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Here Comes Brian Elliott

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Old
03-20-2017, 10:51 AM
  #51
DJJones
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Originally Posted by karnige View Post
well when the playoffs start and it becomes a physical nightmare and the crease is crowded even more it'll be interesting how he responds. he's so streaky
That's where he's been amazing lately. Even last night he made some unreal close quarter scrambles.

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03-20-2017, 10:58 AM
  #52
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Jake Allen and Brian Elliott have some sort of magic curse that ties their performance together.

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03-20-2017, 11:07 AM
  #53
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+26 actually in that span.

Flames defense deserves a lot of the blame at the start.

Brodie, Grossman, Wideman, and Jokkipakka were just handing over scoring chances on silver platters.

When we started playing defense, Elliot started playing like a stud.
I don't look at spurts. I look at the whole picture. Good for them they turned it around (finally) but in the end, stats are stats.

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03-20-2017, 11:09 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
I don't look at spurts. I look at the whole picture. Good for them they turned it around (finally) but in the end, stats are stats.
By that logic, shouldn't you only be looking at cumulative career stats?

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03-20-2017, 11:13 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DJJones View Post
+26 actually in that span.

Flames defense deserves a lot of the blame at the start.

Brodie, Grossman, Wideman, and Jokkipakka were just handing over scoring chances on silver platters.

When we started playing defense, Elliot started playing like a stud.
He is Pavalec-level behind a poor defense, but he will get you Ws if the D plays well. He is a system goalie 100%, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The issue people take with system goalies is that they typically don't "steal" games often. When the playoffs come around, you usually need your goalie to steal you a game or two if you're planning on winning 16 games along the way.

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03-20-2017, 11:16 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
I don't look at spurts. I look at the whole picture. Good for them they turned it around (finally) but in the end, stats are stats.
Well that's a terrible way to look at things haha. You think this;

Gio - Wideman
Brodie - Engellend
Grossman - Hamilton

plus Johnny and Monahan missing training camp with a new coach.

Is comparable to;

Gio - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Barkowski - Engellend

with Johnny and Monahan back to normal form.

Just because it was in the same season? So you don't believe in adaption, chemistry, and trends at all?

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03-20-2017, 11:17 AM
  #57
OvermanKingGainer
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By the way, this is now Elliott's sixth consecutive season with a quality start % above .600

That is remarkable consistency as even Vezina Price was slightly below .600 quality start %

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03-20-2017, 11:18 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
He is Pavalec-level behind a poor defense, but he will get you Ws if the D plays well. He is a system goalie 100%, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The issue people take with system goalies is that they typically don't "steal" games often. When the playoffs come around, you usually need your goalie to steal you a game or two if you're planning on winning 16 games along the way.
Ya I have no problem with him being a system goalie as long as our top 4 is healthy. We have a great system with them in.

Stole the Detroit game. Pitt game was a goalie duel. Probably missing some. Otherwise you only let in 2 goals a game and it's on our offense to win the game.

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03-20-2017, 11:19 AM
  #59
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no one is saying it doesn't count. whatever that means. what they are saying is that the way he has been playing the last few months is more probative when evaluating what type of goalie he is currently and heading into the playoffs. the answer to that question, is top 3 in the league.
It's not really though. People like to just take out the bad periods and pretend it isn't a part of a player's track record. Because it happened at the beginning of the season, it's easy to do for someone like Elliott. It's obvious he wasn't going to continue to be bad like at the beginning of the season just as it's obvious he isn't going to continue this hot play. His averages are going to end up roughly where he should be, which is probably in the .915-.920 range for save percentage. He's not a top 3 goalie in the league unless you take away his bad games and not anyone else's.

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03-20-2017, 11:21 AM
  #60
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Elliot has had streaks of brilliant play in the past with teams, but the good news for Calgary if I recall correctly, is that Elliot's streaks last a long time. He could be this great for the whole playoffs.

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03-20-2017, 11:21 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
I don't look at spurts. I look at the whole picture. Good for them they turned it around (finally) but in the end, stats are stats.
56 games is a spurt?

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03-20-2017, 11:25 AM
  #62
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It's not really though. People like to just take out the bad periods and pretend it isn't a part of a player's track record. Because it happened at the beginning of the season, it's easy to do for someone like Elliott. It's obvious he wasn't going to continue to be bad like at the beginning of the season just as it's obvious he isn't going to continue this hot play. His averages are going to end up roughly where he should be, which is probably in the .915-.920 range for save percentage. He's not a top 3 goalie in the league unless you take away his bad games and not anyone else's.
I agree. He's been amazing lately. We haven't had a goalie play this good since prime Kiprusoff. But everyone goes through hot streaks and cold streaks. Consistency matters and I hope he can keep up his good play.

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03-20-2017, 11:25 AM
  #63
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Hoping he keeps it up for the playoffs.

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03-20-2017, 11:26 AM
  #64
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I don't look at spurts. I look at the whole picture. Good for them they turned it around (finally) but in the end, stats are stats.
that is quite the myopic approach.

you don't think that the way a team is playing in the months heading into the playoffs is more probative as to what type of team they currently are then just taking an average over the whole year?

Minnesota should have nothing to worry about then...they were dynamite before Christmas!

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03-20-2017, 11:33 AM
  #65
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The irony of people looking at the purported "whole picture" is how they elect to omit Elliott's five years in St. Louis to emphasize Elliott's rough October / first half of November. You want big picture? Big sample size? We have a 222 game sample in which this guy has posted a .922 save percentage, led his team to the WCF, and holds a simply elite quality start percentage of .649 - this sample includes Elliott's October and November. Find me another goalie in the NHL who has a 220+ game sample as strong, and then make the same arguments that other goalie is just a system goalie.

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03-20-2017, 11:35 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Duffalufagus View Post
that is quite the myopic approach.

you don't think that the way a team is playing in the months heading into the playoffs is more probative as to what type of team they currently are then just taking an average over the whole year?

Minnesota should have nothing to worry about then...they were dynamite before Christmas!
Not at all. Teams have spurts all the time. Doesn't mean that it will dictate the final result. For all we know, Edmonton and Calgary could be 1st round exits because both teams just can't cut it, even though both teams have had good 'spurts' at the end of the season. Same conversation happened when Cam Talbot played the last part of last season and tried to prove a point that he can turn this ship around, but everyone was looking at the full season. Not the 2nd half of his play. That's just how it is. Do you think 20 years later anyone is gonna remember Elliot played phenomenal the last 56 games? People will only see the stats of the full season. That's why I don't look at half a season or 2/3rds of a season. There's nothing wrong with what I'm saying. If you don't like it, then that's fine.

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03-20-2017, 11:39 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
It's not really though. People like to just take out the bad periods and pretend it isn't a part of a player's track record. Because it happened at the beginning of the season, it's easy to do for someone like Elliott. It's obvious he wasn't going to continue to be bad like at the beginning of the season just as it's obvious he isn't going to continue this hot play. His averages are going to end up roughly where he should be, which is probably in the .915-.920 range for save percentage. He's not a top 3 goalie in the league unless you take away his bad games and not anyone else's.
no, he is a top 3 goalie in the league since the all-star break. that is a fact. you say that won't continue based on historical precedent. you may be right. we'll see.

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03-20-2017, 11:41 AM
  #68
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I watched Flames first 3 games this season and i actually though that his play in those games was some of the worst goaltending i had ever seen. He just looked awful and had holes everywhere. Watched Flames a bit lately aswell and he looks completely different. Im not talking about how many saves he makes etc, he just looks like he is going to stop pucks. At the start of the season you could just see he had no clue what he was doing.

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03-20-2017, 11:42 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by OvermanKingGainer View Post
The irony of people looking at the purported "whole picture" is how they elect to omit Elliott's five years in St. Louis to emphasize Elliott's rough October / first half of November. You want big picture? Big sample size? We have a 222 game sample in which this guy has posted a .922 save percentage, led his team to the WCF, and holds a simply elite quality start percentage of .649 - this sample includes Elliott's October and November. Find me another goalie in the NHL who has a 220+ game sample as strong, and then make the same arguments that other goalie is just a system goalie.
You serious? There's a lot of goalies who have posted the same numbers over that span. Talbot for example, albeit, played 177 games has a .923 in that span. There's nothing special from what you are posting. This isn't to take away what Elliot has done in his career but your making him out to be a HHOF Goalie.

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03-20-2017, 11:43 AM
  #70
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Not at all. Teams have spurts all the time. Doesn't mean that it will dictate the final result. For all we know, Edmonton and Calgary could be 1st round exits because both teams just can't cut it, even though both teams have had good 'spurts' at the end of the season. Same conversation happened when Cam Talbot played the last part of last season and tried to prove a point that he can turn this ship around, but everyone was looking at the full season. Not the 2nd half of his play. That's just how it is. Do you think 20 years later anyone is gonna remember Elliot played phenomenal the last 56 games? People will only see the stats of the full season. That's why I don't look at half a season or 2/3rds of a season. There's nothing wrong with what I'm saying. If you don't like it, then that's fine.
i don't disagree with anything you say. if we are just looking at how the year's stats will be judged when the season is over, no one will differentiate between what he (or the Flames) are doing now versus stinking up the league in the Fall.

But, if we are trying to analyze what type of goalie and team we are looking at right now, the suckitutde of october and november is arguably not very probative in that analysis.

lastly, your use of the term "spurt" is somewhat disingenuous. but you know that.

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03-20-2017, 11:44 AM
  #71
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i don't disagree with anything you say. if we are just looking at how the year's stats will be judged when the season is over, no one will differentiate between what he (or the Flames) are doing now versus stinking up the league in the Fall.

But, if we are trying to analyze what type of goalie and team we are looking at right now, the suckitutde of october and november is arguably not very probative in that analysis.

lastly, your use of the term "spurt" is somewhat disingenuous. but you know that.
Ok, spurt was maybe a poor used term. Let's change that to portion of the season.

Also it's true that once a goalie has settled in place, it can be a changing factor at the end of the season. However, seeing Elliot on St. Louis and Ottawa, he's never really been a guy you could always rely on for big games.

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03-20-2017, 11:45 AM
  #72
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Not at all. Teams have spurts all the time. Doesn't mean that it will dictate the final result. For all we know, Edmonton and Calgary could be 1st round exits because both teams just can't cut it, even though both teams have had good 'spurts' at the end of the season. Same conversation happened when Cam Talbot played the last part of last season and tried to prove a point that he can turn this ship around, but everyone was looking at the full season. Not the 2nd half of his play. That's just how it is. Do you think 20 years later anyone is gonna remember Elliot played phenomenal the last 56 games? People will only see the stats of the full season. That's why I don't look at half a season or 2/3rds of a season. There's nothing wrong with what I'm saying. If you don't like it, then that's fine.
Talbot has shown for quite some time he has the potential to be a really good starting goalie. He lost the starter role for a little bit mid season but then really turned it around and it's undeniable. In 20 years there won't be the recency to make those distinctions but it's pretty clear that for this season 56 games is more indicative of the level of play we can expect from the flames instead of 15 games that happened 4 months ago.

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03-20-2017, 11:48 AM
  #73
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Talbot has shown for quite some time he has the potential to be a really good starting goalie. He lost the starter role for a little bit mid season but then really turned it around and it's undeniable. In 20 years there won't be the recency to make those distinctions but it's pretty clear that for this season 56 games is more indicative of the level of play we can expect from the flames instead of 15 games that happened 4 months ago.
Yes, I can agree to this. All I'm saying is that no one will be looking at his 56 games and say he's Top 4 in the whole league. In the end, we will see if he can hold it together.

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03-20-2017, 02:16 PM
  #74
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Is it safe to say hes, "Roaring back?!"

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03-20-2017, 02:30 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
He is Pavalec-level behind a poor defense, but he will get you Ws if the D plays well. He is a system goalie 100%, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The issue people take with system goalies is that they typically don't "steal" games often. When the playoffs come around, you usually need your goalie to steal you a game or two if you're planning on winning 16 games along the way.
There isn't a goalie in the NHL that will be successful behind a terrible defense. Comparing him to Pavelic though, is beyond ridiculous.

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