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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Quebec Nordiques: expansion or relocation

View Poll Results: Will Quebec City get a team via expansion or relocation?
Expansion 54 10.51%
Relocation 345 67.12%
QC will not get an NHL team 115 22.37%
Voters: 514. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-12-2017, 09:41 AM
  #51
BLONG7
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Could it be the Canes who eventually move to Quebec?

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:00 AM
  #52
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relocation is my bet

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:42 AM
  #53
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The Coyotes are going to have to move eventually if this bill doesn't pass. So they are either going to play in Quebec or get shoved into Seattle, which doesn't have a tenable arena. Both markets need teams eventually, it's just a matter of which one comes first. My money is on Quebec. Even with 14-17 alignment, the NHL could expand to Seattle, Houston, and Portland over the next few years to even it out at a cool 34 teams.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:52 AM
  #54
powerstuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I love the bogus narrative that he had no choice in Winnipeg instead of the real truth that he was working with Winnipeg for years and was helpful in getting a team moved there. He has also been working with Quebec also.
Oh really, Gary Bettman working with potential destinations ?

All Gary is doing is making a sales pitch in the words of ''Built it and we will come''.

I guess you will agree that Gary is working very hard to keep Coyotes in AZ, as long as AZ taxpayers pay 200% of it (Built the arena, pay for it, buy tickets, pay for arena managements and what not).

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Old
03-12-2017, 11:05 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I love the bogus narrative that he had no choice in Winnipeg instead of the real truth that he was working with Winnipeg for years and was helpful in getting a team moved there. He has also been working with Quebec also.
Since you obviously don't live here you are not aware of everything that went on in Winnipeg re the NHL over the last 30 years, of which a lot of people in this city know about which never made the press....

Helpful , yeah, picking up the phone and telling TNSE, I'm done with Atlanta you can have them, is really being helpful. All Bettman ever did is tell TNSE... look if a team ever folds we will think of you. oh, and thanks for all your help in regards to the CoG council.

Nobody in Winnipeg has any misconceptions about the how and why we got a team back.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 03-12-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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Old
03-12-2017, 11:28 AM
  #56
The Silver Arrow
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I voted the third option, but only because I think the NHL wants to really make sure they get the Western Conference balanced relatively nicely before they add another Eastern team.

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Old
03-12-2017, 12:54 PM
  #57
Guardian17
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Relocation makes the most sense.

Like Winnipeg, Quebec City has a building and will be a soft landing spot.

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03-12-2017, 01:13 PM
  #58
Melrose Munch
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Expansion.

No baggage.

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:46 PM
  #59
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Relocation and as a bruins fan loving in Boston I can't wait. I love QC and would like to go to a game there.

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:58 PM
  #60
Slashers98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Expansion.

No baggage.
Ridiculous argument. We don't care about the baggage of a team since it will be much better than an expansion team and will be loaded with good prospects.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:40 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
2) no dead weight from another franchise with be personnel.
Well, I can never hear enough good things about the pipelines for the Hurricanes and Coyotes. They both seem to have such bright futures, unless they moved to Quebec, in which case they'd become dead weight, I suppose.

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03-12-2017, 03:22 PM
  #62
Pelle Lindbergh
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Relocation for sure, even if they play in the central division for a couple of years.
+ : an instant rivality with winnipeg like in he old dayz of WHA
an instant rivality with Colorado
Cool to have great hockey cities like chicago and minnesota
Maybe a dream a stanley cup final between the habs and the nordiques !

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03-12-2017, 03:33 PM
  #63
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
Ridiculous argument. We don't care about the baggage of a team since it will be much better than an expansion team and will be loaded with good prospects.
Which of these teams are better then the maple leafs? Not Phoenix. Winnipeg has made the playoffs once since moving. How is that any better than an expansion franchise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
Well, I can never hear enough good things about the pipelines for the Hurricanes and Coyotes. They both seem to have such bright futures, unless they moved to Quebec, in which case they'd become dead weight, I suppose.
I mean guys like Waddell.

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Old
03-12-2017, 04:58 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Expansion.

No baggage.
The Coyotes baggage is one of the best prospect pools in the league. QC would be drooling at the chance to acquire the team in terms of 'baggage'.

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Old
03-12-2017, 05:03 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Since you obviously don't live here you are not aware of everything that went on in Winnipeg re the NHL over the last 30 years, of which a lot of people in this city know about which never made the press....

Helpful , yeah, picking up the phone and telling TNSE, I'm done with Atlanta you can have them, is really being helpful. All Bettman ever did is tell TNSE... look if a team ever folds we will think of you. oh, and thanks for all your help in regards to the CoG council.

Nobody in Winnipeg has any misconceptions about the how and why we got a team back.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...122904299.html
Quote:
"He, in just a very constructive, professional, quiet way, kept doing the things that were necessary to ultimately get to this point. He understood that this wasn’t a process that he could control the timing of and that this wasn’t a process that could be pushed faster than it could go on its own.
"He exhibited extraordinary patience."
And later, on Chipman’s methodology, Bettman said: "The one thing that I think Mark Chipman demonstrated in this process is quiet, behind-the-scenes patience tends to work better than the alternative."
Certainly looks as if the league had been working with Winnipeg for years. But yeah Bettman hates Canada let's continue that myth. Nice how everyone is changing history now to push some Bravo Sierra and continue to hate Bettman.
Quebec is also working with the league in this manner and will have a team in >5 years as soon as it gets it's financing together.


Last edited by Gnashville: 03-12-2017 at 05:09 PM.
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Old
03-12-2017, 05:39 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
The Coyotes baggage is one of the best prospect pools in the league. QC would be drooling at the chance to acquire the team in terms of 'baggage'.
I think you guys need to work it our to keep hockey in Phoenix first.

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Old
03-12-2017, 06:06 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gnashville
Certainly looks as if the league had been working with Winnipeg for years. But yeah Bettman hates Canada let's continue that myth. Nice how everyone is changing history now to push some Bravo Sierra and continue to hate Bettman.
Quebec is also working with the league in this manner and will have a team in >5 years as soon as it gets it's financing together.
I agree with you Gnashville. However, the NHL could help Quebec regarding its financing if the NHL needs to relocate in an emergency situation.


Last edited by Fugu: 03-12-2017 at 09:23 PM.
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Old
03-12-2017, 06:33 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...122904299.html


Certainly looks as if the league had been working with Winnipeg for years. But yeah Bettman hates Canada let's continue that myth. Nice how everyone is changing history now to push some Bravo Sierra and continue to hate Bettman.
Quebec is also working with the league in this manner and will have a team in >5 years as soon as it gets it's financing together.
Believe what you will, but the sunny-skies stories that followed the Jets return to YWG is not at all what actually happened when they left town and in the years that followed.

You might have noticed the statement early in the story that Bettman's 2011 trip to Winnipeg was his first time there in the past 15 years.

I come from Winnipeg, and I don't know anyone who had the impression that Gary Bettman was ever busting his ass to get an NHL franchise back there until the NHL had an urgent need to find a place for either the Thrashers or the Coyotes, or both.

Fortunately for the NHL, they were able to dupe Glendale, Arizona into thinking that NHL hockey has such a bright future in that good City that the municipal taxpayers should underwrite the operation to the extent of $25-million per year: just an "insurance policy" (to quote Bill Daly) mind you, that probably never be drawn on because things were in such good shape.

That is the same kind of credibility with which the NHL left Winnipeg, Manitoba.

Please don't tell us from where ever you are what a good friend Bettman has been throughout the years to Winnipeg and Quebec.

He's a friend in need: nothing else.

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Old
03-12-2017, 06:41 PM
  #69
Slashers98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
The Coyotes baggage is one of the best prospect pools in the league. QC would be drooling at the chance to acquire the team in terms of 'baggage'.
Exactly, and both Duclair and Domingue played their junior hockey here for the Remparts so people would identify to them.

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Old
03-12-2017, 08:59 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I love the bogus narrative that he had no choice in Winnipeg instead of the real truth that he was working with Winnipeg for years and was helpful in getting a team moved there. He has also been working with Quebec also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
He did have a choice. As I recall around that time there was a lot of rumors that Kansas City wanted a team and they had an arena built.
He didn't have a choice. There was no other city that had an arena AND an ownership group interested in paying the price $170 million other than Winnipeg and True North.

Working together/listening to Winnipeg Ownership group sure

Other options to move Atlanta..nope.

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03-13-2017, 03:25 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Pelle Lindbergh View Post
Relocation for sure, even if they play in the central division for a couple of years.
+ : an instant rivality with winnipeg like in he old dayz of WHA
an instant rivality with Colorado
Cool to have great hockey cities like chicago and minnesota
Maybe a dream a stanley cup final between the habs and the nordiques !
i get that you are excited and everything but there is a lot of fanboyism and questionable foresight in this post

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03-13-2017, 09:14 AM
  #72
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/re...449/story.html

“After extensive effort, nobody has come forward,” Bruce Levenson and Michael Gearon of Atlanta Spirit said in a letter posted Tuesday on the Thrashers website. “As a result, we had no choice but to explore the investment option presented to us by the NHL in the form of True North Sports and Entertainment. "

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke..._winnipeg.html

“We don’t like to move franchises, but sometimes . . . we simply have no choice" said Bettman.

***

Again. Quebec, just be patient, the day will come again when the NHL has no choice but to take you back in the fold.

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Old
03-13-2017, 11:22 AM
  #73
tony d
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Relocation. Either way Quebec City should have another team by the end of the decade.

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03-13-2017, 11:41 AM
  #74
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Won't happen. The ship has sailed, farewell my lovely, no Nordiques in our future.

- Quebecor is losing a lot of money on their NHL deal right now. Paid a premium for NHL rights. Ratings, outside of Saturday night when the Habs play, aren't there. The Province of Quebec is a ****** market for hockey. People will watch local teams, but they don't give a **** about the NHL in general. They needed the Nordiques for their TV deal to work, price for an expansion franchise was too high, they likely bailed.

- They couldn't afford the 500M upfront. They are a publicly-traded company, they have share-holders to answer to. Putting that kind of debt on when the ROI is very suspect won't sit well with investors. It is a huge risk and the ROI is linked to other parts of the business, not to the team itself. The team will likely lose money or break even.

- Corporate support is iffy. Small companies won't be able to afford suites and those that could likely won't as there is next to no benefits for them because their clients are outside the market. They might at first because there will be quite the buzz, but long-term, very difficult.

- Lots of Nordiques fans in the city/its surrounding. Not that many people that can afford season tickets. Will work at first because of the buzz, but down the line, could be a concern.

- The NHL wants to expand its foot-print in the USA. In their eyes, there is no gain in going to Quebec City. People there are already customers in the league's eyes.

- The Hurricanes aren't moving. They have a great lease and a landlord that wants to keep them. The league will do everything it can to stay there. Karmanos wants to sell, but not at all cost.

- The Coyotes will move to downtown Phoenix, but they are not leaving the region.

For all these reasons, I don't think a team in Quebec City will happen,

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Old
03-13-2017, 11:59 AM
  #75
Acesolid
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
Won't happen. The ship has sailed, farewell my lovely, no Nordiques in our future.

- Quebecor is losing a lot of money on their NHL deal right now. Paid a premium for NHL rights. Ratings, outside of Saturday night when the Habs play, aren't there. The Province of Quebec is a ****** market for hockey. People will watch local teams, but they don't give a **** about the NHL in general. They needed the Nordiques for their TV deal to work, price for an expansion franchise was too high, they likely bailed.

- They couldn't afford the 500M upfront. They are a publicly-traded company, they have share-holders to answer to. Putting that kind of debt on when the ROI is very suspect won't sit well with investors. It is a huge risk and the ROI is linked to other parts of the business, not to the team itself. The team will likely lose money or break even.

- Corporate support is iffy. Small companies won't be able to afford suites and those that could likely won't as there is next to no benefits for them because their clients are outside the market. They might at first because there will be quite the buzz, but long-term, very difficult.

- Lots of Nordiques fans in the city/its surrounding. Not that many people that can afford season tickets. Will work at first because of the buzz, but down the line, could be a concern.

- The NHL wants to expand its foot-print in the USA. In their eyes, there is no gain in going to Quebec City. People there are already customers in the league's eyes.

- The Hurricanes aren't moving. They have a great lease and a landlord that wants to keep them. The league will do everything it can to stay there. Karmanos wants to sell, but not at all cost.

- The Coyotes will move to downtown Phoenix, but they are not leaving the region.

For all these reasons, I don't think a team in Quebec City will happen,

Come on, stop with the melodrama.

A few points:

1. Québecor is willing to pay, there is no evidence of the contrary.

2. People in Québec will do what they've always done for season tickets: Buy them as a group and then split the tickets.

3. Whatever the NHL thinks, at some point they might not have a choice.

4. Karmanos isn't immortal. He's a sickly extremely old man, unable to even keep occupying his seat on the board of governors. Sure, he might be patient.... for now. But that's not in any way, shape or form a tenable position. His heirs aren't gonna be willing to waste 25 million dollars a year on financing the losses of the Hurricanes.

5. Who will pay the 25 million dollars in yearly losses of the Coyotes if they go downtown? Arizona wont. The Suns wont. Barroway isn't made of money. The NHL has already given obscene amounts of money in Interest-free loans to the Coyotes... This is also not a tenable situation long term.

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