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Are the players losing faith in Maurice?

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:37 PM
  #51
surixon
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I've been thinking lately that Maurice was doomed the minute management elected to switch gears and go with youth and a different template. I'm not a fan of the way he's coached and have voiced my share criticism but let's not forget the great job he did when he took over. He got the team invested and playing good hockey for the style of players he had. I think that is part of the problem right now.

People don't like and resist change, especially when it deviates from something they perceive as successful.

Usually when organizations want to undergo major changes they bring in a new person to facilitate the changes probably because it's easier to buy into what someone with a blank canvas is selling over someone with a predetermined style.

In the case of Maurice even if I where to be on board with him having a real solid plan on how to get this young team to play as a cohesive unit with s system that was indicative of the team, he was always fighting an uphill battle as the veteran players would resist his new direction in favor of his old one (Can you blame them, it lead to a franchise year with regards to points and they made the playoffs).
I feel a symptom of this could be all the dump a and chase hockey we see, the team has had success playing that system so the players revert back to it too often. Maybe this is against what Moe wants.

Having said that I don't think Maurice knows how to coach the type of system that will lead this team to success. I think he like the players is learning as they go through it which unfortunately is helping to lead to this mess we see.

So I think the problem is three fold.

1) Players having a hard time following the direction of the coaching staff after having success playing another style.

2) coaching staff having trouble crafting and implementing a system suitable to new player types on the team.

I think it all leads to the same thing though in that they need a fresh voice that with no prior history with the franchise to quicken the transition.

In part I think that's why org's like Toronto are doing well. They brought in a new coach to steer the new direction. Ditto with the Blue Jackets. It may work with Maurice but it will likely take much longer than what it should to get buy in.

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:43 PM
  #52
ERYX
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If it happened with Noel ... and has now happened with Maurice ... will it not happen with the next coach unless serious changes are made to the veteran core?

It seems to me that Maurice might not even be the cancer that needs to be cut out (though he probably needs to go at this point no matter what), or if he is then there is more than one cancer. Especially now that I've read that Jokinen quote about talking back to coaches (never heard that before) I am more convinced than ever that vets need to go not just the coach.

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03-12-2017, 01:45 PM
  #53
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What I`m wondering is when (or if) Chevy or someone in upper management approaches some of the main vets & determines if they are buying in or if the coaches have lost their trust. This has to happen. Does anyone know?

Certainly we can`t be that backwards as an organization that steps such as this wouldn't occur when we are underperforming as badly as we have. Not sure who management would approach, but certainly the C & As.

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03-12-2017, 01:49 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERYX View Post
If it happened with Noel ... and has now happened with Maurice ... will it not happen with the next coach unless serious changes are made to the veteran core?

It seems to me that Maurice might not even be the cancer that needs to be cut out (though he probably needs to go at this point no matter what), or if he is then there is more than one cancer. Especially now that I've read that Jokinen quote about talking back to coaches (never heard that before) I am more convinced than ever that vets need to go not just the coach.
I meant that Wheeler and Buff are the cancer. Maurice is just the unsightly mole on the chin.

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:49 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogie5 View Post
Why is Maurice so scared of Buff?
Time to put him in his place on the bench.
I'd have to put Buff poor play (and I don't give a **** attitude) & the way Mo *****-foots around that as a very serious problem -- perhaps the biggest problem when others see how he is handled vs the younger players.

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:51 PM
  #56
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history repeating itself. its scary how true ALL of that is.

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03-12-2017, 01:53 PM
  #57
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history repeating itself. its scary how true ALL of that is.
Why did the Canes hire him twice?

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:58 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Why did the Canes hire him twice?
the answer to that lies beyond my comprehension.

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03-12-2017, 02:14 PM
  #59
raideralex99
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Maurice is a .500 career coach ... do you really expect him to lead the Jets to the promised land?
It's like asking Thorburn who has never scored 10 goals in a season to scored 20.

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03-12-2017, 02:24 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I've been thinking lately that Maurice was doomed the minute management elected to switch gears and go with youth and a different template. I'm not a fan of the way he's coached and have voiced my share criticism but let's not forget the great job he did when he took over. He got the team invested and playing good hockey for the style of players he had. I think that is part of the problem right now.

People don't like and resist change, especially when it deviates from something they perceive as successful.

Usually when organizations want to undergo major changes they bring in a new person to facilitate the changes probably because it's easier to buy into what someone with a blank canvas is selling over someone with a predetermined style.

In the case of Maurice even if I where to be on board with him having a real solid plan on how to get this young team to play as a cohesive unit with s system that was indicative of the team, he was always fighting an uphill battle as the veteran players would resist his new direction in favor of his old one (Can you blame them, it lead to a franchise year with regards to points and they made the playoffs).
I feel a symptom of this could be all the dump a and chase hockey we see, the team has had success playing that system so the players revert back to it too often. Maybe this is against what Moe wants.

Having said that I don't think Maurice knows how to coach the type of system that will lead this team to success. I think he like the players is learning as they go through it which unfortunately is helping to lead to this mess we see.

So I think the problem is three fold.

1) Players having a hard time following the direction of the coaching staff after having success playing another style.

2) coaching staff having trouble crafting and implementing a system suitable to new player types on the team.

I think it all leads to the same thing though in that they need a fresh voice that with no prior history with the franchise to quicken the transition.

In part I think that's why org's like Toronto are doing well. They brought in a new coach to steer the new direction. Ditto with the Blue Jackets. It may work with Maurice but it will likely take much longer than what it should to get buy in.
This makes a lot of sense. I buy that some of the Jets' problems are due to "changing horses in midstream". And yeah, maybe the new horse is lame.

Maybe after two seasons of wallowing in the bottom of the standings, they might be more receptive to trying something new.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:38 PM
  #61
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Whatever happenened to Mo making them cry in the dressing room? Unless he meant making them cry from laughter.

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03-12-2017, 02:42 PM
  #62
Flair Hay
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I truly believe that Maurice is a good coach with certain weaknesses like the majority. To me, he did well with the team the one year Chevy actually gave him a good bottom six. But the message was a lot fresher then too. I get that. But it was a top 5 5v5 team.

I think he gets way too much flack on here though. In a league where the smallest advantages become huge, he's playing with a super talented team where 3/4 of the good pieces are under 23. Talented but inconsistent and mentally fragile. And we already have one guy wearing an A who fits that description as well..

I can't fight every criticism against him and wouldn't. But most of it really does seem to be reactionary, elementary stuff.

Maurice did fine with in game adjustments when we had a team with three good lines. Young players can have a positive impact overall, but they are liabilities in key moments in games. This is a reality that faces our team every time an opponent is a seasoned playoff team.

To me biggest problem with Mo is wanting a top six and bottom six instead of a top nine.

TLDR: Chevy needs to give Maurice more to work with or else the next .500 coach we hire is doomed as well.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:44 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raideralex99 View Post
Maurice is a .500 career coach ... do you really expect him to lead the Jets to the promised land?
It's like asking Thorburn who has never scored 10 goals in a season to scored 20.
Plenty of so so coaches have taken really good teams far in the playoffs. Including Maurice. He was given a .500 roster this year with a few obstacles and that's around where we are.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:44 PM
  #64
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I think it is easy to throw Maurice under the bus now. The team is not performing.

He had this team playing the right way. When he arrived. Playoffs in his first full season.

We lose our top PK unit in Slater-Frolik. Lose Maurice's secret weapon Stempniak. We add Ehlers, management decision. Copp. We add Burmi, management decision. Petan seems to have been a management decision too. But those players are not replacing what we lost, Copp excepted

Chemistry from year prior is completely dissipated. He no longer has a 3rd line. Burmi and Stafford drag Lowry into the abyss. Penalties and PK bury us. Why Lipon did not make the team over Petan was a mystery to me. Best PKer we have not on the roster. PK is a mess last year. Stuart has a bad year, Toby regresses, Myers gets hurt, and Buff-Chiarot fall apart. Stuart is buried by the analytics, our defense really falls apart when he and Chiarot end up as a pairing. End result, we trade our captain, our gritty leader. We never contend for a playoff spot. We finish strong by fielding a youthful but talented 3rd line of Petan-Copp-Armia, Lowry finds his game again with Thorburn and Tanev, grinding it out. Neither line reappears.

The management then seems to decide that a youth movement is needed. Connor brought in, seems to have been guaranteed games. We draft Laine, but the defensive shortcomings on our roster are still not addressed. Trouba holds out.
We tread water with Morrissey's emergence. Enstrom-Myers are strong. Myers goes down, and we lose 4 in a row with Trouba coming back. Mostly because we have no way of replacing Little. Our penalty kill is awful, Burmi and Stafford do nothing to help. Stuart rides pine, but we are no better.
Goaltending is a nightmare, but management seems to be ok with Hellebuyck's inconsistency, and Hutch losing consistently.

Still he manages to keep us in the race with some brilliant moves, like replacing Scheif with Wheeler for 2 games.

Maurice can not criticise the management paying him. He has to play his cards.
The team is no longer reflective of his style of coaching however.

The transition speed we are built upon, does not have the grit to change the balance of scoring in our favour. PP loses us important games when we are still in contention. Veteran mistakes, rookie mistakes.

Then the leaders pack it in. Maurice is left to direct the mess we have today. He will likely lose his job, as a result of the team's failure. Maybe it is his fault. But Chevy has only once put together a playoff team. D&D does not guarantee success. David Poile made shrewd moves to get there. Chiarelli is the reason the Oil turned around.

I think we may improve with a new coach who can optimize our talent, but being in the bottom tier in special teams is an ongoing problem, the PK especially need an upgrade in personnel.

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Old
03-12-2017, 03:21 PM
  #65
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I mean he's good at moving things forward when it comes to the organisation, he deserves a role in the office, just shouldn't be a head coach anymore.

I also find that the coaching seems to not be entirely in place.

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03-12-2017, 03:25 PM
  #66
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I think they have no faith or confidence in their goaltending.

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03-12-2017, 03:29 PM
  #67
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I agree with those who question whether or not Chevy is capable of making an honest assessment of what is going on with Maurice and this group of players. I look at the Oilers and how things have changed for the organization since they brought in a proven GM and coach. (and of course lucked into McDavid)

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03-12-2017, 03:31 PM
  #68
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Maurice should probably go, but Chevy should also be on the clock until he addresses the glaring needs of his teams like he should have last summer.

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03-12-2017, 03:45 PM
  #69
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I heard a quote the other day, "behind every good coach is a good goaltender" and I think that's not far from the truth. Things need to change, If not Maurice then get rid of the assistants, implement new systems that are designed for the modern game and hope that Chevy can address key areas. Shake it up. I don't think all is lost on Maurice, however, imo, the players have lost faith on this season, and we'll see an AV's like effort for the remainder of the season.

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Old
03-12-2017, 04:10 PM
  #70
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Despite what some have written here, I feel that most of the necessary pieces are in place to be a playoff level team-will h the exception of a starting goalie. However, Maurice is the one who must be held accountable for that which a head coach is responsible for:
-team discipline
-team accountability
-PP system
-PK system
-defensive zone structure
-transitionary game
Maurice failed-not even close to performing as well as other clubs that do not possess the talent that our roster has. Yes, goaltending has also struggled a lot this year and that is on Chevy. However, almost everything outside of goaltending has been on Maurice. His systems and strategies reflect his career winning percentage. Some else wrote earlier that you cannot expect a Thorburn type player to become a perennial 20 goal scorer and this thought is also reflective of coaches. Maurice has performed here as he always has performed throughout his entire career.
If the Jets want a talented coach to tak us to the playoffs they will need to obtain one-Maurice will not change. He is a great person and career mediocre coach. Our talent deserves better.

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Old
03-12-2017, 04:27 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flair Hay View Post
I truly believe that Maurice is a good coach with certain weaknesses like the majority. To me, he did well with the team the one year Chevy actually gave him a good bottom six. But the message was a lot fresher then too. I get that. But it was a top 5 5v5 team.

I think he gets way too much flack on here though. In a league where the smallest advantages become huge, he's playing with a super talented team where 3/4 of the good pieces are under 23. Talented but inconsistent and mentally fragile. And we already have one guy wearing an A who fits that description as well..

I can't fight every criticism against him and wouldn't. But most of it really does seem to be reactionary, elementary stuff.

Maurice did fine with in game adjustments when we had a team with three good lines. Young players can have a positive impact overall, but they are liabilities in key moments in games. This is a reality that faces our team every time an opponent is a seasoned playoff team.

To me biggest problem with Mo is wanting a top six and bottom six instead of a top nine.

TLDR: Chevy needs to give Maurice more to work with or else the next .500 coach we hire is doomed as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flair Hay View Post
Plenty of so so coaches have taken really good teams far in the playoffs. Including Maurice. He was given a .500 roster this year with a few obstacles and that's around where we are.
Good to get some balance when the stock market is crashing and everyone is selling . I tend to agree that I think PMo is a decent coach with flaws and Chevy totally ****ed up by handing him a flawed net and then not reacting to the crisis all year. HUGE BLOOD IS ON CHEVY's hands. That being said it seems like Paul has hit a wall and the team has tuned him out. I think a new voice is needed before we lose another season.

Some things conspired against us this past season like injuries but even worse the self inflicted type but if you would have been told at the beginning of the year that Trouba would emerge as our #1 D man....Morrissey would have a great year as a top 4 D man....Ehlers would challenge for 60 points....Scheifele would Finnish top 10 in scoring...and our 18 year old rookie would be close to a PPG player and be in the hunt for the Maurice Richard Trophy I think one would have been disappointed with finishing in the bottom 8 teams yet again.

There is a distinct chance the room has tuned out Paul now but I guess we will find out next year or the year after that.....or that.

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Old
03-12-2017, 05:45 PM
  #72
surixon
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I also think this notion that the players don't care and have turned him out is a new phenomenon based on this past stretch. Prior to that while they lost a lot this year they generally looked like they cared and where done in by the one or two big errors. I actually think that most.ofnthe room respect Maurice and does play hard for him or I think they did prior to this last week or so. Now I have no idea what the pulse of the to is.

Also I still can't fathom how bad our goalies have played this year. Given Helle's pedigree I really expected far better. Hutch also collapsed in spectacular fashion. I dunno what the solution is to this problem.

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Old
03-12-2017, 06:37 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by DougieSmail View Post
Maurice should probably go, but Chevy should also be on the clock until he addresses the glaring needs of his teams like he should have last summer.
A section of the Jets fan base is disenchanted with the coaching of Paul Maurice, his assistant coaches, and the 5 years plus Chevy's draft and groom agenda. Maurice like Claude Noel has taken the Jets as far as he can and Chevy must now hire another head coach. Chevy may have already decided that Maurice needs to go, but he will keep Maurice as a lame duck coach until season's end. It's during the off season that fired head coaches are plentiful. Candidates on the hot seat are Lindy Ruff, Willie Desjardins, Dan Bylsma. Currently unemployed coaches are Hitchcock, Gerald Gallant, Michel Therrien. Assistant coaches looking for a promtion are Kirk Muller, Dave Cameron, Marc Crawford. Chevy has a good selection to choose from.

In my viewpoint, Chevy should also be fired, but he's a good obedient lapdog of co-owner Mark Chipman.

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03-12-2017, 06:56 PM
  #74
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Six years post-Atlanta Thrashers and we still have Toby Engstrom, Mark Stuart, Chris Thorburn, Dustin Buff, Blake Wheeler and Bryan Little. Pav doesn't count because he'll be a UFA at season's end. That's six ex-Thrashers who are standing in the way of the Jets 2 having a distinct identify.

The Buff's 5 year extension was a BIG mistake, but the fan outcry if he wasn't re-signed was too much for Chipman to ignore. As it was before his "contract" year, Buff is a lazy second defensive pairing defenceman who now rarely takes risks offensively which was what endeared him to Jets fans and not the "stay-at-home" mistake prone blueliner that he is.

A few years back, management unsuccessfuly tried to convert him into a right winger (his play at that forward position was a major factor in the Blackhawks' first modern day Stanley Cup win). In my workplace, if an employee didn't do as he was told, he would be given the pink slip, however in Buff's case, either Maurice or Chevy or both feared Big Buff, they ended their Buff as a forward directive and eventually re-signed the Big Guy to a 5-year, $7M average annual budget killing contract in line with "Diane" Phanoef's and Phil Kessel's albatross contracts. Chevy will have to eat a good chunk of Buff's remaining contract in order to entice another team to take him on.

Blake Wheeler and Big Buff seemed to be at odds with each other. Chevy should have picked Mark Scheif to be the captain. In the off-season, trade Wheels, Little and Buff, don't re-sign the often injured Toby guy and buy out Stuart and Thorborn.

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03-12-2017, 07:00 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by gbill2004 View Post
The real question is whether Chevy recognizes these issues in PoMo's systems. Is Chevy qualified to see these problems?
Both Chevy and Canadiens' GM Marc Bergevin are disciples of Stan the Brain Bowman so they are qualified GMs. Chevy's gut feelings tell him not to extend Paul Maurice for another 2 to 3-year term. Maurice should consider his family and how he's been away from them for the past 4 years and he should make it clear to Chevy that he will move on careerwise.

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