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CHL Class Action Part 2.5

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Old
03-04-2016, 11:37 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
ECHL can afford such a weekly cap and education package without the benefit of TV revenues especially from International events or a cash generator like the Memorial Cup, Subway series, Team Orr vs Team Cherry, etc. NHL developmental monies(Entry Draft, etc)
They're also not paying for room and board for players (other than road trips, which is understandable), and the "education package" may be comparable during the season and the time the player is playing for them, but there is no residual scholarship paid by the team - two big items on a balance sheet.

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03-04-2016, 01:05 PM
  #77
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They're also not paying for room and board for players (other than road trips, which is understandable), and the "education package" may be comparable during the season and the time the player is playing for them, but there is no residual scholarship paid by the team - two big items on a balance sheet.
ECHL players have their residence paid for/ provided by the teams:

"Housing and health insurance are provided by the teams. Married players get their own apartment while single players share. Some meals are provided by the teams, and players are also paid a daily meal allowance while on the road. (The 2015-16 road trip “per diem” allowance is $40 per day, up from $39 last season.)"

It's nice to see married players provided for in this way.

http://thesinbin.net/echl-news-you-c...nges-and-more/

My understanding is that very, very few players are out of pocket one red cent (or silver nickle) for their 3 square meals per day. Teams either provide the food directly or sponsors provide it. And obviously, the $40 per diem helps.

As for the education funding, ECHL players are grown men, some with wives and children, and would find taking more than 2 post-secondary courses at a time very difficult. On the plus side, the CIS allows former ECHL professionals to play, and Athletic Funding from Canadian universities (Athletic Financial Awards) typically covers a minimum of 70% of the tuition, compulsory fees and textbook costs. Having said this, very few ECHL players pursue post-secondary study while playing, as is also the case in the CHL

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03-04-2016, 01:29 PM
  #78
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Just feel like I need to chime on one minor point.

Québec and post high-school.

JAN to SEP : Sooner they can start university is at their "19 years old season".
OCT to DEC : Sonner they can start university is at their overage season.

From what little I know about that, players don't have a full-course Schedule. Meaning they probably don't finish Cegep in 4 semesters.

I can't think of a Q team with no Cegep in the surrounding area.

Hence, University is mostly an overager concern.

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03-04-2016, 03:09 PM
  #79
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1963 - 1965 NHL Amateur Drafts

Foundation posts coming up.

The first three NHL Amateur Drafts, 1963 - 1965 were very different from the present day NHL Entry Draft. Basically, eligible players were those of age that had not signed C-forms. Canada wide in name only.

1963 was an Ontario Draft

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...3_amateur.html

1964 included a few Quebec players

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...4_amateur.html

Basically from two districts in the east end of Montreal that had a history of standing-up to the Canadiens and discouraging the young players from signing C-forms. Lac Mégantic - train derailment fame, at that time was closer to the Maine/New Hampshire border.

1965 very few picks, Montreal Rangers Jr. were an east end regional team as opposed to a district team. Pierre Bouchard = Butch Bouchard's son.Extended beyond Ontario and Québec.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...5_amateur.html

The first three NHL Amateur Drafts reflected where you had pockets of anti C-Form sentiments.

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03-04-2016, 03:22 PM
  #80
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Cegep

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Just feel like I need to chime on one minor point.

Québec and post high-school.

JAN to SEP : Sooner they can start university is at their "19 years old season".
OCT to DEC : Sonner they can start university is at their overage season.

From what little I know about that, players don't have a full-course Schedule. Meaning they probably don't finish Cegep in 4 semesters.

I can't think of a Q team with no Cegep in the surrounding area.

Hence, University is mostly an overager concern.
List of Québec CEGEPs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eges_in_Quebec

Québec based teams are usually close to at least two CEGEPs. Baie Comeau may be the exception with one. All CEGEP students are eligible for the summer semester as well. Portability is not a problem.

University - would not view it as an overager concern. More of a "mature" student, start in the second term after making a career decision post September training camp or no European offers.

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03-06-2016, 06:35 PM
  #81
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1966 - 1968 Amateur Drafts

Continuing with the early NHL Amateur Drafts.

1966 NHL Amateur Draft. Short but expanded touching the western provinces. Key aspect is that all four picks of the perennial NHL doormats Boston and New York, made the NHL and spent significant time in the NHL

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...6_amateur.html

1967 NHL Amateur Draft. Expansion team participated. Greater distribution across Canada, Slight interest in Sr. and NCAA players.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...7_amateur.html

1968 NHL Amateur Draft. Last of the short drafts. Still you see that Canadian régions and the NCAA had better representation. Also you see the first example of Sam Pollock working the draft to his advantage.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...8_amateur.html

Next the Metropolitain Montréal Junior Hockey league.

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03-06-2016, 07:07 PM
  #82
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Metropolitan Montreal Junior Hockey League 1954-55 to 1968-69

One of the two Quebec junior leagues that replaced the disbanded Québec Junior Hockey League in 1954. Operated from the 1954-55 season thru the 1968-69 season.

Link to a brief history:

http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/Metr..._Junior_League

Link to season by season standings and playoff results:

http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/List...tMtlHL_Seasons

The Montreal Canadiens had sponsorship relationsships with 3 or 4 teams each season,.The standards were Verdun, NDG, Lachine plus a 4th, at times a 5th team. Plus they operated the Junior Canadiens stradling the Québec- Ontario border and stradling junior and senior hockey. More to follow on this.

The Forum party line was that their sponsorship relation grew junior hockey. Reality was that it gave the Canadiens upwards of three residency slots per team per year while saving on billeting and educational situations.

While the history of the league speaks about players like Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Yvan Cournoyer, Carol Vadnais and others who made the Canadiens, The better stories are about players like Jean Ratelle, Rod Gilbert, Bernie Parent and others who slipped away.

Soon the Quebec Provincial Junior League.

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03-06-2016, 08:09 PM
  #83
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C58, if you have some time would you please write a few lines about the Ratelles, Gilberts, Parents -- the "ones who got away." In particular, I'm curious about players who had not signed C-cards and did not play for sponsored clubs. Obviously, they could not avoid the NHL draft once it was instituted (likely didn't want to avoid it, either), but were these players afforded any genuine "developmental freedom" while junior age? Were teams such as Montreal East, Rosemount and Lac Megantic Jr. B "independent"/ unsponsored?

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03-06-2016, 09:19 PM
  #84
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Will Do

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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
C58, if you have some time would you please write a few lines about the Ratelles, Gilberts, Parents -- the "ones who got away." In particular, I'm curious about players who had not signed C-cards and did not play for sponsored clubs. Obviously, they could not avoid the NHL draft once it was instituted (likely didn't want to avoid it, either), but were these players afforded any genuine "developmental freedom" while junior age? Were teams such as Montreal East, Rosemount and Lac Megantic Jr. B "independent"/ unsponsored?
Will do but need your help comparing the OHA with what was happening in Québec.

1961-62 season The OHA expanded added the Junior Canadiens plus a number of GTA teams. This continued thre the 1962-63 season with a few adjustments, namely Oshawa entered the OHA. League was divided into the Metro and Provincial Divisions.

1961-62 OHA
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...a19551962.html

1962-63 OHA
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...a19551963.html

Quebec had a similar GMA area league and Provincial League(s) set-up but not Under the same umbrella.

First impression is that the Leafs tried to gain residency advantages.
Lac Mégantic was independent, too remote for sponsorship. Montréal East/Hochelaga/Maisonneuve/Roussin were sponsored by the Guelph Biltmores providing a Rangers link. Rosemount was independent although abutting on Hochelaga/Maisonneuve there were ties to the Rangers as well as the bruins but the MMJHL franchise was owned mainly by Armand mondou. Also Palestre National played out of the Paul Sauve Arena in Rosemount having built the complex, Previously Palestre National was linked to the Canadiens into the mid fifties but that fell apart when the old Québec Junior League folded.

Interestingly the founder and head of Comite des jeunes de Rosemont which produced all the Rosemont draft picks was named a Canadiens scout in 1960. likewise Claude Mouton, Canadiens PA announcer headed the hockey association in eastern Rosemount.

Will get to the "ones that got away" shortly.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 03-06-2016 at 10:02 PM.
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Old
03-06-2016, 09:46 PM
  #85
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I will provide information on the Ontario situation when time allows -- the dominant role played by the OHA within the CAHA and, until breaking away from them, the AUCC, needs to be fully outlined before a meaningful look at the hockey structure in the province can be undertaken.

This will take me a bit of time ...

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03-06-2016, 09:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
This will take me a bit of time ...
Fair enough Badger...just dont be billing us for any overly expensive lunches.... trips to
Kingston & Niagara Falls.... Toronto... HHOF... photocopying.... book purchases n' whatnot....

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03-07-2016, 05:26 PM
  #87
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Other Pre QMJHL Quebec Leagues

Completing our quick review of Quebec junior hockey pre QMJHL era.

The link to the 1969 Memorial Cup history below best illustrates the situation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Memorial_Cup

Check the playoff chart.

Thru the 1960s and a bit beyond, the quality of junior hockey leagues in Canada was determined by Memorial Cup eligibility. Was the league champion eligible to continue on to the Mémorial Cup playoffs?

In the province of Quebec, the MMJHL champions were allowed to continue to the Memorial Cup playoffs as were the LHJP champions and the LHJSLS champions.

The LHJP (Ligue hockey junior provinciale) was a central Quebec ligue, somewhat fluid in terms of franchises and league name. Core teams tended to be in Drummondville, Victoriaville, Shawinigan, Trois Rivieres, Quebec City with some participation from towns like Thetford Mines, Sherbrooke, etc. Some NHL sponsorship from the Canadiens, Bruins, Rangers, partials from the Hawks and Red Wings. central Québec régions were very expansive.

The LHJSLS(Ligue hockey Sagueney Lac St.Jean). Regional league, excellent caliber based around Chicoutimi and the perimeter arond Lac St.Jean. Some rare partial sponsorship.

Also there were some accommodations or C.A.H.A quirks. The Montreal Junior Canadiens were allowed to compete in the OHA. Québec junior teams in the Ottawa District were allowed to play in eastern Ontario Leagues that were Memorial Cup eligible. North western teams played locally in non Memorial Cup eligible leagues either in Québec or joint Ontario / Quebec leagues.

Keeping things simple the leagues were run on shoestring budgets. NHL sponsorship had a unique cost benefit relationship. Costs might be covered but the control over residency slots and players were lost. So the Bruins would bring in a Jean Pronovost or a Gilles Marotte to play locally but they would also pull them out if slots became available in Niagara Falls in the OHA. Likewise the Canadiens in Thetford Mines.

Both leagues had minimum billeting expenses, especially in the LHSLS. Conversely the educational expenses were even lower.

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03-07-2016, 10:45 PM
  #88
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Canadiens1958, sorry if this went over my head reading your posts...but was going on re jr hockey east of QC? Did it exist? Maybe that's for another stream of posts and not a simple answer?

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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
I will provide information on the Ontario situation when time allows -- the dominant role played by the OHA within the CAHA and, until breaking away from them, the AUCC, needs to be fully outlined before a meaningful look at the hockey structure in the province can be undertaken.

This will take me a bit of time ...
That's fine, we have a lot of it.

There are a small handful of us continually posting in this thread and we're a stubborn group. Absent new legal developments that will fuel further discussion, I'm pretty sure you know what our opinions are on the issues that have been discussed (or can guess what they'd be on those that haven't).

Honestly, you and Canadiens1958 should just use this thread to further educate us on 'business of junior hockey' - it's topical as background to the thread subject and this is probably a convenient place to put it.

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03-07-2016, 11:29 PM
  #89
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Maritimes

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Canadiens1958, sorry if this went over my head reading your posts...but was going on re jr hockey east of QC? Did it exist? Maybe that's for another stream of posts and not a simple answer?
If you click on the link provided to the 1969 Memorial Cup playdowns you will see mention of the MarJHL = Maritime Junior Hockey League. Fredericton Canadiens were the 1969 league champions playing in the Mémorial Cup playdowns.

The league or early versions existed for generations. Even had some NHL sponsorship but the NHL teams would regularly remove the talented prospects for development, mainly in the OHA. Earlier Montreal moved Danny Grant from the league to Peterborough. Detroit moved Lowell MacDonald to Hamilton in the OHA, Toronto moved Al McNeill and Parket MacDonald to their OHA junior teams, just some examples. Even independent junior teams used their residency slots to bring in Maritime players. 1969 St. Jerome in the MMJHL brought in Kevin Morrison from the Maritimes. Ironically Sorel of the MMJHL in 1969 brought in Dave Schultz from Saskatchewan under similar circumstance mid season. Morrison gave Schultz a beating in a brawl. Small world.

Takeaway from all of this is that regrdless of the abuses by the NHL teams or bad local ownership, the local junior teams across Canada, Memorial Cup eligible, have survived, the fan base has remained loyal and the players have developed overall although there have been many instances of under development.

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03-09-2016, 09:31 PM
  #90
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Networking

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C58, if you have some time would you please write a few lines about the Ratelles, Gilberts, Parents -- the "ones who got away." In particular, I'm curious about players who had not signed C-cards and did not play for sponsored clubs. Obviously, they could not avoid the NHL draft once it was instituted (likely didn't want to avoid it, either), but were these players afforded any genuine "developmental freedom" while junior age? Were teams such as Montreal East, Rosemount and Lac Megantic Jr. B "independent"/ unsponsored?
Without getting into all the details, crossing the t's and dotting the i's, C-Forms were a post WWII phenomena.

One of the interesting consequences of WWII in Canada was that as the war continued past 1939, more and more physically able males upon reaching the age of 18 volunteered or were conscripted for Canadian military service. This quickly decimated the minor pro, Senior, Intermediate and Junior teams and leagues since such players could not, as a rule, obtain military service exemptions. Teams and leagues folded. By product was that post military age coaches were left without teams to coach. Arenas and outdoor rinks saw rentals and usage plummet.

Solution was get the coaches involved with youth hockey, pre 18 year olds down to 10 year olds. Quality coaches, - Marty Barry, Wilf Cude, Sylvio Mantha and many other old pros coached youngsters. Georges Mantha was hired by the City of Montréal Park and Recreation to oversee outdoor rinks. The new Pee Wee category was defined. Teams organized, leagues formed. Some of this was out of social necessity. Women(mothers) entered the work force, mainly in munitions and some one had to take care of the youngsters between school and supper. Community centers grew like mushrooms and in winter youngster played organized hockey. Elementary schools - grades six and seven, went beyond house league with schools forming rep teams, origins of minor and major Pee Wee.Arenas were made available for War Time fundraising, often mini games between youth teams were held. Forum and MLG quickly recognized the potential and the NHL cut a deal with the CAHA in 1945 which lead to C-forms.

Not everyone was happy, especially the public schools funded by tax dollars. On the other hand favoured organizations, strategically positioned to benefit from NHL sponsorship dollars hopped on the gravy train.

Situation after WWII was that you had a fragmented youth hockey structure in a mobile society where returning servicemen and women had developed contacts and loyalties across Canada. Combined with religious and athletic networks that had existed previously the the NHL was going to be challenged especially when the youngsters of parents who were in a position to access an alternative network.

Three main networks existed .

The old Brotherhood/New Brotherhood.

English teaching Catholic Brothers connected one way or another to St. Mike's and teaching high school or elementary school doubling as hockey coaches/scouts regualarly sent or referred quality prospects to St. Mike's and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Fleming Mackell, Dave Keon and others left Québec for St. Mike's usually after bidding wars.

French teaching Catholic Brothers. They were trilingual. French, English, Latin. fair number had played junior or Québec Senior or Semi Pro hockey. Excellent coaches as well. Very protective of their charges, educated, knew how to play the PR game. Not to be crossed. The key French Montreal newspaper the Montréal-Matin was a Union Nationale/Maurice Duplessis organ. The Québec Aces were owned by Union Nationale insiders when they challenged the Canadiens over Jean Beliveau.

The old Teammates Network

Players from allover Canada had played as teammates in various leagues and loyalties were strong. Eddie Bush who had played in most NA leagues including the NHL and Sherbrooke in the QSHL usually received the benefit of having a few Quebec juniors sent his way via former teammates who were involved with youth hockey, parents of young hockey players etc. One phone call, a few words about talent from a trusted source, details about what the Canadiens were offering and the bidding would start.

The Community Centers

English community centers were sponsored by service groups Kinsmen, Lions, etc with the McConnell Foundation (J. W. McConnell, owner / Publisher of the Montreal Star, industrialist, host and guest to Royalty, arguably Canada's richest man) funding many activities from the background. Staff of community centers tended to be well educated and connected.

French community centers inevitably were part of the local Catholic parish, similarly connected and backed.

Making the phone call to solicit competing offers was easy.

Short answer without naming many names. Rod Gilbert and Jean Ratelle played for Acadamie Roussin in Montréal East, French Catholic private school that briefly operated a MMJHL team, Montreal East minor hockey featured some old pros, a few with a bit of NHL experience. Both went to Guelph Biltmores, coached by Eddie Bush.

Bernie Parent, from Rosemount in the MMJHL went to Niagara Falls coached by Hap Emms another pro hockey nomad. Friends with a few hockey coaches in the district.

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03-21-2016, 11:14 PM
  #91
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Although not directly tied to the lawsuits, there has been some stuff related to the CHL recently that I thought was worth bringing (leaving aside the substance of the lawsuits, the degree to which the CHL structure 'changes form' obviously would affect whatever legal obligations they might have).

There has been some discussion about raising the draft age from 18 to 19. Leaving aside the practical problems that might bring, there has also been accompanying discussion from Hockey Canada about creating a "Super Midget League" - the stated objective was to keep 16 year olds out of junior hockey (even though relatively few players on each team are 16 year olds). I'm not sure who will be paying for the players in this Super Midget League (are parents picking up an extra year of minor hockey or will it be on Hockey Canada's dime).

In any event, here was what Elliotte Friedman wrote a couple of weeks back:

Quote:
Months after returning to the NHL from an executive stint with the Buffalo Sabres, Pat LaFontaine quietly reached out to several of North America’s top amateur and junior leagues with a question: “What can we do to make our developmental model better?”

“We were told, ‘No idea is a bad idea,’” one representative said, declining to comment on the record. “If we stay quiet, we’re not going to improve things.”

LaFontaine, the’s NHL Vice-President of Development and Community Affairs, put together several meetings that involved the league, the Players’ Association, Hockey Canada, USA Hockey, the Canadian Hockey League, the United States Hockey League and the NCAA. It was held last spring, and another “NHL Development Summit” is scheduled for early May.

Reached Saturday, LaFontaine didn’t want to say too much. He echoed a quote he gave to ESPN.com’s Joe McDonald, that “discussions remain preliminary, and we are looking at everything in an attempt to improve how we develop players.” He was also concerned about speaking out of turn. Even though he’s passionate about this project, he knows nothing will happen without approval from higher up the food chain.

Last month, Hockey Canada President & CEO Tom Renney told NewsKamloops reporter Gregg Drinnan that, in an effort to get 16-year-olds out of junior hockey, he pitched the idea of a “midget super league” at the summit. (Renney, saying he did not “want to contaminate the process by saying too much publicly,” declined to speak further.)
They also talked a bit about NCAA/CHL on HNIC/Sportsnet this past Saturday. It comes on at 1:30 or so. It's couched as there being "a lot of talk" about NCAA/CHL players and David Branch having sent a "proposal" to the NCAA. I have a feeling that NCAA is not at all interested and this 'proposal' is so the CHL can say they're trying "work with" the NCAA. But maybe I'm too cynical.

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03-22-2016, 12:36 PM
  #92
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Pertinent

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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Although not directly tied to the lawsuits, there has been some stuff related to the CHL recently that I thought was worth bringing (leaving aside the substance of the lawsuits, the degree to which the CHL structure 'changes form' obviously would affect whatever legal obligations they might have).

There has been some discussion about raising the draft age from 18 to 19. Leaving aside the practical problems that might bring, there has also been accompanying discussion from Hockey Canada about creating a "Super Midget League" - the stated objective was to keep 16 year olds out of junior hockey (even though relatively few players on each team are 16 year olds). I'm not sure who will be paying for the players in this Super Midget League (are parents picking up an extra year of minor hockey or will it be on Hockey Canada's dime).

In any event, here was what Elliotte Friedman wrote a couple of weeks back:



They also talked a bit about NCAA/CHL on HNIC/Sportsnet this past Saturday. It comes on at 1:30 or so. It's couched as there being "a lot of talk" about NCAA/CHL players and David Branch having sent a "proposal" to the NCAA. I have a feeling that NCAA is not at all interested and this 'proposal' is so the CHL can say they're trying "work with" the NCAA. But maybe I'm too cynical.
The issues raised are quite pertinent, especially going forward. Have bolded a few phrases.

Raising the draft age from 18 to 19. This has a number of consequences. Touching on the main ones here.

Such a draft would guarantee that players drafted into the NHL are in fact adults at the time of the NHL Entry Draft in June. The they will be 18 years old, post draft to the September 15, cut-off date scenario gets eliminated. This will also benefit development and the NHL by effectively giving the drafting team an extra year to evaluate the player, be it pre draft or post draft.

Keeping 16 year olds out of junior hockey? Not really. In fact far from. The real issue is keeping minors out of competition with adults in a team sport. The main reason for this is not pedagogical but practical. Midget hockey like school hockey is not subject to an "Entry Draft" - CHL is subject to an entry draft. Midget hockey like school hockey does not allow player trades.Players rights are portable should the family move according to the rules - similar to moving to another public school district. Midget hockey is governed by residency rules with player advantageous "free agency" rules. That all of these factors would help player development is incidental to CHL interests.

The "Super Midget" league would also allow hockey players to retain NCAA eligibility until they are 18 year old adults(thru the age of 17). Hand in hand with the "Super Midget" league would be a slimmed down "Super Junior" version of the CHL. Plus a rationalized AHL.

Cost. Biggest cost(in terms of waste) in elite hockey in Canada and the USA - midget or junior is travel. Limiting travel to local divisions within a league structure would be a start. Recalculating the flow of developmental money from the NHL down to the teams doing the development at the various levels would be a start.

CHL/NCAA. If the CHL and its junior predecessors were serious about hockey and education the present situation would not exist. Before looking at the NCAA the CHL would do well to look at a partnership with Canadian University hockey. Some background. Into the 1960s Canadian university junior varsity teams(hockey and football) were eligible to participate in junior leagues.

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03-24-2016, 06:03 PM
  #93
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The sense I get with Super Midget is a draft, a league for each province, and larger Jr A + smaller Major Junior markets. After that, streamlined Major Junior leagues.

Does this sound about right? Does it make sense? What am I missing?

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03-25-2016, 06:33 AM
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Fine Tuning

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The sense I get with Super Midget is a draft, a league for each province, and larger Jr A + smaller Major Junior markets. After that, streamlined Major Junior leagues.

Does this sound about right? Does it make sense? What am I missing?
Replace province by region or jurisdiction, depending on player population and distance. Presently in major junior or elite midget, Gatineau and Ottawa, in two different provinces, different leagues, are separated by a bridge, within 15 - 30 minutes of each other by bus but they do not play each other except for possible participation in national tournaments. Yet the teams will go across province or across provincial / international borders 15+ hours one way by bus to play league teams.

Factor in age - minors and adults. Issue at various levels - physical maturity, schooling, legal age in various jurisdictions.

Factor in academics, school structures - high school varies from ending at grade 11 to grade 13 in different jurisdictions

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04-28-2016, 10:15 AM
  #95
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I wonder how many blows to the head Mr. Mitchell took while at Clarkson University (playing US NCAA hockey). To be sure, things in the NHL are bad enough already, but US NCAA hockey (where fighting is banned and full cages and neck guards are mandatory) very much has that culture of all of that protection leading that sense of invulnerability among the players and no accountability for the cheap shot artists and their stick and boarding related offences.

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06-01-2016, 12:27 AM
  #96
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I had a look to see if there were any updates on this. Nothing new to report - although I did come across the flyer the plaintiff-side firm released this month describing the suit "in its own words":

OHL Class Action: A Lawsuit to Pay the Players

Here is a portion...

Quote:
A lawsuit has been filed against the OHL and all of its member teams on the basis that former and current major junior hockey players should get paid real wages for playing hockey. It’s the quality of play and level of competition provided by the players that generates all the team’s revenues. In reality, major junior hockey players are employees, just like NHL players. The lawsuit will try to show this. If we are successful, then former and current players would be entitled to receive minimum wage and overtime pay, just like other young people who work for profit-making businesses.

Up until 2014, most players in the OHL were paid $50 per week. This is the same amount that has been paid to players going back to the 1970’s. Players are expected to maintain demanding practice and game schedules, endure long overnight bus rides, risk getting injured, accept getting cut or traded on a moment’s notice, follow orders, and live with strangers away from their homes and families. When teams are making huge profits and franchises sell for millions of dollars, paying players $50 per week is exploitive.

Commencing in 2014, players don’t even receive this. Instead, they are now only reimbursed for expenses. Major junior hockey is big-business. For example, the Erie Otters sold for over $7 million in 2015. The Quebec Ramparts were purchased for between $20 and $25 million in 2014. Teams are owned by many of the same people who own NHL teams, by major corporations and by some of Canada’s wealthiest families. It’s a huge for-profit enterprise where everyone gets paid except the players.

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07-05-2016, 05:54 PM
  #97
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There have been more court filings on this. They discussed it on SportsCentre right now and there's an article on the TSN website

Former OHL owner says confidential side deal to lure player was a ‘mistake’

Quote:
Sherry Bassin, a long-time Canadian junior hockey executive, gave one of his former players with the Erie Otters a side deal worth thousands of dollars that was not approved by the Ontario Hockey League.

...

“I made a mistake. I want to be public about it,” Bassin said in a phone interview. “It is what it is. I didn’t go through life being 100-per-cent perfect, obviously. ... I honestly believe that these players are looked after pretty well. I mean the conditions and travel … It’s one of the best scholarships. [Gottzmann] obviously got his enhanced a little bit. It’s too bad he wanted to be public and demean me, but I don’t run from stories.”

...

Gottzmann, a forward who played with the Otters and Peterborough Petes, was selected by Erie in the second round of the 2009 OHL priority selection draft. Bassin gave the Burlington, Ont., native a confidential contract that went above and beyond the OHL’s standard player agreement, Gottzmann claimed in a June 8, 2016, affidavit.
Gottzmann said the Otters agreed, as part of the standard player agreement he signed June 22, 2009, to give him a four-year educational scholarship worth $10,500 per year, money that would go to his tuition, other school fees and books. That agreement was approved by the OHL, he wrote. Gottzmann now attends Carleton University.
But he said the Otters also gave him a letter that promised he’d be paid additional compensation of $6,000 in cash, payable in four annual $1,500 stipends while he was in school.
“The letter… sets out an additional agreement which, to the best of my knowledge, was not disclosed to the OHL,” Gottzmann wrote. “The letter provides ‘it is also understood that this arrangement shall be kept confidential.’”
Besides receiving the cash payments, Gottzmann wrote that Bassin also agreed to contribute $800 each year — $300 more than was permitted by the OHL — toward the purchase of a career-ending disability insurance police.
“The Otters offered me this additional agreement because I was a top prospect,” Gottzmann wrote. “All players know that some top prospects receive similar agreements. I believe all of the teams know that if they want to recruit a top prospect, they have to ‘sweeten the pot.’”

...

New court filings in the CHL litigation also raise questions about the due diligence conducted by teams over living conditions in the homes of billet families.
Gottzmann wrote in his affidavit that some of his teammates told him they had to ask permission to eat food in their billets’ homes, and that the pantry and cupboards were locked.
“I support this class action lawsuit because I believe players should be fairly compensated for their hard work, for their sacrifices, and for the risks they take,” Gottzmann wrote.
John Chartrand, a former goalie with the Niagara IceDogs, Barrie Colts and Belleville Bulls, made similar claims in his June 9, 2016, affidavit.
Chartrand wrote that when the IceDogs sent him to play with a junior team in Huntsville, Ont., he billeted with a local man who lived with his girlfriend.
“I was forbidden from shutting any doors in the house, including my bedroom, so that [my billet] could monitor me at all times, including while sleeping,” Chartrand wrote.
Chartrand, who is also suing the Barrie Colts because he says he was forced to return to the ice too soon after he was injured in a car accident in December 2010, wrote that he was also aware of star players being given additional money besides what their standard players agreement allowed for.
“When I played for the IceDogs, Billy Jenkins, a star player drafted 25th overall in 2010, was paid $400 in a paycheque while I received $100,” Chartrand wrote. “Billy showed me his paycheque when we were driving home on a pay day. When I played for the Bulls, Malcolm Subban, a star player whose brother P.K. Subban played for the Bulls before becoming an NHL star, claimed during a conversation with me to receive $0.50 from every Bulls ticket sold.”
Also filed in Ontario court was a copy of a QMJHL player’s contract. The contract – the player’s name and team has been redacted – calls for the team to cover $2,000 worth of training expenses each summer and includes a series of bonuses. The player was scheduled to receive $5,000 if he was selected in the first round of the NHL draft, $2,000 for being named CHL player of the year, and $1,000 for being selected for Canada’s world junior team.
edit - there are a lot of the plaintiffs' documents on their law firm's website: http://www.chlclassaction.com/court-record/


Last edited by UsernameWasTaken: 07-05-2016 at 06:07 PM.
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07-05-2016, 06:35 PM
  #98
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Lawsuits concerning JR players being paid "extra", living conditions and playing hurt

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/former-ohl-...stake-1.521583

I actually forgot about these lawsuits and now that stuff is coming out the information is interesting

Quote:
Bassin confirmed that he made the payments to Gottzmann.
Quote:
Gottzmann’s testimony is being used by lawyers for former players as evidence that the 60 Canadian Hockey League teams are for-profit businesses that will go to extremes — even if it means breaking the CHL's rules — to attract the best players, win games and boost profits.

a different player

Quote:
Chartrand wrote that when the IceDogs sent him to play with a junior team in Huntsville, Ont., he billeted with a local man who lived with his girlfriend.
“I was forbidden from shutting any doors in the house, including my bedroom, so that [my billet] could monitor me at all times, including while sleeping,” Chartrand wrote

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07-05-2016, 06:38 PM
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My concern is the courts will say yes the players should be paid but must pay there own room and board and players are shocked when reality hits with what the costs really are.

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07-05-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
There have been more court filings on this. They discussed it on SportsCentre right now and there's an article on the TSN website

Former OHL owner says confidential side deal to lure player was a ‘mistake’



edit - there are a lot of the plaintiffs' documents on their law firm's website: http://www.chlclassaction.com/court-record/
The use of cash payments is very interesting. Time for the GST/PST/HST boys to have a look.

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