wrong, now not so much.

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03-10-2017, 02:11 PM
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Not debating the impact of man games lost that is legit but I was talking about Calgary being a young team on the rise and I was focusing on young core that will carry the team and the Flames top producers are all pretty young.

Young core vs young core not far apart......young support pieces vs young support pieces we would need someone from Calgary to weigh in.....old talented vets vs old talented vets looks like a push to me.
I think that the Jets' anticipated "rise" has been blunted by an epic number of injuries coinciding with the busiest part of their schedule, mediocre goaltending and uneven performance by veteran D. Sure, they've had some stinkers with a relatively healthy line-up but so does every team. But no team can really expect to compete in the NHL these days if they have to consistently ice a line-up with several replacement players instead of key players.

I think the Jets are closer to a good team than we might think, and the fixes aren't that drastic in terms of personnel or coaching.

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03-10-2017, 02:21 PM
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The Oilers last made the playoffs in 2006. 11 years later they are back in the dance. That is after they decided to do a scorched earth policy. They really didn't do anything until they had McDavid fall in their laps and trade Hall away for some defensive help.

Toronto hasn't made the playoffs yet.

To me we are in a similar boat to Calgary one of those mix of teams that is on that line of making or missing the playoffs every year. I think we lucked out at the draft last year and have a super star forward and I think we developed Schief into one. What we haven't done is try to fix our goaltending like Calgary has. Its paying dividends for them now.

The other thing about Calgary is earlier in the year their fans wanted their coach fired. Now, not so much. My point is when PoMo led us into the playoffs he could do no wrong, now not so much.
I look at Edmonton and their lost era under Kevin Lowe. That was just a disaster and if not for McDavid and Katz growing a nut sack and hiring Nicholson they would still be a mess. Those two events were the game changers.

In Toronto things really began with Shanny and I almost wonder if they didn't get a bit lucky too fast. They are still missing that key #1 D man every org needs.

I am not sold Gully as the answer in Calgary as far as coaching goes. I do like how they at least took a shot with fixing the goaltending this past off season.

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