HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Team USA threatens to skip women's hockey worlds in Michigan

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-15-2017, 01:41 PM
  #26
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 32,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason2020 View Post
When the womens world cup was in Canada team Usa and some others said we refuse to play on astro turf they sued etc the result is they got a lot of hate many said there acting like spoiled brats.
I dont understand your post. Seriously.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 01:43 PM
  #27
NCRanger
Bettman's Enemy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorstenFrings View Post
In soccer the US women's team actually made that argument when the brought in more revenue than the men's team, but getting paid a laughable fraction anyway. People were still just talking all over them anyway.
In one World Cup year, when the men's team had no qualifying.

Call me whatever. I actually follow the US women pretty closely. Having a soccer playing daughter, coaching her teams, and having the varsity girls soccer coach at her school being the twin sister of one of the US goaltenders, makes me interested.

Actually traveled to Canada in 2015 to see a game.

All that said, I think the soccer players' argument is bunk. I don't disagree that funding can be rearranged in some way, but the overall pay argument isn't something I agree with.

NCRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 01:45 PM
  #28
NCRanger
Bettman's Enemy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason2020 View Post
When the womens world cup was in Canada team Usa and some others said we refuse to play on astro turf they sued etc the result is they got a lot of hate many said there acting like spoiled brats.
This was a time when the women soccer players were 100% correct and FIFA was 100% wrong.

There was no reason that tournament shouldn't have been played on grass.

NCRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 01:45 PM
  #29
Inkling
Proud to be a Mammal
 
Inkling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason2020 View Post
When the womens world cup was in Canada team Usa and some others said we refuse to play on astro turf they sued etc the result is they got a lot of hate many said there acting like spoiled brats.
Didn't really effect them though, the World Cup went on and by all measures was a big success.

Inkling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 01:47 PM
  #30
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 32,353
vCash: 500
Oh it was a soccer point. I was really wondering what Astroturf could mean in a hockey context.

Carry on.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 01:48 PM
  #31
Inkling
Proud to be a Mammal
 
Inkling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCRanger View Post
This was a time when the women soccer players were 100% correct and FIFA was 100% wrong.

There was no reason that tournament shouldn't have been played on grass.
Don't come to Canada then with the World Cup. Our men's team plays on artificial turf. Have fun in Zimbabwe, which was the only other bidder.

Inkling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:13 PM
  #32
TorstenFrings
lebenslang grünweiss
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bremen
Country: Germany
Posts: 6,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCRanger View Post
In one World Cup year, when the men's team had no qualifying.
I don't even agree with the revenue argument, you brought it up and now you are explaining why it doesn't apply.
Even over a longer time period the revenue gap is not proportional to the wage gap, so it remains ******** either way.

TorstenFrings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:21 PM
  #33
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 66,697
vCash: 500

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:23 PM
  #34
Jussi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The List Of Jericho
Country: Finland
Posts: 56,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkhawk View Post
The Plymout ice arena seats 3,500 (4300 with standing room). You can buy a tournament package for $155, and a single game (except US) for $10, or US games for $25. The entire ticket sales for the tournament will be under $500,000. There is probably no television package. After expenses, i wouldn't be surprised if US Hockey comes out of the tournament in the red. It's a tough issue.
I believe IIHF covers the losses for the organizers of all the tournaments that are not the men's top level World Championship and U-20 WJC (possibly U-18 either). I vaguely remeber now former boss of Finnish hockey fed Kalervo Kummola saying this during an intermission at one of the Worlds years back. That's where the spend the revenue from those tournaments that make money.

Jussi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:24 PM
  #35
NCRanger
Bettman's Enemy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
Don't come to Canada then with the World Cup. Our men's team plays on artificial turf. Have fun in Zimbabwe, which was the only other bidder.
Hey, my family and me had fun in Canada the week we were up there. Enjoyed Ottawa especially. Would like to go back and see more than just Byward Market and Parliament.

From a soccer perspective though, soccer is better on grass .

NCRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:30 PM
  #36
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 17,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
Doesn't address paying the women's national team. However as a point of interest: the NTDP funding from USA Hockey is (or at least was) fully covered by the NHL. According to statements by USA Hockey a few years ago when the NTDP program cost was $2.7m. So the NTDP is effectively cost neutral.

mouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:31 PM
  #37
JacketsFanWest
Registered User
 
JacketsFanWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 View Post
That quote has nothing to do with what I am asking. They spend 3.5 million on the USNDP to play in the USHL. That's not the Men's national team
Technically, players in the USNDP players aren't getting paid either. But I doubt ticket sales make up the 3.5 million.

USA Hockey is investing in developing male hockey players and the same isn't being invested in women. However, to be fair, USA Hockey should have a USNDP for U20 players for women.

The difference with adult male vs female national team players is that women cannot earn a living playing professional hockey.

I see two issues here - the lack of funding for girls' youth hockey and the fact that the national team players have to find a way to support themselves playing hockey. Sponsorships might be the better way to address the latter issue.

JacketsFanWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 02:55 PM
  #38
DoyleG
Mr. Reality
 
DoyleG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: YEG--->YYJ
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,112
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorstenFrings View Post
I don't even agree with the revenue argument, you brought it up and now you are explaining why it doesn't apply.
Even over a longer time period the revenue gap is not proportional to the wage gap, so it remains ******** either way.
The problem with his explanation is that it doesn't take into that the situations itself.

The USWNST is run far more as a club side rather than a national team in the traditional sense. The women's players get contracts that require the USSF to schedule a regular number of friendlies for them to play, even if their opponents are nothing more than tomato cans. The women's team also gets a set amount per ticket as additional revenue plus other bonuses. This doesn't even count that those playing in the NWSL get part of their salary covered as well by the USSF.

US Hockey is rather different where they only get paid 6 months out of every Olympic cycle, and that can be easily rectified. They don't spend much on the NT programs other than on development, so it shouldn't be hard to move some funds to provide support during the off season.

DoyleG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 03:08 PM
  #39
TorstenFrings
lebenslang grünweiss
 
TorstenFrings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bremen
Country: Germany
Posts: 6,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoyleG View Post
The problem with his explanation is that it doesn't take into that the situations itself.

The USWNST is run far more as a club side rather than a national team in the traditional sense. The women's players get contracts that require the USSF to schedule a regular number of friendlies for them to play, even if their opponents are nothing more than tomato cans. The women's team also gets a set amount per ticket as additional revenue plus other bonuses. This doesn't even count that those playing in the NWSL get part of their salary covered as well by the USSF.

US Hockey is rather different where they only get paid 6 months out of every Olympic cycle, and that can be easily rectified. They don't spend much on the NT programs other than on development, so it shouldn't be hard to move some funds to provide support during the off season.
Thanks for the comparison. I do admit I can't speak to the organizational aspect of US Women's hockey, I don't know anything about it and I did not make the US soccer comparison in the first place (just happen to have strong opinions about women's soccer ).

TorstenFrings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 03:19 PM
  #40
Inkling
Proud to be a Mammal
 
Inkling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCRanger View Post
Hey, my family and me had fun in Canada the week we were up there. Enjoyed Ottawa especially. Would like to go back and see more than just Byward Market and Parliament.

From a soccer perspective though, soccer is better on grass .
My comment was more directed at FIFA or the players wanting to come to hold a World Cup in Canada but I'm glad you had a good time. There were huge numbers of travelling US fans up here during the World Cup; people often underestimate how popular the US women's team is with American fans. I don't think anyone would disagree that soccer is much much better on real grass. Unfortunately between our climate and the economics of soccer in Canada, large stadiums suitable for the World Cup are almost exclusively mixed use with CFL football and use the carpet.

Getting back on topic, Hilary Knight is about to be interviewed on TSN690, should be interesting getting her perspective.

Inkling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 05:44 PM
  #41
theaub
34-38-61-10-13-15
 
theaub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,337
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
Don't come to Canada then with the World Cup. Our men's team plays on artificial turf. Have fun in Zimbabwe, which was the only other bidder.
Hell, Zimbabwe actually pulled out before the bidding finished, so there were zero other bidders. Perhaps the US should have bid to host if their players were being so aggrieved? But it was just a test run for 2026 to be on turf so meh

As for the topic at hand, this does seem a hell of a lot more open and shut than the comparable soccer issue. Wouldn't be surprised to see a compromise in the next couple weeks, I'd assume a very decent sized portion of the US hockey community had absolutely no idea how the WNT pay was structured.

theaub is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 06:48 PM
  #42
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,067
vCash: 500
The women will fold before the WC. They (women's hockey) needs to do a better job marketing themselves. USHL governing body is basically another evil Bettman. The way the structure is set up, it benefits the Bettmans

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 08:29 PM
  #43
slewfoot7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5
vCash: 500
The players say they "deserve" this and that because they are expected to stay in shape and play hockey. So, working out and playing a game. Any adult working a 9-5 job knows life isn't fair, and you are often under paid and under appreciated. No one hands you ice time, grades, or a pay check without earning it. I'm guessing we all believe we deserve more, but what we get, we earn. I need to hear a reason from the players, other than "It's not fair " for why they have earned their requests. And no, winning a gold medal doesn't count. I'd be willing to bet a gold medal winning curler has a day job and does not get pregnancy benefits.

P.S The real issue is that girls don't support girls the way guys support guys. There are more than enough women and girls in this country that if they showed up to a women's game, the way Joe Schmoe down the street has had season tickets to the local mens college team every year for 10 years, there would be no funding issue.

slewfoot7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 08:33 PM
  #44
dechire
Janmark Enthusiast
 
dechire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: inconnu
Posts: 13,076
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by slewfoot7 View Post
I need to hear a reason from the players, other than "It's not fair " for why they have earned their requests.
How about that they are expected to perform a job without being paid for it? That seems like a pretty good reason. Not "Oh we're not getting paid enough and we want more." They are unpaid for 42 out of 48 months. Would you sign on for that ?

dechire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 08:37 PM
  #45
slewfoot7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5
vCash: 500
I work anywhere from 8-11 hours a day 5 days a week to earn my living wage. What do they do during those 42 months that takes up 8+ hours a day?

I honestly kind of find it offensive they think they deserve this long list of demands because they stay in shape and play hockey, but bring in no money. I work long hours for my living wage and health benefits. I also actually help my company make money. I spoke with someone at work about this, who is a huge hockey fan and he wasn't even aware there was a women's world championship.


Last edited by slewfoot7: 03-15-2017 at 08:42 PM.
slewfoot7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 08:38 PM
  #46
dechire
Janmark Enthusiast
 
dechire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: inconnu
Posts: 13,076
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by slewfoot7 View Post
I work anywhere from 8-11 hours a day 5 days a week to earn my living wage. What do they do during those 42 months that takes up 8+ hours a day?
Well, for example, maybe perhaps this tournament they're boycotting.

dechire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 08:55 PM
  #47
Gigantor The Goalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New London
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slewfoot7 View Post
The players say they "deserve" this and that because they are expected to stay in shape and play hockey. So, working out and playing a game. Any adult working a 9-5 job knows life isn't fair, and you are often under paid and under appreciated. No one hands you ice time, grades, or a pay check without earning it. I'm guessing we all believe we deserve more, but what we get, we earn. I need to hear a reason from the players, other than "It's not fair " for why they have earned their requests. And no, winning a gold medal doesn't count. I'd be willing to bet a gold medal winning curler has a day job and does not get pregnancy benefits.

P.S The real issue is that girls don't support girls the way guys support guys. There are more than enough women and girls in this country that if they showed up to a women's game, the way Joe Schmoe down the street has had season tickets to the local mens college team every year for 10 years, there would be no funding issue.
Great 1st or 2nd post. So you don't believe that the players deserve to be paid properly for their effort and results. You show no understanding for how the players are actually living. They do work those jobs along with training like pro athletes. There's a reason Noora Raty was going to retire after Sochi because she couldn't be at the top of her game if she had to work a regular job and train like a pro.

The issue is not women failing to support women. It's that women don't know about these games because USAH(And pretty much any sports body in charge of marketing the women's game) is absolutely terrible at marketing. Not to mention the mainstream sports media has no interest in the women's game unless there's something controversial going on. It's complete hypocrisy to say the players aren't doing enough to market themselves when it's everyone else's job to. Sidney Crosby doesn't market himself, all his sponsors, the NHL and the Penguins do.

It's ridiculous because study's show that if you market the game people will come and watch. USAH has all the resources to properly market the team but they don't. They do the bare minimum and reap all the rewards that come with it.

They aren't asking for much either. All they want is to have their equipment paid for, a proper wage so they can take time off work to train for the WHC to stay in shape, funding so that there's a development program identical to the men's NDTP, and lastly MARKETING. Get USAH to get off their lazy behinds and actually grow the sport.

As an aside Dani Rylan (NWHL commish) is really losing the publicity war. No comment on this situation and mishandling of the NWHL. The CWHL Commish actually came out supporting the players.

Gigantor The Goalie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 08:58 PM
  #48
TOGuy14
Registered User
 
TOGuy14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,676
vCash: 500
It is a bit of an odd argument, they want "equal pay, equal treatment" but the reason they make no money for the 42 months out of every 48 or whatever it is, is because nobody really pays to watch women's hockey.

The men don't get a monthly stipend from US Hockey, because they make millions, because people pay to watch them. The NWHL is on the verge of going bankrupt in season two of existence.

This would be like every every D list actor/actress going on strike simultaneously because they don't get paid Brad Pitt money to be in films. Nobody watches movies because of them, they are just filler

TOGuy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 09:06 PM
  #49
dechire
Janmark Enthusiast
 
dechire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: inconnu
Posts: 13,076
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
It is a bit of an odd argument, they want "equal pay, equal treatment" but the reason they make no money for the 42 months out of every 48 or whatever it is, is because nobody really pays to watch women's hockey.

The men don't get a monthly stipend from US Hockey, because they make millions, because people pay to watch them. The NWHL is on the verge of going bankrupt in season two of existence.

This would be like every every D list actor/actress going on strike simultaneously because they don't get paid Brad Pitt money to be in films. Nobody watches movies because of them, they are just filler
Literally nowhere do they demand equal pay. I feel like multiple people in this thread haven't even read the article.

dechire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2017, 09:18 PM
  #50
kabidjan18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Country: United States
Posts: 2,041
vCash: 500
I never like delineating a "good guy" and a "bad guy" in labor and contract disputes. The labor side will always try to paint the employers as unfair or unreasonable, the employers will always try to paint the laborers as lazy or unrealistic. Both sides are doing their best to serve their own interests, and the result will be played out at the negotiating table and not the court of public opinion.

However, I would like to praise Dunkin Donuts. They have been an NWHL sponsor since the start and after the 50% pay cut was announced they quickly volunteered $50,000 to go to player salaries, reducing the pay cut to 38%. Many who support equality have no means to put our money where our mouths are. It is far too rare, but commendable when those who do have the means do put forth the money for a good cause.

kabidjan18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.