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Saros > Rinne?

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Old
03-14-2017, 08:51 AM
  #26
deanwormer
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league avg. Sv % is .913 - anyone care to guess what Rinne's is (or was, going into last night)? .915

league avg. GAA is 2.60 - anyone care to guess Rinne's? 2.55

whatever last night changed in the exact numbers, he's basically league average statistically.

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03-14-2017, 10:03 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
Well I tend to be in the middle, our defense needs some work, but he needs to be stopping more pucks as well. Good shots like Liane's goal lastnight are going to happen, big rebounds out in front like on the goal that got waived off shouldn't be.
I'm not sure why people believe a goalie should be able to have a puck shot hard off the pad not rebound. If someone shoots low and hard off the pad, a rebound is going to happen, I don't care who you are. The goalie has to hope that either there's nobody in front of the net, or they're engaged with a defender so they can have time to get to the puck and cover it.

The problem with that goal wasn't Rinne's rebound. It was that Subban let that guy drift all alone over there.

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03-14-2017, 10:13 AM
  #28
Vali Maki Sushi
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Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post
I'm not sure why people believe a goalie should be able to have a puck shot hard off the pad not rebound. If someone shoots low and hard off the pad, a rebound is going to happen, I don't care who you are. The goalie has to hope that either there's nobody in front of the net, or they're engaged with a defender so they can have time to get to the puck and cover it.

The problem with that goal wasn't Rinne's rebound. It was that Subban let that guy drift all alone over there.
Rinne was the best goalie in the league in freezing rebounds, nearly freezing 40% of every initial shot he faced since he's entered the league. Other elites in that category like Bishop, Holtby, etc. don't even freeze 35% of the shots the face. This season Rinne's puck frozen percentage is below 35% and closer to 30%, which is why the fans have been annoyed because they are used to Rinne freezing a lot of pucks.

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03-14-2017, 11:01 AM
  #29
Mortiest Morty
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
league avg. Sv % is .913 - anyone care to guess what Rinne's is (or was, going into last night)? .915

league avg. GAA is 2.60 - anyone care to guess Rinne's? 2.55

whatever last night changed in the exact numbers, he's basically league average statistically.
That's why I said starter, there are at LEAST 15 starters that are clearly better than Rinne. There is no debate to be had on that subject. And I'm not necessarily talking purely statistically. Rinne faces some of the easiest shot quality in the league and very nearly the fewest scoring chances and High Danger shots/chances, that has to be factored in. If we include the high end backups around the league I'd put the number of superior tenders nearing at least 30.

Why do people continue to defend him? You watch him play, he can't track the puck, fights it off like a punch drunk boxer, over commits every single time there is any puck movement and just generally looks absolutely lost in net. I love him as a person, he was once a very good hockey player. But now he's awful, period. Is he the Preds only problem? Of course not. Is he the Preds biggest problem? Absolutely.


Last edited by Mortiest Morty: 03-14-2017 at 11:18 AM.
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Old
03-14-2017, 11:15 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post
I'm not sure why people believe a goalie should be able to have a puck shot hard off the pad not rebound. If someone shoots low and hard off the pad, a rebound is going to happen, I don't care who you are. The goalie has to hope that either there's nobody in front of the net, or they're engaged with a defender so they can have time to get to the puck and cover it.

The problem with that goal wasn't Rinne's rebound. It was that Subban let that guy drift all alone over there.
Yes there are going to be rebounds, but part of the job of a goalie is to direct them into positions of less danger. Directing it dead to the center of the ice is on him. Players can only do so much to keep it cleared, unless of course you want us in the penalty box every time there is a hard shot and a rebound.

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Old
03-15-2017, 09:51 AM
  #31
Vali Maki Sushi
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Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
Yes there are going to be rebounds, but part of the job of a goalie is to direct them into positions of less danger. Directing it dead to the center of the ice is on him. Players can only do so much to keep it cleared, unless of course you want us in the penalty box every time there is a hard shot and a rebound.
Rinne usually does direct them to the point, it's just as of recently he's doing a poor job.

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03-15-2017, 10:01 AM
  #32
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What are Rinne's GAA and Sv% if you exclude November?

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03-15-2017, 10:08 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
What are Rinne's GAA and Sv% if you exclude November?
.902 save percentage, GAA over 2.9. If you also exclude January, you're left with some shockingly bad numbers. Save percentage well under .900, GAA well over 3.

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03-15-2017, 10:16 AM
  #34
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What about in 2017? Those are some horrid numbers.

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03-15-2017, 10:20 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
What about in 2017? Those are some horrid numbers.
I'm not going to do the math on the GAA but in January his save percentage was .933

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03-15-2017, 10:22 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
What about in 2017? Those are some horrid numbers.
Since January 1st, .913 SV %, 2.7 GAA. Still pretty bad, but not at all terrible. He had a very good January, but since Feb 1st, .897 SV %, 3.1 GAA, definitely terrible.

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03-15-2017, 10:24 AM
  #37
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What about his advanced stats?

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03-15-2017, 10:26 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
.902 save percentage, GAA over 2.9. If you also exclude January, you're left with some shockingly bad numbers. Save percentage well under .900, GAA well over 3.
Yeah and if you exclude the bad months you're left with some shockingly good numbers.

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03-15-2017, 10:30 AM
  #39
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Yeah and if you exclude the bad months you're left with some shockingly good numbers.
Sure, the overall package is **** though. So, much more bad than good. All this while the Preds are top 5 in limiting scoring chances and shot quality. Excellent.

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03-15-2017, 10:33 AM
  #40
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What about his advanced stats?
I'm not sure what kind of numbers you're looking for, but he's literally dead last in the entire league at stopping high danger shots, very far below league average in that regard.

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03-15-2017, 10:35 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
I'm not sure what kind of numbers you're looking for, but he's literally dead last in the entire league at stopping high danger shots, very far below league average in that regard.
Which is one of the reasons we struggle so much at 3 on 3 OT hockey.

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03-15-2017, 10:40 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
I'm not sure what kind of numbers you're looking for, but he's literally dead last in the entire league at stopping high danger shots, very far below league average in that regard.
Can you provide some evidence to those stats?

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03-15-2017, 10:51 AM
  #43
Mortiest Morty
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Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
Can you provide some evidence to those stats?
Corsica.hockey can, he's actually moved up to 3rd worst in the entire league it seems (Hooray for small victories), unless I looked at it wrong, I am stuck on mobile after all.

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03-15-2017, 01:43 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
Corsica.hockey can, he's actually moved up to 3rd worst in the entire league it seems (Hooray for small victories), unless I looked at it wrong, I am stuck on mobile after all.
You are correct for goalies over 1,000 minutes played.

1. Mason .756
2. Luongo .763
3. Rinne .765

Saros is at .796 in this stat, while Price leads the league at .863

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03-15-2017, 01:50 PM
  #45
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He was also 3rd worst last year, better than only Ramo and Hutchinson and he played twice as much as either of them.

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03-15-2017, 04:52 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
You are correct for goalies over 1,000 minutes played.

1. Mason .756
2. Luongo .763
3. Rinne .765

Saros is at .796 in this stat, while Price leads the league at .863
.796 and .765 is real comforting huh?

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03-15-2017, 07:39 PM
  #47
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.796 and .765 is real comforting huh?
Yeah, because a 21-year-old goalie who is starting once every 5-7 games is not a success unless he's in the top 5 goalies in the NHL.

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03-16-2017, 04:49 PM
  #48
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Wrote an article based around these two. Thought this was the best place to post it.

http://predlines.com/2017/03/16/nash...s-goalie-woes/

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03-17-2017, 02:03 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
Sure, the overall package is **** though. So, much more bad than good. All this while the Preds are top 5 in limiting scoring chances and shot quality. Excellent.
Again there was this one site that I really hope starts running again or a certain site starts posting data on it again. Last season it showed that the Preds were the best team in the league at preventing secondary high danger chances 5 on 5, but they were a bottom 10 team in preventing initial high danger chances. Also because we were the best team in preventing secondary HDCA, it doesn't mean we were automatically the best team at doing so, because you have to factor Rinne allowed a lot of initial shots in, which skews the need for a secondary chance. Rinne also froze 39% of the initial shots he faced, again eliminating the need for a secondary chance. I don't know about this season though as I can't find data, but I would assume from eye test we're allowing a lot of initial chances, but doing a great job at preventing secondary chances. Also Preds as of recently from Corsica.hockey have allowed more than 7 HDSA/60 5 on 5, while Rinne season speaking has faced 5.10 HDSA/60 5 on 5...

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03-17-2017, 02:05 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
You are correct for goalies over 1,000 minutes played.

1. Mason .756
2. Luongo .763
3. Rinne .765

Saros is at .796 in this stat, while Price leads the league at .863
I still don't think it's an excuse. Dubnyk, Lehner, and for god sakes Hutton is facing less HDSA/60 5 on 5 than both goalies, and they have a higher save percentage in the slot...

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