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Kris Draper - "There Will Be Blood"

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Old
03-17-2017, 12:40 PM
  #101
sandysan
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Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
Who's the POS? The guy who is out there intentionally trying to injure people. That's who the POS is.
so mccarty who resorted to suckering a guy ? Welcome to the right side of the road.

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03-17-2017, 12:54 PM
  #102
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Incidentally, he's also the author of my favorite dumb hockey quote. When trying to trash-talk Flyers captain Eric Desjardins, Lemieux came up with this golden nugget: "What does the C stand for? Selfish?"
You, sir, have just made my day!

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03-17-2017, 07:18 PM
  #103
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You, sir, have just made my day!
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Originally Posted by Rick Tocchet
There's a lot of yapping going on. But Claude Lemieux came up with one of my all-time favorite lines. He says to Eric Desjardins, 'What's that "C" stand for - selfish?' We kind of liked that one. We have to give Claude the A, B, Cs for the next game.
I remember having another belly laugh when the press asked Eric Desjardins if Lemieux could have been thinking / getting confused with french. A bemused Desjardins helpfully pointed out to the reporter that the word for selfish in french is 'egoiste'.

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03-17-2017, 07:25 PM
  #104
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so mccarty who resorted to suckering a guy ? Welcome to the right side of the road.
It was a POS move but given the target? Nobody cares. Eye for an eye and all that.

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Old
03-17-2017, 08:45 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
so mccarty who resorted to suckering a guy ? Welcome to the right side of the road.
Life has changed a lot since then with McCarty's personal battles, but you should probably read up on how close McCarty and Kris Draper's relationship was at the time. This wasn't just a teammate. It was his best friend. He slept at his house in case of the whole throwing up and needing to cut the wires they talk about in this story. Traveled around with him the whole time he was recovering staying in Detroit during the summer. They did discuss getting even when he picked him up from the hospital, both players say it was only discussed once really and there was no set timeline.

Your rendition of how events should have then unfolded also ignores something pretty critical. Draper was ordered by team physicians not to fight moving forward because of the extensive facial damage that he got from the hit. A lot of people don't like it but both Maltby and Draper suffered significant orbital bone breaks that changed even that possibility though Draper was never likely to be a fighter. Look at a picture of him or better yet if you were to meet him in person (and I have) it is pretty jarring to see the structural damage on that side of his face. It healed up, but the scars and everything there is still very prevalent. You can see where Lemieux broke his face to this day in several places.

Also another notion being spouted here in a lot of your posts that is incorrect is that Draper is a nothing fourth line player. He was a Selke award winner. One of the best checking players in the game for a decent stretch and so good at it whether people like it or not (I know this was an emphatic no after the Olympics in Italy) a member of Team Canada. He earned that by being a major performer at a World Cup of Hockey. He is a much better player than what you're saying. One of the best PK players I have ever seen and a four time cup winner the same amount that Claude won.

Claude Lemieux had a long record, he in my opinion was absolutely suckered by a bigger guy looking to hurt him that caught him vulnerable and not paying attention for a second. That was something Claude loved to do himself is why it hard to really work up a lot of sorrow. But McCarty has an interesting position how big the sucker punch was, he says Lemieux was looking right at him in one of his interviews. Anyway a lot of McCarty's takes on the incident can be taken from his book, written by Kevin Allen.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...o-hurt-lemieux

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Old
03-18-2017, 02:31 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Life has changed a lot since then with McCarty's personal battles, but you should probably read up on how close McCarty and Kris Draper's relationship was at the time. This wasn't just a teammate. It was his best friend. He slept at his house in case of the whole throwing up and needing to cut the wires they talk about in this story. Traveled around with him the whole time he was recovering staying in Detroit during the summer. They did discuss getting even when he picked him up from the hospital, both players say it was only discussed once really and there was no set timeline.

Your rendition of how events should have then unfolded also ignores something pretty critical. Draper was ordered by team physicians not to fight moving forward because of the extensive facial damage that he got from the hit. A lot of people don't like it but both Maltby and Draper suffered significant orbital bone breaks that changed even that possibility though Draper was never likely to be a fighter. Look at a picture of him or better yet if you were to meet him in person (and I have) it is pretty jarring to see the structural damage on that side of his face. It healed up, but the scars and everything there is still very prevalent. You can see where Lemieux broke his face to this day in several places.

Also another notion being spouted here in a lot of your posts that is incorrect is that Draper is a nothing fourth line player. He was a Selke award winner. One of the best checking players in the game for a decent stretch and so good at it whether people like it or not (I know this was an emphatic no after the Olympics in Italy) a member of Team Canada. He earned that by being a major performer at a World Cup of Hockey. He is a much better player than what you're saying. One of the best PK players I have ever seen and a four time cup winner the same amount that Claude won.

Claude Lemieux had a long record, he in my opinion was absolutely suckered by a bigger guy looking to hurt him that caught him vulnerable and not paying attention for a second. That was something Claude loved to do himself is why it hard to really work up a lot of sorrow. But McCarty has an interesting position how big the sucker punch was, he says Lemieux was looking right at him in one of his interviews. Anyway a lot of McCarty's takes on the incident can be taken from his book, written by Kevin Allen.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...o-hurt-lemieux
Wasn't just a teamate was his best friend and yet he let multiple games pass before he suckered lemiieux. He must have been really upset about his best friend with that justice delayed is justice denied bit.

And as a habs fan I know all about players who go right up to the line but can't medically answer the bell. If emelin had a story called " there will be blood" my question remains the same " whose blood velcro gloves?"

And the notion that lemieux was looking right at him is laughable. But if that takes the. Cowards sting off his actions and helps him sleep at night so be it.

Lemieux was a rat, he was dirty. He was mean he was a pest ( and a playoff beast) but when push came to shove he answered the bell.

When domi suckered samuelson ( who by any metric was more deserving than lemieux) people might have enjoyed the result but they didn't lionize domi or start and perpetrate the false narrative that ulfie had a glass jaw.

Players who celebrate their teamate suckering a guy are just as bad as the fans who convince themselves that the guy who got suckered deserved it and then get all giddy by futher casting aspersions with this. "Turtle" nonsense.

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Old
03-18-2017, 02:58 AM
  #107
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Sandysan, no one cares about this either.

I'll give you one educated guess as to why.


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Old
03-18-2017, 08:52 AM
  #108
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Sandysan, no one cares about this either.

I'll give you one educated guess as to why.

Yeah leaf fans don't remember the date when domi suckered sammuelson and they don't cheer domi for doing it.

You want to see someone turtling? Google frankie leroux and Tony twist. That's turtling.

If you have to conflate turtling and a guy getting suckered to advance the narrative that McCarty was nobly out there to avenge his "best friend" so be it. But there was nothing noble in what McCarty or domi did and when you tell the truth and not this revisionist nonsense the real narrative of " pugilist suckers non pugilist while little brother sits on his hands on the bench and cheers" isn't something I would cheer about.

You don't like a pest? Do what Evander Kane ( and countless others do) did to Matt Cooke. You square up drop them and go.

Is the narrative behind this that becuase of a hit gone bad on draper that the wings were justified to send out a real fighter to hide in the weeds and sucker an unknowing opponent? And people celebrate this notion?

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03-18-2017, 09:46 AM
  #109
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Wasn't just a teamate was his best friend and yet he let multiple games pass before he suckered lemiieux. He must have been really upset about his best friend with that justice delayed is justice denied bit.
Claude missed the first two meetings with Detroit that season so he only played them 10 days earlier in Colorado.

I remember the Red Wings saying if Claude had at least apologized for the hit on Draper then things may had been different.

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03-18-2017, 12:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
But there was nothing noble in what McCarty or domi did and when you tell the truth and not this revisionist nonsense the real narrative of " pugilist suckers non pugilist while little brother sits on his hands on the bench and cheers" isn't something I would cheer about.
For the third time, nobody cares about the "noble" part and nobody pretends to.

They wanted revenge, and to see a rat ******* get what was coming to them.

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Old
03-18-2017, 03:54 PM
  #111
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Geez a legit toughie beat a non fighter. That's quite the feather in that suckerpunchers cap.

And when lemieux wasn't suckered that was a draw at best.

But keep crowing over a heavy getting a hand up after suckering a guy. Hazzah!
[Mod] keep calling mcCarty a heavyweight, which he never was. He was what i called a mid heavyweight, he was not in the domi or probert heavyweights. Its funny and says alot that you "hate" draper but act like claude was the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Last edited by Theokritos: 03-19-2017 at 10:57 AM. Reason: not adding
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03-18-2017, 06:53 PM
  #112
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[Mod] keep calling mcCarty a heavyweight, which he never was. He was what i called a mid heavyweight, he was not in the domi or probert heavyweights. Its funny and says alot that you "hate" draper but act like claude was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
[Mod]

I've said from day one that lemieux was a pest a rat and a playoff boss. He was all of those things. He was no angel.

But when time came to settlle, he did.

Kris draper, not so much. And the one "win" the wings have over him was when McCarty punched an unsuspecting combattant.

But if wings fans wanted revenge no matter how it was delivered, had McCarty saught redress at the end of a stick, would they cheer this as just deserts as well?


Last edited by Theokritos: 03-19-2017 at 10:58 AM. Reason: not adding
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03-19-2017, 01:17 AM
  #113
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Draper wasn't a fighter. He wasn't going to go toe-to-toe with Lemieux. I'm not sure how that is a negative aspect towards Draper.

Your original issue was because Draper tried to be a "pain in the ass" (in the context of grinding it out, nothing to do with trying to be a tough guy) there is something wrong with someone else sticking up for him. You have yet to demonstrate why that is a reasonable position to take.

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03-19-2017, 12:19 PM
  #114
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It's a pretty bad article. When I first read it I thought it would be really good but it was just a general recap and a bit of whining.

I always find it amusing when fans make Lemieux out to be some no-talent hack who was constantly cheap shooting people. Yet all I ever hear about is the hit on Draper. Which, by the way, wouldn't have been as bad if: a) he hadn't mistimed it and got him at the bench instead of a second earlier into the glass. b) Draper hadn't turned at the last second.

Lemieux was the guy people loved to have on their team because he did everything he could to win and was clutch, but you hated him if he was on the other team.

When McCarty jumped him he should have been suspended, not only a sucker punch, but the knee and attempting to bash his head into the boards.

Finally, I can only laugh when Wings fans whine about Lemieux, considering players like Draper and Maltby who played dirty (especially with their sticks) rarely came out from behind the shadow of people like McCarty when it came time to face the music.

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03-19-2017, 11:20 PM
  #115
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It's a pretty bad article. When I first read it I thought it would be really good but it was just a general recap and a bit of whining.

I always find it amusing when fans make Lemieux out to be some no-talent hack who was constantly cheap shooting people. Yet all I ever hear about is the hit on Draper. Which, by the way, wouldn't have been as bad if: a) he hadn't mistimed it and got him at the bench instead of a second earlier into the glass. b) Draper hadn't turned at the last second.

Lemieux was the guy people loved to have on their team because he did everything he could to win and was clutch, but you hated him if he was on the other team.

When McCarty jumped him he should have been suspended, not only a sucker punch, but the knee and attempting to bash his head into the boards.

Finally, I can only laugh when Wings fans whine about Lemieux, considering players like Draper and Maltby who played dirty (especially with their sticks) rarely came out from behind the shadow of people like McCarty when it came time to face the music.
Lemieux was a guy who would do anything to win, tended to be clutch, but was not overwhelmingly popular with Devils. Respected, but an asshat, at least at the time of the lockout from what I saw

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03-20-2017, 05:24 AM
  #116
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Draper wasn't a fighter. He wasn't going to go toe-to-toe with Lemieux. I'm not sure how that is a negative aspect towards Draper.

Your original issue was because Draper tried to be a "pain in the ass" (in the context of grinding it out, nothing to do with trying to be a tough guy) there is something wrong with someone else sticking up for him. You have yet to demonstrate why that is a reasonable position to take.
And claude lemieux was a fighter ? If anything people complained that lemieux didnt fight enought ( but compared to kris draper he's freak dave shultz) That didnt stop him from punching up against McCarty. when has draper EVER answered the bell ?

I'm all for enforcers standing up for talent, first line guys who dont fight and dont play on the edge the way draper did. I didslike draper because he knew he could take liberties and NEVER have to back them up because if things got dicey, his " best friend" would step and and fight his fights for him.

He's a punk and a whiner and my year would have been made if gary roberts got him to count lights at the alumni game. Even after retiring, he's still sticking guys while skating away.

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03-20-2017, 06:00 AM
  #117
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And claude lemieux was a fighter ? If anything people complained that lemieux didnt fight enought ( but compared to kris draper he's freak dave shultz) That didnt stop him from punching up against McCarty. when has draper EVER answered the bell ?

I'm all for enforcers standing up for talent, first line guys who dont fight and dont play on the edge the way draper did. I didslike draper because he knew he could take liberties and NEVER have to back them up because if things got dicey, his " best friend" would step and and fight his fights for him.

He's a punk and a whiner and my year would have been made if gary roberts got him to count lights at the alumni game. Even after retiring, he's still sticking guys while skating away.
Must have been watching different careers.

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03-20-2017, 06:10 AM
  #118
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Must have been watching different careers.
so he was a self described pain in the ass because he was good at faceoffs ? And was an angel with his stick and willingly took on monsters like petr svoboda ?

to watch, the eyes must be open. again I ask, when did he ever stand up for himself and not stick guys knowing that someone else would step in for him ? psssst the answer is almost never. And in one of the fueuds in the recent NHL, he never lifted a finger.

fourth line " grinder" who played lose with his stick and never answered for it ? What's not to love ?

FCS 5 foot nine brendan gallagher has fought more than kris draper. if you think that you can play the way draper did and never answer then we must have been watching different careers.

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03-20-2017, 07:22 AM
  #119
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I have to wonder how much you understand about the game if you think him calling himself a "pain in the ass to play against" means he wanted to be a sneaky dirty player. That wasn't his game, and wasn't what he was referring to when he said that.

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03-20-2017, 07:41 AM
  #120
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I have to wonder how much you understand about the game if you think him calling himself a "pain in the ass to play against" means he wanted to be a sneaky dirty player. That wasn't his game, and wasn't what he was referring to when he said that.
so now you know what he was referring to ? Again of his talents how was he a pain in the ass to play against ? He isnt big, he wasnt physical, but he liked playing loosey goosey with his stick because he knew he could write checks all day long and then they would become someone else's problem.

Again how is he hard to play against ? because he's good at faceoffs ? An undersided aphysical player who never EVER drops the gloves is hard to play against how ?

Brendan gallagher is hard to play against because he always goes to the net and wont get moved. of if he is moved he comes back. He might have a reputation for goalternder interference/running but he isnt a stick hack like draper was, and even then he will drop them and go when asked. and he doesnt hide behind anyone on the habs.

so your point is a undersized, aphysical stick artist who never fights is hard to play against ? He might be hard to play againt by proxy, and kris draper wouldnt have it any other way, which is precisely the problem.

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03-20-2017, 09:23 AM
  #121
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so now you know what he was referring to ? Again of his talents how was he a pain in the ass to play against ? He isnt big, he wasnt physical, but he liked playing loosey goosey with his stick because he knew he could write checks all day long and then they would become someone else's problem.

Again how is he hard to play against ? because he's good at faceoffs ? An undersided aphysical player who never EVER drops the gloves is hard to play against how ?

Brendan gallagher is hard to play against because he always goes to the net and wont get moved. of if he is moved he comes back. He might have a reputation for goalternder interference/running but he isnt a stick hack like draper was, and even then he will drop them and go when asked. and he doesnt hide behind anyone on the habs.

so your point is a undersized, aphysical stick artist who never fights is hard to play against ? He might be hard to play againt by proxy, and kris draper wouldnt have it any other way, which is precisely the problem.
Well, you pretty much proved his point that you don't understand what Draper was even talking about. Draper was a tenacious defensive player who was particularly good at sticking to one player and focusing on an individual matchup. The main reason that he was difficult to play against was his speed and because he consistently focused on shutting down his opponent. Draper was talking about being difficult to play against, which is not a synonym for "dirty player who also fights" as you seem to think.

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03-20-2017, 12:41 PM
  #122
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so now you know what he was referring to ? Again of his talents how was he a pain in the ass to play against ? He isnt big, he wasnt physical, but he liked playing loosey goosey with his stick because he knew he could write checks all day long and then they would become someone else's problem.

Again how is he hard to play against ? because he's good at faceoffs ? An undersided aphysical player who never EVER drops the gloves is hard to play against how ?

Brendan gallagher is hard to play against because he always goes to the net and wont get moved. of if he is moved he comes back. He might have a reputation for goalternder interference/running but he isnt a stick hack like draper was, and even then he will drop them and go when asked. and he doesnt hide behind anyone on the habs.

so your point is a undersized, aphysical stick artist who never fights is hard to play against ? He might be hard to play againt by proxy, and kris draper wouldnt have it any other way, which is precisely the problem.
You're still going on about this? Draper was not a dirty player and was not known for using his stick. He didn't go around hitting people from behind and wasn't a fighter either so why should he have to answer the bell for being on the receiving end of a cheap shot by Claude Lemieux?

Claude was a cheap shot artist so he had to answer the bell for that. Like most rats he picked on smaller players though, like Draper and Kozlov here. He went after Kozlov but wanted no part of Bob Rouse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYEBqhwYJ4

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03-20-2017, 06:37 PM
  #123
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Yeah leaf fans don't remember the date when domi suckered sammuelson and they don't cheer domi for doing it.

You want to see someone turtling? Google frankie leroux and Tony twist. That's turtling.

If you have to conflate turtling and a guy getting suckered to advance the narrative that McCarty was nobly out there to avenge his "best friend" so be it. But there was nothing noble in what McCarty or domi did and when you tell the truth and not this revisionist nonsense the real narrative of " pugilist suckers non pugilist while little brother sits on his hands on the bench and cheers" isn't something I would cheer about.

You don't like a pest? Do what Evander Kane ( and countless others do) did to Matt Cooke. You square up drop them and go.

Is the narrative behind this that becuase of a hit gone bad on draper that the wings were justified to send out a real fighter to hide in the weeds and sucker an unknowing opponent? And people celebrate this notion?
Maybe nobody remembers the date because it did not lead to a huge brawl, but I guarantee you most fans of every team Ulf wasn't on were cheering. In fact, a vocal majority of players got in front of camera's and said someone should pay Domi a bonus.

Ulf was a guy who went around ending players careers intentionally. His own teammates have said "I love him, but he doesn't just cross the line, he blows the line up with a bazooka". They also usually let people beat the crap out of Ulf without stepping in to help him because they knew he earned it, teammate or not.

Domi later went on to say(After he retired) his teammates actually paid him for all money lost during his suspension unless I am mistaken

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03-20-2017, 06:51 PM
  #124
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so now you know what he was referring to ? Again of his talents how was he a pain in the ass to play against ? He isnt big, he wasnt physical, but he liked playing loosey goosey with his stick because he knew he could write checks all day long and then they would become someone else's problem.

Again how is he hard to play against ? because he's good at faceoffs ? An undersided aphysical player who never EVER drops the gloves is hard to play against how ?

Brendan gallagher is hard to play against because he always goes to the net and wont get moved. of if he is moved he comes back. He might have a reputation for goalternder interference/running but he isnt a stick hack like draper was, and even then he will drop them and go when asked. and he doesnt hide behind anyone on the habs.

so your point is a undersized, aphysical stick artist who never fights is hard to play against ? He might be hard to play againt by proxy, and kris draper wouldnt have it any other way, which is precisely the problem.
Draper was a clutch and grab selke winning shadow. He annoyed people because they could not shake him on the ice, but he was not a dirty player.

Claude Lemieux was the kind of guy who would intentionally high stick you in the eye during battles for the puck(or away from the puck if the ref was not looking). Lemieux was actually considered a dirty player who turtled when people came to fight him 90% of the time YEARS before that hit. That hit just cemented it

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03-20-2017, 07:09 PM
  #125
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Claude Lemieux was the kind of guy who would intentionally high stick you in the eye during battles for the puck(or away from the puck if the ref was not looking). Lemieux was actually considered a dirty player who turtled when people came to fight him 90% of the time YEARS before that hit. That hit just cemented it
What a complete load of hyperbolic crap. Show a link where he turtled outside of being sucker punched and one where he sticked a guy in the eye.

Btw I cheered for Detroit in those battles and was pissed off with what happened with Draper, but you'd think this board would beyond myths and legends.

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