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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Quebec Nordiques: expansion or relocation

View Poll Results: Will Quebec City get a team via expansion or relocation?
Expansion 24 8.39%
Relocation 209 73.08%
QC will not get an NHL team 53 18.53%
Voters: 286. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-13-2017, 12:39 PM
  #76
Burke the Legend
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Another Western location is ahead of Quebec for expansion. Eastern conference relocation is possible but I don't see anyone moving soon.

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Old
03-13-2017, 01:05 PM
  #77
Inkling
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
<lots o'stuff>
Go back 10 years and almost every point could have been said about Winnipeg. The markets are pretty much the same size (Quebec is a bit bigger IIRC). Quebec will have to be patient but they have an arena and an ownership group and that is a pretty big advantage over the long term.

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Old
03-13-2017, 01:15 PM
  #78
Slashers98
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Another Western location is ahead of Quebec for expansion. Eastern conference relocation is possible but I don't see anyone moving soon.
And what location would it be? I'm curious...

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Old
03-13-2017, 01:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Come on, stop with the melodrama.

A few points:

1. Québecor is willing to pay, there is no evidence of the contrary.

2. People in Québec will do what they've always done for season tickets: Buy them as a group and then split the tickets.

3. Whatever the NHL thinks, at some point they might not have a choice.

4. Karmanos isn't immortal. He's a sickly extremely old man, unable to even keep occupying his seat on the board of governors. Sure, he might be patient.... for now. But that's not in any way, shape or form a tenable position. His heirs aren't gonna be willing to waste 25 million dollars a year on financing the losses of the Hurricanes.

5. Who will pay the 25 million dollars in yearly losses of the Coyotes if they go downtown? Arizona wont. The Suns wont. Barroway isn't made of money. The NHL has already given obscene amounts of money in Interest-free loans to the Coyotes... This is also not a tenable situation long term.
He might be being a little melodramatic, but there is also truth to each of his points. No offense meant, but you're essentially posting the exact same thing he did, just in reverse.

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Old
03-13-2017, 01:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
He might be being a little melodramatic, but there is also truth to each of his points. No offense meant, but you're essentially posting the exact same thing he did, just in reverse.
And as another poster pointed out, all of these so called barriers also applied to Winnipeg less the expansion phase as there wasn't one after MTS Centre opening and look how that turned out.

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Old
03-13-2017, 01:57 PM
  #81
Jerzey Devil
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If it's by relocation, I hope they never get a team.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:03 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
If it's by relocation, I hope they never get a team.
Have you ever heard of the Colorado Rockies?

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:10 PM
  #83
Jerzey Devil
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Originally Posted by Blue Warriors View Post
Have you ever heard of the Colorado Rockies?
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:21 PM
  #84
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post

- They couldn't afford the 500M upfront. They are a publicly-traded company, they have share-holders to answer to. Putting that kind of debt on when the ROI is very suspect won't sit well with investors. It is a huge risk and the ROI is linked to other parts of the business, not to the team itself. The team will likely lose money or break even.
People overlook this like it is no big deal but it is #1 to me. Look it much easier to claim "Bettman hates Canada" than to look at the real issues facing Quebec. Plus getting a $650,000,000 CAN loan to finance the team can be iffy. There is risk in a new team in Quebec and investors and banks did not get rich taking those types of risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
I have dealt with this attitude for years on here
"There are no fans there"
"They didn't even want a team"
"Nobody there likes hockey"

All bogus phrases used to justify the removal of a team to a location that lost it's team. The fans are heartbroken when their team moves whether it be in Atlanta or Quebec, but it is justified with this thought process. Nordiques were "stolen" but Thrashers had to be moved.


Last edited by Gnashville: 03-13-2017 at 02:29 PM.
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Old
03-13-2017, 02:21 PM
  #85
Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
You realize that Carolina and Arizona are relocated teams - assuming that was your point?

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:26 PM
  #86
Slashers98
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
The NHL is already failing in multiple cities so your point is moot.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:27 PM
  #87
Slashers98
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
People overlook this like it is no big deal but it is #1 to me. Look it much easier to claim "Bettman hates Canada" than to look at the real issues facing Quebec. Plus getting a $650,000,000 CAN loan to finance the team can be iffy. There is risk in a new team in Quebec and investors and banks did not get rich taking those types of risk.
haha you guys don't get it... Quebec City was never going to get an expansion team. We're Little Gary's fallback option when one his struggling markets goes belly up and a franchise needs to be moved.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:30 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You realize that Carolina and Arizona are relocated teams - assuming that was your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
i believe his point fugu is the bolded

arizona and us have issues

but neither of us have yet to fail

at least not yet

this is why i treat the revamped jets with a special kinda of anathema

not because winnipeg got a team again but rather because of how the thrashers fans were treated

one would think that fans in cities that lost franchises would be a little bit more sympathetic towards fans of current teams whose futures are walking on the edge of a knife

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:34 PM
  #89
Hal1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
Since Winnipeg got the Jets back, we know the it's possible for us to have our team back, everything is in place.
We see a team that will have no place to play next year and have many osbtacle ahead to have a new one.
We see someone trying to sell a team for many years and convince buyer that is a nice venture when the building is half-empty most a the time.
You can't blame us to see our future in that....

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03-13-2017, 02:38 PM
  #90
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You realize that Carolina and Arizona are relocated teams - assuming that was your point?
I am also pretty sure Arizona and Carolina fans did not make jokes at the expense of fans in Hartford and Winnipeg. Winnipeg fans and local and national media were as classless as it gets towards Atlanta when the Thrashers moved. No reason to think Quebec fans and media would act any differently.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:40 PM
  #91
Jerzey Devil
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
People overlook this like it is no big deal but it is #1 to me. Look it much easier to claim "Bettman hates Canada" than to look at the real issues facing Quebec. Plus getting a $650,000,000 CAN loan to finance the team can be iffy. There is risk in a new team in Quebec and investors and banks did not get rich taking those types of risk.

I have dealt with this attitude for years on here
"There are no fans there"
"They didn't even want a team"
"Nobody there likes hockey"

All bogus phrases used to justify the removal of a team to a location that lost it's team. The fans are heartbroken when their team moves whether it be in Atlanta or Quebec, but it is justified with this thought process. Nordiques were "stolen" but Thrashers had to be moved.
We hear it in Jersey a lot too. As you probably know, Jersey was threatening to relocate to Nashville for a while before they just expanded there.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:42 PM
  #92
Jerzey Devil
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You realize that Carolina and Arizona are relocated teams - assuming that was your point?
And if people in Carolina and AZ were taunting fans of Quebec and Hartford I would have said the same thing. Well at least if it happened today I would. It's just incredibly disrespectful to me.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:43 PM
  #93
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
haha you guys don't get it... Quebec City was never going to get an expansion team. We're Little Gary's fallback option when one his struggling markets goes belly up and a franchise needs to be moved.
Once again you insult Bettman instead of looking a legitimate issues with Quebec and Quebecor's bid.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:43 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Hal1971 View Post
Since Winnipeg got the Jets back, we know the it's possible for us to have our team back, everything is in place.
We see a team that will have no place to play next year and have many osbtacle ahead to have a new one.
We see someone trying to sell a team for many years and convince buyer that is a nice venture when the building is half-empty most a the time.
You can't blame us to see our future in that....
this is exactly his point though

no one is saying you should not have a team it is just that as exciting as it is that you may get one in the not too distant future all we are asking is that you wait for one of us to actually fail first

rather than hoping for us fail

you have already lost a franchise in the past

you should know how it feels when your team's future is in limbo

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:44 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I am also pretty sure Arizona and Carolina fans did not make jokes at the expense of fans in Hartford and Winnipeg. Winnipeg fans and local and national media were as classless as it gets towards Atlanta when the Thrashers moved. No reason to think Quebec fans and media would act any differently.
This is quite false. Leonsis spoke out publicly when the NHL put in the currency equalization program.

There were also several Canadians and Winnipeggers who were NOT joining in that parade here. The media does a lot of things for traffic, but it was true that the Thrashers had no choice but to move.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:46 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
I would have preferred expansion too, but the NHL has other plans. It's not a question of needs, it will come down to a business decision. We're not entitled to anything. Blame the NHL for creating this environment, not the hockey fans.

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03-13-2017, 02:46 PM
  #97
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
We hear it in Jersey a lot too. As you probably know, Jersey was threatening to relocate to Nashville for a while before they just expanded there.
That honestly was never going to happen. Nashville's arena was incomplete at that time and McMullen was using use to get a better deal in Jersey. It was fine we got a team through expansion and Jersey won a few cups.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:48 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
And if people in Carolina and AZ were taunting fans of Quebec and Hartford I would have said the same thing. Well at least if it happened today I would. It's just incredibly disrespectful to me.
Just don't lump all of them together. I have/had some Cdn mods and admins who fought as hard as you did about the negativity. Not denying some of it was heard here as well.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:51 PM
  #99
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This is quite false. Leonsis spoke out publicly when the NHL put in the currency equalization program.

There were also several Canadians and Winnipeggers who were NOT joining in that parade here. The media does a lot of things for traffic, but it was true that the Thrashers had no choice but to move.
What does Leonsis have to do with anything I said? He spoke out in response to fans complaining about revenue sharing years after the equalization plan BTW.

They were quite silent if they felt sympathy for Atlanta.

The bogus "I feel so sorry for the fans in Atlanta, all 10 of them" was the type of comment that I was talking about.

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:55 PM
  #100
Carolinas Identity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This is quite false. Leonsis spoke out publicly when the NHL put in the currency equalization program.

There were also several Canadians and Winnipeggers who were NOT joining in that parade here. The media does a lot of things for traffic, but it was true that the Thrashers had no choice but to move.




no one here is debating otherwise

what we are debating like gnashville posted is the lack of respect that is often (not always but often) demonstrated towards fans in the south

i will not delve into specifics in this forum but feel free to shoot me a pm if you want to

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
The bogus "I feel so sorry for the fans in Atlanta, all 10 of them" was the type of comment that I was talking about.
i wish to hell i could remember who sent it but someone fairly prominent sent out a tweet after edmonton beat out columbus for the #1 pick that draft that was something along the lines of "both of the blue jackets fans are devastated"

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