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CHL Class Action Part 2.5

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Old
02-17-2016, 12:26 PM
  #1
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CHL Class Action Part 2.5

Part 1 is Here

The plaintiffs' lawyers now have a website about the lawsuit. There is also a new facebook page and twitter account.

In the previous thread I posted the statement of claim for the OHL lawsuit and the statement of claim for the WHL lawsuit.

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02-18-2016, 06:55 AM
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I think asking for $9100 per year is very few and the courts likely would side with them for that but to want to be paid back money into ei/cpp there is really not a chance they courts would agree to that.

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02-18-2016, 10:14 AM
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Class action suits are still relatively new in Canada, and frequently reach resolution through a negotiated settlement.

In these three cases, however, there are so many defendants ... the CHL as an umbrella organization, the regional leagues, and the individual clubs within those regional leagues. That's a lot of folks in the room, which can make settlement talks very challenging. The multiple jurisdictions, too, are a hurdle if the goal is settlement.

One interesting item I noticed is that the plaintiffs are deducting from their claim the statutory maximum for room and board (this amount varies across jurisdictions but falls within $80-$100 per week). Makes sense to do this.

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02-18-2016, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
Class action suits are still relatively new in Canada, and frequently reach resolution through a negotiated settlement.

In these three cases, however, there are so many defendants ... the CHL as an umbrella organization, the regional leagues, and the individual clubs within those regional leagues. That's a lot of folks in the room, which can make settlement talks very challenging. The multiple jurisdictions, too, are a hurdle if the goal is settlement.

One interesting item I noticed is that the plaintiffs are deducting from their claim the statutory maximum for room and board (this amount varies across jurisdictions but falls within $80-$100 per week). Makes sense to do this.
One thing i hope the player understand is if they get the back pay for 4 years a large chunk of that will go to taxes.

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02-18-2016, 10:33 AM
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One interesting item I noticed is that the plaintiffs are deducting from their claim the statutory maximum for room and board (this amount varies across jurisdictions but falls within $80-$100 per week). Makes sense to do this.
So they're perfectly happy continuing the current practice where the billets donate a great deal of grocery money for the players?

But of course they are...

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02-19-2016, 05:10 PM
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So they're perfectly happy continuing the current practice where the billets donate a great deal of grocery money for the players?

But of course they are...
I've no idea if they are or are not "happy" with the current billet practice. But in terms of the class action suits, the players are making clear that the provision of room and board has bona fide value -- which is why provincial statutes affix maximum weekly dollar amounts for room and board. The teams pay it and the players' suits recognize that they received it. Hence, it makes sense to deduct this amount from back wages claims.

Further, the class action suits are not a surrogate for collective bargaining. These suits deal with "what was and what is" rather than "what should be." In other words, the players are acknowledging the previous receipt of room and board, and whether room and board should or should not be part of the package moving forward falls outside of these suits.

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02-19-2016, 05:55 PM
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I've no idea if they are or are not "happy" with the current billet practice. But in terms of the class action suits, the players are making clear that the provision of room and board has bona fide value -- which is why provincial statutes affix maximum weekly dollar amounts for room and board. The teams pay it and the players' suits recognize that they received it. Hence, it makes sense to deduct this amount from back wages claims.

Further, the class action suits are not a surrogate for collective bargaining. These suits deal with "what was and what is" rather than "what should be." In other words, the players are acknowledging the previous receipt of room and board, and whether room and board should or should not be part of the package moving forward falls outside of these suits.
It could be kind of sad say players get $9100 a year in Ottawa rent on the avg is $ 100 a months so 8 months $8800 plus food lets say $2000 there not going to be in any better shape.

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02-19-2016, 06:49 PM
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It could be kind of sad say players get $9100 a year in Ottawa rent on the avg is $ 100 a months so 8 months $8800 plus food lets say $2000 there not going to be in any better shape.
The statutory limit for room and board is between. $80-$100 per week, depending on the jurisdiction. The statements of claim acknowledge this, and deduct the amount from their claim for back wages. The $9100 figure (from one jurisdiction) is already adjusted to reflect the deduction of $100 per week for 25 weeks.

The suits cannot deduct more for room and board than the law permits. As the statements of claim currently sit, the classes are using the absolute legal maximum deduction for room and board, not a lower amount. This means they are claiming approximately $11,600 per player but only $9100 in back wages owed.

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02-20-2016, 08:25 AM
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The statutory limit for room and board is between. $80-$100 per week, depending on the jurisdiction. The statements of claim acknowledge this, and deduct the amount from their claim for back wages. The $9100 figure (from one jurisdiction) is already adjusted to reflect the deduction of $100 per week for 25 weeks.

The suits cannot deduct more for room and board than the law permits. As the statements of claim currently sit, the classes are using the absolute legal maximum deduction for room and board, not a lower amount. This means they are claiming approximately $11,600 per player but only $9100 in back wages owed.
Yet how much money will they really see maybe $4500 after taxes and legal fees.

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02-20-2016, 09:21 AM
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Yet how much money will they really see maybe $4500 after taxes and legal fees.
The 2016 CRA basic personal exemption is $11,474. There is a corresponding personal exemption amount for each province. In Ontario, the 2016 rate is $10,011.

In essence, these exemption amounts allow individuals with extremely low annual earnings to pay no federal and provincial income taxes.

As for the legal fees, class action suits generally operate on a contingency basis, meaning a fixed % of any settlement or court ordered payment. The amount varies but is typically 30%.

So, a member of the class who played 4 years of CHL hockey stands to gain approximately $36,000 minus the 30% legal contingency fee. That's $25,000 for 100 weeks of work (4 years x 25 weeks per year).

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02-20-2016, 09:26 AM
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The 2016 CRA basic personal exemption is $11,474. There is a corresponding personal exemption amount for each province. In Ontario, the 2016 rate is $10,011.

In essence, these exemption amounts allow individuals with extremely low annual earnings to pay no federal and provincial income taxes.

As for the legal fees, class action suits generally operate on a contingency basis, meaning a fixed % of any settlement or court ordered payment. The amount varies but is typically 30%.

So, a member of the class who played 4 years of CHL hockey stands to gain approximately $36,000 minus the 30% legal contingency fee. That's $25,000 for 100 weeks of work (4 years x 25 weeks per year).
They still pay into cpp and ei which would be about $100 per pay cheque.

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02-20-2016, 10:46 AM
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They still pay into cpp and ei which would be about $100 per pay cheque.
The CPP has an exemption for the first $3500 of annual income -- again, this is to ensure that those who are already dirt poor do not suffer even more.

After the first $3500 of annual earnings, the CPP rate is 4.95%.

As for EI, the employee contribution rate is 1.88% up to a maximum of $955.04 per year. The employer contributes an aditional 2.63%, but this is irrelevant to the class action suits.

So, a hypothetical 4-year CHL player will pay 4.95% of his $9100/year salary into CPP ($450) and an additional 1.88% into EI ($171).

Put another way, $621 per year, or about $24 per weekly pay cheque for 25 weeks. That's less than 7%.

A very, very small price to pay when one is allegedly owed over 36k for 4 years of employment. Would I pay $2500 to collect $36,000 owed to me? In a heartbeat!

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02-21-2016, 01:40 PM
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The CPP has an exemption for the first $3500 of annual income -- again, this is to ensure that those who are already dirt poor do not suffer even more.

After the first $3500 of annual earnings, the CPP rate is 4.95%.

As for EI, the employee contribution rate is 1.88% up to a maximum of $955.04 per year. The employer contributes an aditional 2.63%, but this is irrelevant to the class action suits.

So, a hypothetical 4-year CHL player will pay 4.95% of his $9100/year salary into CPP ($450) and an additional 1.88% into EI ($171).

Put another way, $621 per year, or about $24 per weekly pay cheque for 25 weeks. That's less than 7%.

A very, very small price to pay when one is allegedly owed over 36k for 4 years of employment. Would I pay $2500 to collect $36,000 owed to me? In a heartbeat!
Also add the health premium which at the most is $500 per year but with that said there biggest issue is this idea they should be able to get ei/cpp money back no Canadian can so why should they be able to.

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02-21-2016, 02:44 PM
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Also add the health premium which at the most is $500 per year but with that said there biggest issue is this idea they should be able to get ei/cpp money back no Canadian can so why should they be able to.
The Ontario Health premium (doesn't exist in the other provinces) is not a separate line item and is subsumed within the provincial portion of CIT. It's a deduction "at source," which means the employer remitts it, not the employee.

What exactly do you mean when you write that the players want EI/CPP money back? If the teams didn't pay the players a salary, there's no EI or CPP contributions to "get back." Am I missing something?

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02-22-2016, 08:43 AM
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The problem I see with the $9,000 per year is that it in no way takes into account schooling paid for a large percentage of the graduated players.

How is it fair that some players will receive $36K in "back wages" PLUS $10-15K per year for university? Or does the suit propose removing those expenses from the back pay, in which case some players will owe the league money?

It's unfortunate that some lawyers looking to make a **** ton of money off the backs of the same people they profess to want to protect may end up costing players. And let's not pretend that these lawyers are doing this for the good of humanity. Unless that's the pet name they have for their wallets.

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02-22-2016, 09:20 AM
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The problem I see with the $9,000 per year is that it in no way takes into account schooling paid for a large percentage of the graduated players.

How is it fair that some players will receive $36K in "back wages" PLUS $10-15K per year for university? Or does the suit propose removing those expenses from the back pay, in which case some players will owe the league money?

It's unfortunate that some lawyers looking to make a **** ton of money off the backs of the same people they profess to want to protect may end up costing players. And let's not pretend that these lawyers are doing this for the good of humanity. Unless that's the pet name they have for their wallets.
The players will end up better off because of this lawsuit. It will end up settling out of court and the settlement will be to the players' benefit.

The CHL's own greed is what got them into this position in the first place.

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02-22-2016, 10:08 AM
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The players will end up better off because of this lawsuit. It will end up settling out of court and the settlement will be to the players' benefit.

The CHL's own greed is what got them into this position in the first place.
That's not a guarantee. How will the players benefit, if they lose a lot of the perks they currently have? Most teams will not be paying them and providing things like scholarships, training, etc. on top of paying them.

So yes, the lawyers will benefit. Some past players may benefit because they will get back pay in addition to the schooling they've received. Current and future players? Iffy.

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02-22-2016, 11:36 AM
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That's not a guarantee. How will the players benefit, if they lose a lot of the perks they currently have? Most teams will not be paying them and providing things like scholarships, training, etc. on top of paying them.

So yes, the lawyers will benefit. Some past players may benefit because they will get back pay in addition to the schooling they've received. Current and future players? Iffy.
They will probably just get more compensation on top of what they are already getting. I doubt they will lose perks that they are currently getting because the teams would have significantly more trouble recruiting if they took them away.

As far as the lawyers benefiting - i'm not sure what you would prefer. For them to work for free? By your logic, the lawyers that the CHL has hired are also benefiting from defending the lawsuit.

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02-22-2016, 11:47 AM
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They will probably just get more compensation on top of what they are already getting. I doubt they will lose perks that they are currently getting because the teams would have significantly more trouble recruiting if they took them away.
If that's the case, kiss a bunch of franchises goodbye. Teams that are barely breaking even won't be able to pay players $9K per year on top of what they already do.

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As far as the lawyers benefiting - i'm not sure what you would prefer. For them to work for free? By your logic, the lawyers that the CHL has hired are also benefiting from defending the lawsuit.
The lawyers who are filing the class action suit are in the drivers' seat, aren't they? I don't see the CHL setting up websites and other social media sites to register. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose, but a bit of time. So yeah, if they truly believe they're doing this for the good of the players, work for a significantly reduced rate. Fat chan$e.

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02-22-2016, 11:50 AM
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players deserve to be fairly compensated for their work....

and if that means teams like Flint get flushed down the toilet, then all the better.

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02-22-2016, 11:58 AM
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If that's the case, kiss a bunch of franchises goodbye. Teams that are barely breaking even won't be able to pay players $9K per year on top of what they already do.



The lawyers who are filing the class action suit are in the drivers' seat, aren't they? I don't see the CHL setting up websites and other social media sites to register. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose, but a bit of time. So yeah, if they truly believe they're doing this for the good of the players, work for a significantly reduced rate. Fat chan$e.
Who really cares if the plaintiffs lawyers have a website. That is pretty common for class action lawsuits. As far as the lawyers fees, they have to be approved by the court as part of any settlement. You're also completely mistaken that plaintiff-side counsel in a class action have "nothing to lose" - in fact the opposite is true...there is typically a lot of risk.

As far as the teams who are barely breaking even and couldn't possibly afford to give players any more than they currently do, I'd love to see how much is going to the salaries within the organization. That aside, I'm sure that the additional costs could be offset by minor increases in ticket prices and league wide revenue sharing.

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02-22-2016, 12:26 PM
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players deserve to be fairly compensated for their work....

and if that means teams like Flint get flushed down the toilet, then all the better.
Flint is hardly alone. Teams like Owen Sound, Sarnia, Saginaw, Kingston, Hamilton, Sudbury, etc. where they don't have 5,000+ attendance per game will suffer. I suspect that most of those teams aren't making money hand over fist.

I don't have an issue with being fairly compensated, but if we're talking about paying them plus providing off season training, room and board, all the other perks, and scholarships on top of that, we're now in the neighbourhood of $30K or more per year.

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02-22-2016, 12:53 PM
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25 players per team at a cost of $9100 each means $227,500 per team.

Assuming a team has 34 home dates (excluding pre-season and playoffs), they need $6691/game to pay for this.

Assuming teams will seek new revenue streams to cover this cost, a modest $2 per ticket surcharge would do the trick if the team averaged 3350 in attendance.

Obviously, the small number of teams drawing much more than this could lower the ticket surcharge -- London could generate the required funds with a 0.75 cent surcharge per ticket. I doubt if there is a single concession stand item available for just 0.75 cents -- not a cup of coffee or a package of gum. But of course, teams drawing smaller crowds, such as Peterborough, would likely require a $3 per ticket surcharge. Anyone know the cost of a hot dog at the Memorial Centre on Petes game night? It's more than $3.

The cost is not really that high.

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02-22-2016, 03:21 PM
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Who really cares if the plaintiffs lawyers have a website. That is pretty common for class action lawsuits. As far as the lawyers fees, they have to be approved by the court as part of any settlement. You're also completely mistaken that plaintiff-side counsel in a class action have "nothing to lose" - in fact the opposite is true...there is typically a lot of risk.

As far as the teams who are barely breaking even and couldn't possibly afford to give players any more than they currently do, I'd love to see how much is going to the salaries within the organization. That aside, I'm sure that the additional costs could be offset by minor increases in ticket prices and league wide revenue sharing.
I think they would go to a 80-84 game schedule to try and make some money back.

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02-22-2016, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
25 players per team at a cost of $9100 each means $227,500 per team.

Assuming a team has 34 home dates (excluding pre-season and playoffs), they need $6691/game to pay for this.

Assuming teams will seek new revenue streams to cover this cost, a modest $2 per ticket surcharge would do the trick if the team averaged 3350 in attendance.

Obviously, the small number of teams drawing much more than this could lower the ticket surcharge -- London could generate the required funds with a 0.75 cent surcharge per ticket. I doubt if there is a single concession stand item available for just 0.75 cents -- not a cup of coffee or a package of gum. But of course, teams drawing smaller crowds, such as Peterborough, would likely require a $3 per ticket surcharge. Anyone know the cost of a hot dog at the Memorial Centre on Petes game night? It's more than $3.

The cost is not really that high.
If they were to go with the $9100 a year i don't think that would be to hard go with a longer schedule is one thing they could do but i think the fear is are there going to ask for more going into each year and if you read some comments online there are some that think it should be equal to Ahl salarys.

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