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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Quebec Nordiques: expansion or relocation

View Poll Results: Will Quebec City get a team via expansion or relocation?
Expansion 54 10.51%
Relocation 345 67.12%
QC will not get an NHL team 115 22.37%
Voters: 514. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-13-2017, 02:56 PM
  #101
Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
What does Leonsis have to do with anything I said? He spoke out in response to fans complaining about revenue sharing years after the equalization plan BTW.

They were quite silent if they felt sympathy for Atlanta.

The bogus "I feel so sorry for the fans in Atlanta, all 10 of them" was the type of comment that I was talking about.
You remember all the bad but none of the good. You're also forgetting the great draft we had here on HF for the Thrashers fans. It was really a blast. And surely you remember the red carpet Nashvillle's forum rolled out for them.

We also lost a global mod (Thrasher fan from Alabama), early 30s, who passed away some time after the team moved. He was one of our best globals too.


Last edited by Fugu: 03-13-2017 at 03:02 PM.
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Old
03-13-2017, 03:01 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Blue Warriors View Post
I would have preferred expansion too, but the NHL has other plans. It's not a question of needs, it will come down to a business decision. We're not entitled to anything. Blame the NHL for creating this environment, not the hockey fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
People overlook this like it is no big deal but it is #1 to me. Look it much easier to claim "Bettman hates Canada" than to look at the real issues facing Quebec. Plus getting a $650,000,000 CAN loan to finance the team can be iffy. There is risk in a new team in Quebec and investors and banks did not get rich taking those types of risk.

I have dealt with this attitude for years on here
"There are no fans there"
"They didn't even want a team"
"Nobody there likes hockey"

All bogus phrases used to justify the removal of a team to a location that lost it's team. The fans are heartbroken when their team moves whether it be in Atlanta or Quebec, but it is justified with this thought process. Nordiques were "stolen" but Thrashers had to be moved.
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
i believe his point fugu is the bolded

arizona and us have issues

but neither of us have yet to fail

at least not yet

this is why i treat the revamped jets with a special kinda of anathema

not because winnipeg got a team again but rather because of how the thrashers fans were treated

one would think that fans in cities that lost franchises would be a little bit more sympathetic towards fans of current teams whose futures are walking on the edge of a knife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal1971 View Post
Since Winnipeg got the Jets back, we know the it's possible for us to have our team back, everything is in place.
We see a team that will have no place to play next year and have many osbtacle ahead to have a new one.
We see someone trying to sell a team for many years and convince buyer that is a nice venture when the building is half-empty most a the time.
You can't blame us to see our future in that....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Just don't lump all of them together. I have/had some Cdn mods and admins who fought as hard as you did about the negativity. Not denying some of it was heard here as well.
I am with Fugu.


And for everyone. The NHL is a business. They make decision based on money and nothing else. A few fans being rude =/= the hockey fanbase at large. Ultimately it comes down to whether there is someone to own the team and if there is an arena.

That's all. And I still support expansion for Quebec.

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Old
03-13-2017, 03:01 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
What does Leonsis have to do with anything I said? He spoke out in response to fans complaining about revenue sharing years after the equalization plan BTW.

They were quite silent if they felt sympathy for Atlanta.

The bogus "I feel so sorry for the fans in Atlanta, all 10 of them" was the type of comment that I was talking about.
Leonsis comments came during the equalization plan.


And please don't revise HF history. I know what happened, but again, it was not everyone.

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Old
03-13-2017, 03:03 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You remember all the bad but none of the good. You're also forgetting the great draft we had here on HF for the Thrashers fans. It was really a blast. And surely you remember the red carpet Nashvillle's forum rolled out for them.

We also lost a global mod, early 30s, who passed away some time after the team moved. He was one of our best globals too.
as fun as that was i am p sure every one of them would have gave it all away to still have their team in atlanta

i would be curious to know how many of those draftees are still fans of the teams that drafted them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
I am with Fugu.


And for everyone. The NHL is a business. They make decision based on money and nothing else. A few fans being rude =/= the hockey fanbase at large. Ultimately it comes down to whether there is someone to own the team and if there is an arena.

That's all. And I still support expansion for Quebec.

also we all know that there will be a few bad apples in every barrel but the fact the vitriol seems to be almost universally coming from one direction leads me to believe that it is just more than random happenstance nor a "few rude fans" because every team has a "few rude fans"


Last edited by Fugu: 03-13-2017 at 04:25 PM.
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Old
03-13-2017, 03:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
as fun as that was i am p sure every one of them would have gave it all away to still have their team in atlanta

i would be curious to know how many of those draftees are still fans of the teams that drafted them
At least instead of flipping them all the bird this place tried to make the best of a bad situation.

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03-13-2017, 03:14 PM
  #106
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I voted Relocation but i almost feel like Expansion i think it will be tough but QC will have a team in next 3 years

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03-13-2017, 03:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
At least instead of flipping them all the bird this place tried to make the best of a bad situation.
who here flipped any of them the bird?

you misconstrued my point

yes the best of a bad situation was made

the hurricanes have been doing the same thing every year i have been a member of this site for the playoffs (drafts so we can have teams to cheer for aka - best of a bad situation cause our on ice product is terrible)

my point was just that as much as the best of a bad situation was made it still must have stung for the thrasher fans

that is like telling a 10 year old that their puppy got hit by a car but not to worry because you are taking them to disney land

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Old
03-13-2017, 03:19 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
who here flipped any of them the bird?


my point was just that as much as the best of a bad situation was made it still must have stung for the thrasher fans
I never misunderstood your point.

I didn't say anyone flipped them the bird.

I'm saying instead of doing the bird flipping they tried to make the best of a bad situation.

They could have just said, well that sucks and moved on like nothing happened.

That didn't happen here.

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03-13-2017, 03:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jerzey Devil View Post
I don't care. Wishing for teams to be relocated it ******** and as long as people wish other teams to be moved I will root against those fans ever getting a team. Expansion or nothing. At least wait till a team fails in a city before trying to leach them. Why are the needs of people from Quebec more important than the needs of people in Arizona or Carolina or Tampa?
The NHL business plan is broken and relocation potentials are just going to be the reality of the future. I'm not "wishing" relocation on anyone, but I am realistic in that it is a possibility. In the case of Quebec City I am not wishing them a relocated team, I'm just saying that IMHO that is the only way they will get one. And the fact that that possibility even exists is the fault of the NHL.

The NHL's goal is to play in the same sandbox as the NFL and MLB financially which is never going to happen, but regardless, as they drive to this goal they will be inevitably pricing themselves out of certain markets, and teams will get shuffled around. As the cost goes up, so does the pinch to the teams at the bottom of the scale... and someone will always be at the bottom.

The OP asked "What do you think?" not "What do you wish?"

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03-13-2017, 03:27 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
as fun as that was i am p sure every one of them would have gave it all away to still have their team in atlanta

i would be curious to know how many of those draftees are still fans of the teams that drafted them


also we all know that there will be a few bad apples in every barrel but the fact the vitriol seems to be almost universally coming from one direction leads me to believe that it is just more than random happenstance nor a "few rude fans" because every team has a "few rude fans"
So why complain about it all the time. Forget them and cheer for your team. The NHL is not the only place this happens, NFL fans are very against Jacksonville and LA being in the league.


Last edited by Fugu: 03-13-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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03-13-2017, 03:31 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
So why complain about it all the time. Forget them and cheer for your team. The NHL is not the only place this happens, NFL fans are very against Jacksonville and LA being in the league.
Agree. As a former Montreal Expos fan, I'm quite familiar with the whole "boo hoo, they're being mean to us" thing but ultimately the only response is to do what the Predators' fans are doing this year, which is to fill the building. Who's talking about Nashville moving now? If you don't fill the building and don't watch on TV then your team is going to be in the cross-hairs of fans that think they can do better than you.

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03-13-2017, 03:32 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
I never misunderstood your point.

I didn't say anyone flipped them the bird.

I'm saying instead of doing the bird flipping they tried to make the best of a bad situation.

They could have just said, well that sucks and moved on like nothing happened.

That didn't happen here.
What exactly is 'here'? I think a lot of people like to confuse the microcosm echo-chamber that is HF with the entirety of North America. Even if every man woman and child in Canada actually was the sadistic sociopathic gremlins certain people constantly make them out to be, they'd still outnumbered a clear 10:1.

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03-13-2017, 03:33 PM
  #113
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Let's take a deep breath and realize something here.

As easy as it seems to some fans in Quebec to jump onto ''Move them now'' ship about southern teams...
As easy as it seems to some fans in specific markets to call out loud Quebec fans ''Vultures''...

Don't you people realize it's the league's way of doing thing that we're at this point.

I am from Quebec.

Ask me if I would have preferred to get Nordiques thru expansion back in 1998, the same time as Nashville Predators...or in 1999 with the Atlanta Thrashers, or in 2000 with Blue Jackets and the Wild, or in 2016 with Las Vegas...


Ask me if I prefer waiting for any of 30/31 other teams to get into trouble and land in Quebec due to necessity...or get them thru expansion...I would have said 100 times and 100 more gimme the expansion team NOW.

Ask yourself, since your city does have a team. If tomorrow that team was no more (nonobstant the reason), ask yourself what would you like to happen...

a) Get the team back the soonest it can be done...thru relocation.
b) Wait 5-10-15-20-25 years or more, to get it thru expansion.

Be real for once, be honest. 99.9% of all of us would have chosen A. Every single ****ing time.

No matter how much you hate the other guy for wishing he got an NHL team in his city, you would have done the same.

It's easy to talk today about how no one in Arizona mocked Winnipeg when Jets left...how no one in Denver mocked Quebec fans when Nordiques left...how now one in Greensboro mocked Hartford fans when Whalers left...how no one in Dallas mocked Minnesota fans when North Stars left...

I am not sure if HF existed back then, but it definitely wasn't as popular as it is today. This type of board certainly did not exist. Blame who you want, but look in the mirror and have a honest thought before throwing the rock.

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Old
03-13-2017, 03:34 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir View Post
What exactly is 'here'? I think a lot of people like to confuse the microcosm echo-chamber that is HF with the entirety of North America. Even if every man woman and child in Canada actually was the sadistic sociopathic gremlins you people constantly make them out to be, they'd still outnumbered a clear 10:1.
Here meaning HFboards.

I'm saying I feel the people who make this site a great place did a great job at handling the situation. They most often than not do.

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03-13-2017, 03:36 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You remember all the bad but none of the good. You're also forgetting the great draft we had here on HF for the Thrashers fans. It was really a blast. And surely you remember the red carpet Nashvillle's forum rolled out for them.

We also lost a global mod (Thrasher fan from Alabama), early 30s, who passed away some time after the team moved. He was one of our best globals too.
I am not just talking about just on here but on The CBC broadcast of the game. The media reaction of "how does it feel to play in front of real fans for the 1st time?" or the other type of condesending comments towards Atlanta. But I am sure the drafted fans would love their team back.


FYI: here is the first CBC broadcast of the Jets listen to the insults thrown out towards Atlanta. I have not watched the whole broadcast but at 1:34:15 the whole "In some markets comments" is not a major insult but still implying negativity toward US sunbelt teams. There were certainly worse during that game but I don't have time to find them all. Hughson did the whole "sorry for all 10 Thrashers fans" joke at some point and it does not have the comments from McClean about Atlanta fans and sunbelt fans in general.

Even Nashville got flack for recruiting Thrashers fans to the team, Scott Burnside (a known Predators hater that sided with Balsillie) went after the team for that.

And believe me the comments from the fans and media during Balsillie's attempt to buy the team here was classless and borderline libel.


Last edited by Gnashville: 03-13-2017 at 03:46 PM.
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Old
03-13-2017, 03:39 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I am not just talking about here but on The CBC broadcast of the game. The media reaction of "how does it feel to play in front of real fans for the 1st time?" or the other type of condesending comments towards Atlanta.

here is the first CBC broadcast of the Jets listen to the insults thrown out towards Atlanta. I have not watched the whole broadcast but at 1:34:15 the whole "In some markets comments" is not a major insult but still implying negativity toward US sunbelt teams.

Even Nashville got flack for recruiting Thrashers fans to the team, Scott Burnside (a known Predators hater that sided with Balsillie) went after the team for that.

And believe me the comments from the fans and media during Balsillie's attempt to buy the team here was classless and borderline libel.
Gnashville, if your hate is toward the media. You and I could be the best buddies because guess what, even I hate local media the most, then international the 2nd.

But media follows their agenda, agenda that brings them the most cash into pockets.

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03-13-2017, 03:41 PM
  #117
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So why complain about it all the time. Forget them and cheer for your team. The NHL is not the only place this happens, NFL fans are very against Jacksonville and LA being in the league.
forgive me but i am not 100% sure i understand exactly what your point is?

does me having an opinion that differs from yours mean i am "complaining"?

also

was the need to take a shot at my equally bad nfl franchise really necessary?

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03-13-2017, 03:48 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
forgive me but i am not 100% sure i understand exactly what your point is?

does me having an opinion that differs from yours mean i am "complaining"?

also

was the need to take a shot at my equally bad nfl franchise really necessary?
My point is why are you letting people you don't even know on the web effect what you think about hockey fans? As fugu pointed out, there was a lot of love too. And I didn't know you were a Jacksonville fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
Agree. As a former Montreal Expos fan, I'm quite familiar with the whole "boo hoo, they're being mean to us" thing but ultimately the only response is to do what the Predators' fans are doing this year, which is to fill the building. Who's talking about Nashville moving now? If you don't fill the building and don't watch on TV then your team is going to be in the cross-hairs of fans that think they can do better than you.
Bingo! It's all about winning in the end, wherever you are.

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03-13-2017, 03:51 PM
  #119
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lotsa weird and emotionally charged posts in this thread

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03-13-2017, 03:57 PM
  #120
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lotsa weird and emotionally charged posts in this thread
I agree.

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03-13-2017, 04:00 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Gnashville, if your hate is toward the media. You and I could be the best buddies because guess what, even I hate local media the most, then international the 2nd.

But media follows their agenda, agenda that brings them the most cash into pockets.
I get they are in business of selling papers, getting viewers, web hits, etc.. They would not be making those comments if there was not a market for those type of comments. The comment section of the media outlets gauge what people think and they were worse than here.

When the fake news came out that about the potential 4 team expansion Vegas, Toronto, Quebec, Seattle (which I believe was a little more truthful) The focus was all on Vegas "I can't believe they are putting another sunbelt team" "Bettman hates Canada" etc.. instead of being happy for the 2 new Canadian teams

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03-13-2017, 04:02 PM
  #122
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lotsa weird and emotionally charged posts in this thread
Full moon

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03-13-2017, 04:04 PM
  #123
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QC's eventual entrance into the league just looks too obvious.

-Working closely with league for years
-Being present @ Vegas' announcement, which they frankly had no business being there if they had no future with the league
-League-approved ownership group
-Daly saying he'd love to see a team there during his career
-Brand new world class hockey arena, built to NHL spec and in consultation with the league office, which the NHL has used to host several of its own games
-Proven fanbase and market
-Bettman's desire to "right the previous wrongs"

I haven't followed the business side of hockey long enough to know, but I doubt there are any other examples of a city being so ready and in such close discussions with the NHL and be permanently declined a team. Some sort of unmitigated disaster has to happen to this process/organization for us to come to 2020 and not see a QC NHL team anywhere within sight.

Expansion without any of the current teams being relocated, I doubt. But then again there seems to be some tolerance for the league going to 33 or 34 teams, so QC could come after Seattle + another western conference team.

Quebec's fans are looking like "vultures" because the league set them up that way. If they simply granted expansion for the pain and agony of accepting half a billion dollars from Quebecor (which is why I think the "deferral" might have been done for QC's benefit, not the league's) few would pay any attention to what is going on with the Coyotes or Hurricanes. Colorado, as noted, was the beneficiary of a Stanley Cup winning team from Quebec. Carolina robbed Hartford, and the Coyotes took the Jets. What goes around will come around and for better or worse, there is little sympathy to be shared across both sides of the line.

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03-13-2017, 04:05 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I get they are in business of selling papers, getting viewers, web hits, etc.. They would not be making those comments if there was not a market for those type of comments. The comment section of the media outlets gauge what people think and they were worse than here.

When the fake news came out that about the potential 4 team expansion Vegas, Toronto, Quebec, Seattle (which I believe was a little more truthful) The focus was all on Vegas "I can't believe they are putting another sunbelt team" "Bettman hates Canada" etc.. instead of being happy for the 2 new Canadian teams
I already lost both the Nordiques and the Expos, so why would I be happy for Las Vegas when Quebec City has to wait once again despite all the struggling Sunbelt markets?

[MOD]


Last edited by Frenchy: 03-13-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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03-13-2017, 04:18 PM
  #125
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I don't see how the Hurricanes can stay in Carolina with the worst attendance in the whole league. Mr. Karmanos might want to sell to local business people but they won't be able to attract fans in their arena anyway.

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