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Kris Draper - "There Will Be Blood"

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Old
03-16-2017, 03:11 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
so the wings signed a tough guy to go an protect a PITA 4th liner ? Really ? Since when does Draper need protection ? Oh since he chose to never man up himself, that's when.

and if McCarty as a legit toughie had a beef with Lemieux, he has lots of options at his disposal other than suckering an unknowing opponent. When he did for round 2, how'd that turn out for him against a guy who knows he's gonna go and can throw with both hands ?
Actually, Mac fought Lemieux several times, including the first time they've met in the 97-98 season and won every time. Sour grapes.

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03-16-2017, 03:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I did which is why it makes me hate Kris Draper even more. Talking about getting even by proxy " I look over and McCarthy is wailing on Lemieux".

For all the griping about how his team hated the avs, not disliked but hated, kris draper never lifted a single finger in support of that hate.

And I like McCarthy, think that outside of this he was a pretty good guy. But why is it that the meme is always that " Lemieux turtled" when in reality it was that McCarty suckered a non tough guy on opportunity # 35 ?

And for the record I like Tie domi as well but me liking him doesn't give him license to sucker a guy like samuelson.
In the article Draper says that he wasn't looking for retribution, and it fits the narrative even from at the time. McCarty and the team went and got it. Draper was a sandpaper guy, but he was never a nasty guy like Lemieux or McCarty were. You can see that by their PIM totals. It isn't as if Lemieux got his big PIM years by fighting, the most he ever put up was 5 in a season.

The fact that you hate Draper but like McCarty is just backwards. Draper was a faceoff man and a penalty killer. McCarty was the tough guy. They played their roles just like any other player in the league would have. I always understand when people say they hate McCarty because if he wasn't a Wing for a large part of his career I probably would too, but hating Draper just seems odd.

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Old
03-16-2017, 03:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
so the wings signed a tough guy to go an protect a PITA 4th liner ? Really ? Since when does Draper need protection ? Oh since he chose to never man up himself, that's when.

and if McCarty as a legit toughie had a beef with Lemieux, he has lots of options at his disposal other than suckering an unknowing opponent. When he did for round 2, how'd that turn out for him against a guy who knows he's gonna go and can throw with both hands ?
It went just fine? Pretty even fight overall.

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Old
03-16-2017, 04:55 PM
  #79
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Draper even managed to get invited to Team Canada twice, in 04 and 06. Quite an accomplishment for a $1 man.

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03-16-2017, 06:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Actually, Mac fought Lemieux several times, including the first time they've met in the 97-98 season and won every time. Sour grapes.
Geez a legit toughie beat a non fighter. That's quite the feather in that suckerpunchers cap.

And when lemieux wasn't suckered that was a draw at best.

But keep crowing over a heavy getting a hand up after suckering a guy. Hazzah!

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Old
03-16-2017, 06:15 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by wingsnut19 View Post
In the article Draper says that he wasn't looking for retribution, and it fits the narrative even from at the time. McCarty and the team went and got it. Draper was a sandpaper guy, but he was never a nasty guy like Lemieux or McCarty were. You can see that by their PIM totals. It isn't as if Lemieux got his big PIM years by fighting, the most he ever put up was 5 in a season.

The fact that you hate Draper but like McCarty is just backwards. Draper was a faceoff man and a penalty killer. McCarty was the tough guy. They played their roles just like any other player in the league would have. I always understand when people say they hate McCarty because if he wasn't a Wing for a large part of his career I probably would too, but hating Draper just seems odd.
So you see lemieux in the same light as McCarty? That speaks volumes.

McCarty was a legit heavy, lemieux was a pest/rat who answered the bell when needed and Draper was a sandpaper guy who only played between the whistles and when push came to shove needed to be bailed out by a toughie.

If draper were talent, I get it. But he never was. Played sandpaper until it got dicey and then did the hot tag to McCarty or others.

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03-16-2017, 07:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
So you see lemieux in the same light as McCarty? That speaks volumes.

McCarty was a legit heavy, lemieux was a pest/rat who answered the bell when needed and Draper was a sandpaper guy who only played between the whistles and when push came to shove needed to be bailed out by a toughie.

If draper were talent, I get it. But he never was. Played sandpaper until it got dicey and then did the hot tag to McCarty or others.
No, I don't see Lemieux and McCarty in the same light. McCarty was a nasty player that was on the ice to disrupt and fight. Lemieux was a fairly skilled guy who played like an ******* and rarely found the balls to answer the bell when challenged on his dirty play. McCarty got a high percentage of his PIM from fights. Lemieux got them playing with his elbows high.

I was just trying to say all that with a bit of subtlety.


Last edited by Johnny Engine: 03-16-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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Old
03-16-2017, 07:29 PM
  #83
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No, I don't see Lemieux and McCarty in the same light. McCarty was a nasty player that was on the ice to disrupt and fight. Lemieux was a fairly skilled guy who played like an ******* and rarely found the balls to answer the bell when challenged on his dirty play. McCarty got a high percentage of his PIM from fights. Lemieux got them playing with his elbows high.

I was just trying to say all that with a bit of subtlety.
Lemieux was a rat but when called he answered. He also didn't ever punch down and sucker a guy like mccartry or do a ghandi impersonation like Draper.

Oh he also freaking ruled the playoffs when he was green.

But keep trumpeting the time a legit toughie jumped an unsuspecting non fighter to "get even" because kris drapers mitts are crazy glued to his hands.

This thread should be retitled. Kris draper. There will be blood becuase he's sending out McCarty to fight his battles for him becuase he sure as he'll won't do it himself.m


Last edited by Johnny Engine: 03-16-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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Old
03-16-2017, 07:35 PM
  #84
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Haha this is all very nostalgic.

Thanks for bringing me back. Haven't had a Avs/Wings chat like this in years.

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Old
03-16-2017, 08:00 PM
  #85
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I realize with concussions there more focus on player protection but these kind of rivalries are missed in the sport today.

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Old
03-16-2017, 08:48 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Lemieux was a rat but when called he answered. He also didn't ever punch down and sucker a guy like mccartry or do a ghandi impersonation like Draper.

Oh he also freaking ruled the playoffs when he was green.

But keep trumpeting the time a legit toughie jumped an unsuspecting non fighter to "get even" because kris drapers mitts are crazy glued to his hands.

This thread should be retitled. Kris draper. There will be blood becuase he's sending out McCarty to fight his battles for him becuase he sure as he'll won't do it himself.m
I cringe everytime I read the word "toughie".

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Old
03-16-2017, 09:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Lemieux was a rat but when called he answered. He also didn't ever punch down and sucker a guy like mccartry or do a ghandi impersonation like Draper.

Oh he also freaking ruled the playoffs when he was green.

But keep trumpeting the time a legit toughie jumped an unsuspecting non fighter to "get even" because kris drapers mitts are crazy glued to his hands.

This thread should be retitled. Kris draper. There will be blood becuase he's sending out McCarty to fight his battles for him becuase he sure as he'll won't do it himself.m
Draper hardly ever fought anyone. He got blindsided with a ridiculous hit and had his face destroyed. Why on Earth would he all of a sudden want to get into a fistfight with a guy who

a) cheapshotted him to start the thing.
and
b) who had several inches and 25 lbs on him.

Draper would have gotten his ass beat if he tried fighting Lemieux. So he didn't. He just played hockey like he always did. And McCarty did what any good teammate would do and stuck up for his buddy.

And also... Lemieux is getting praise because he didn't cower away from getting his ass beat in relation to a dirty ****ing hit?

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03-16-2017, 09:48 PM
  #88
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This reminded me a lot of the 80s rivalry between Montreal and Quebec and some of the crazy brawls they had and the brawls the HABS and Flyers had and the hatred Hextall had for Chelios. I want to see that kind of hockey again.
Before the 89 brawl over the Chelios hit on Propp, the Flyers & Habs had another big playoff brawl in 87 because one of the Habs' young players kept shooting the puck into the Flyers' net after the pre-game skate despite being warned to stop doing it. Who was the player who kept doing this? Claude Lemieux.

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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
and lemieux who was not a fighter took on a legit heavy in mccarthy, willingly. because claude lemieux was such a beast that draper must have feared for his life from those fists.

If you are fine with fourth line pain in the ass players not fighting their own battles for fear of losing, perhaps they might want to revisit their roles.
Um, dude had 34 career NHL fights by my count. He fought plenty.

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03-16-2017, 10:13 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
you don't care that the only way that Lemieux got his face beat in was from a much better fighter who picked his spot to sucker punch him and then when Lemieux consented for a rematch was at best was a draw against a non figher?

oh and in all of the fights between the avs and the wings that chris draper featured prominently in none of them ?

Yeah, that speaks volumes.

You think a guy did you dirty, you settle up. you don't ask a heavy to go around protecting a PITA 4th line grinder.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that people are going around spreading the rumor that Kris Draper is some kind of heavyweight.

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03-17-2017, 01:37 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
So you see lemieux in the same light as McCarty? That speaks volumes.

McCarty was a legit heavy, lemieux was a pest/rat who answered the bell when needed and Draper was a sandpaper guy who only played between the whistles and when push came to shove needed to be bailed out by a toughie.

If draper were talent, I get it. But he never was. Played sandpaper until it got dicey and then did the hot tag to McCarty or others.
Lemieux was a total POS, and if you play like that, you better answer the bell to WHOEVER comes ringing. He was the master of the cheap shot. An inspiration to all of the Matt Cookes and Raffi Torres of present day hockey. Back then, you had heavies and enforcers on your team for one reason. To smack the hell out of the Claude Lemieux's of the league... and make sure it was a deterrent towards him killing people.

Draper never played like that. Quite the opposite, really. When you're a POS and you take out a teammate that is pretty much universally loved...you get what's coming to you. How is this difficult to understand?

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03-17-2017, 02:23 AM
  #91
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Before the 89 brawl over the Chelios hit on Propp, the Flyers & Habs had another big playoff brawl in 87 because one of the Habs' young players kept shooting the puck into the Flyers' net after the pre-game skate despite being warned to stop doing it. Who was the player who kept doing this? Claude Lemieux.



Um, dude had 34 career NHL fights by my count. He fought plenty.
He played for like 34 years. Look at his fight card and then look at McCarty's. You see a difference? Yet he still went and went willingly punching up in order to do so when he was given the chance ( I.e when he didn't get suckered).

The lemieux turtles thing is just wrong. Its not true but it keeps being repeated as revisionist history by fans who want to forget that mccarty got the upper hand by suckering a non consenting combatant.

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03-17-2017, 02:33 AM
  #92
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Lemieux was a total POS, and if you play like that, you better answer the bell to WHOEVER comes ringing. He was the master of the cheap shot. An inspiration to all of the Matt Cookes and Raffi Torres of present day hockey. Back then, you had heavies and enforcers on your team for one reason. To smack the hell out of the Claude Lemieux's of the league... and make sure it was a deterrent towards him killing people.

Draper never played like that. Quite the opposite, really. When you're a POS and you take out a teammate that is pretty much universally loved...you get what's coming to you. How is this difficult to understand?
No one denies lemieux was a rat. But a rat who answered the bell. Draper was a self professed pita to play against who never did anything between the whistles even when he had a legit beef, he did nothing.

So lemieux is a pos for looking the much bigger and pugilistically talented McCarty in the face and saying ' yep I'll go" but Draper can't ever be expected to do the same unless its against monsters like Pete svoboda.

For a guy who titles his essay there will be blood, its funny how little he was responsible for spilling.

Who's the pos again? The guy who stands up, punches up and takes his lumps or the guy who won't because he's afraid he might actually lose so he sends out a ringer to do his dirrt work for him?

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03-17-2017, 02:35 AM
  #93
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You seem to be under the mistaken impression that people are going around spreading the rumor that Kris Draper is some kind of heavyweight.
He's not a heavy weight but neither was lemieux. It only stopped one of them from punching up.

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03-17-2017, 09:08 AM
  #94
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Shanahan has really gotten around hasn't he? I was watching one of the ads för this summer's WC and Shanahan was talking about the infamous brawl during the WJC I think it was in Kladno, where the Canadian and Russian junior teams fought until they literally turned the lights off and then DQ both teams Didn't know that Shanahan was part of that team The only one involved in two infamous brawls.
The Punch-up in Piestany.

Actually, Konstantinov was there for that one too.

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03-17-2017, 10:43 AM
  #95
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He played for like 34 years. Look at his fight card and then look at McCarty's. You see a difference? Yet he still went and went willingly punching up in order to do so when he was given the chance ( I.e when he didn't get suckered).

The lemieux turtles thing is just wrong. Its not true but it keeps being repeated as revisionist history by fans who want to forget that mccarty got the upper hand by suckering a non consenting combatant.
None of this has anything to do with anything I posted. I didn't say anything about turtling, McCarty, Draper, etc. You called him not a fighter, like he was Pelle Eklund or something. That's incorrect. Lemieux fought quite a bit for a guy who wasn't a heavy, and he played a game that definitely invited some rough stuff.

Incidentally, he's also the author of my favorite dumb hockey quote. When trying to trash-talk Flyers captain Eric Desjardins, Lemieux came up with this golden nugget: "What does the C stand for? Selfish?"

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03-17-2017, 10:58 AM
  #96
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No one denies lemieux was a rat. But a rat who answered the bell. Draper was a self professed pita to play against who never did anything between the whistles even when he had a legit beef, he did nothing.

So lemieux is a pos for looking the much bigger and pugilistically talented McCarty in the face and saying ' yep I'll go" but Draper can't ever be expected to do the same unless its against monsters like Pete svoboda.

For a guy who titles his essay there will be blood, its funny how little he was responsible for spilling.

Who's the pos again? The guy who stands up, punches up and takes his lumps or the guy who won't because he's afraid he might actually lose so he sends out a ringer to do his dirrt work for him?
You seem to have a very difficult time understanding the article or the reality of what actually happened during those rivalry years.

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03-17-2017, 11:00 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
No one denies lemieux was a rat. But a rat who answered the bell. Draper was a self professed pita to play against who never did anything between the whistles even when he had a legit beef, he did nothing.

So lemieux is a pos for looking the much bigger and pugilistically talented McCarty in the face and saying ' yep I'll go" but Draper can't ever be expected to do the same unless its against monsters like Pete svoboda.

For a guy who titles his essay there will be blood, its funny how little he was responsible for spilling.

Who's the pos again? The guy who stands up, punches up and takes his lumps or the guy who won't because he's afraid he might actually lose so he sends out a ringer to do his dirrt work for him?
Who's the POS? The guy who is out there intentionally trying to injure people. That's who the POS is.

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03-17-2017, 11:14 AM
  #98
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Who's the POS? The guy who is out there intentionally trying to injure people. That's who the POS is.
Agreed. I don't know what this guy is on about.

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03-17-2017, 11:43 AM
  #99
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The Punch-up in Piestany.

Actually, Konstantinov was there for that one too.
Yup, I think Konstantinov was on the ice when that whole brawl started in Piestany. Fedorov was just a kid (16 or something).

This one on March 26th, 1997 was Mike Knuble's first NHL game. What a first-hand introduction to the NHL, lol. I remember watching it no PASS and my nephew, who was probably 5 or 6, called the Avalanche "the bloodies" after that cause Roy came out of it with a bloody face.

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03-17-2017, 11:44 AM
  #100
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If draper were talent, I get it. But he never was. Played sandpaper until it got dicey and then did the hot tag to McCarty or others.
Draper certainly played chippy, but Maltby and Holmstrom played the "run-and-hide" role much more frequently. Perhaps you're conflating the other two into Draper?

In any case, fun read. Would have enjoyed it more last year around this time though (ie - when the Stadium Series was going down here in Denver). I'm also enjoying how many non-Avs and non-Wings fans are taking part in this thread.

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