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Old
03-17-2017, 09:51 PM
  #51
McCanovin
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Originally Posted by Draiskull View Post
6yr x 4M = 24M over 6yrs
vs
2.75 x 2yr bridge + 4yrs x 5M = 25.5M over 6yrs

Option B is a bit more but gives us cap flexibility to sign McDavid.

Give a bridge deal to Benning on top and we can retain Maroon for a couple more yrs instead of being forced to let him walk.
Option B could end up looking like PK Subban scenario. If we could lock up Nurse under 4M long term we do it. Nurse at this point is part of the core.

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03-17-2017, 09:56 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draiskull View Post
6yr x 4M = 24M over 6yrs
vs
2.75 x 2yr bridge + 4yrs x 5M = 25.5M over 6yrs

Option B is a bit more but gives us cap flexibility to sign McDavid.

Give a bridge deal to Benning on top and we can retain Maroon for a couple more yrs instead of being forced to let him walk.
I definitely think we should the bridge route with Benning.

With Nurse I'm not so sure. If he's a safe bet to be a bargain at a Klef contract, then we should do the Klef contract ASAP and worry about the cap later. I know that there is a cap issue, but if we do a bridge contract we just delay that issue and make it worse later. Maybe Nurse's bridge deal makes it easier to deal with the raises for McDavid and Drai, but what about Talbot's raise in the period after Nurse's bridge? Puljujarvi's?

I also have a hard time believing that we can't afford a 4 million deal for Nurse even with McDavid's and Drai's new deals. We'd have Fayne and Ference off the books. We would be moving away from cap hits like Hendricks. We have some good value deals like Klef and Larsson. We must have some short term leeway.

Or maybe it comes to having to deal Ebs or RNH. If that's coming anyway, speeding it up to allow us for a cheap future of Nurse could be worth it.

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03-17-2017, 09:57 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Option B could end up looking like PK Subban scenario. If we could lock up Nurse under 4M long term we do it. Nurse at this point is part of the core.
Subban is an offensive Dman who was face of that franchise. Pretty sure Nurse does not fit that bill.
2018 is just a crunch year for the Oil. Even a 1 yr bridge deal would get them past that crunch and would make Nurse a RFA when Pouliot and Eberle deals expire freeing up 10M.
If there is no cap crunch or if we are walking away from Maroon then yeh.. Lock Nurse up.

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03-17-2017, 10:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Option B could end up looking like PK Subban scenario. If we could lock up Nurse under 4M long term we do it. Nurse at this point is part of the core.
The chance of Nurse suddenly becoming one of the league's premier offence-generating Dmen over the next couple years is very small.

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03-17-2017, 10:03 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Draiskull View Post
Subban is an offensive Dman who was face of that franchise. Pretty sure Nurse does not fit that bill.
2018 is just a crunch year for the Oil. Even a 1 yr bridge deal would get them past that crunch and would make Nurse a RFA when Pouliot and Eberle deals expire freeing up 10M.
If there is no cap crunch or if we are walking away from Maroon then yeh.. Lock Nurse up.
Subban was still unknown when the Habs gave him the bridge. As for 10M relieved from letting go Ebs+Pou, we still have to replace them. We might luck in finding alternatives, we might not.

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03-17-2017, 10:04 PM
  #56
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I love Nurse, guy is a beauty. Has so much room to grow and improve still. I have no idea what he will eventually become but I wouldn't mind signing him long-term.

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Old
03-17-2017, 10:06 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
The chance of Nurse suddenly becoming one of the league's premier offence-generating Dmen over the next couple years is very small.
Subban makes 9M. I definitely don't see Nurse making that how much. But I could see him asking for 6M if he reaches anywhere near Klef level now once he finishes the bridge contract. 4M and 6M is a significant differences in 3 years time with pretty much all our core players are off their ELCs

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03-17-2017, 10:08 PM
  #58
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Just because you are not "locking them up" doesnt mean they cant still be part of your future. Locking up Hall didnt make him an Oiler for life. There is nothing wrong with bridge deals.
Bingo.

Bridge deals provide flexibility. In a league with guaranteed contracts they make a lot of sense at times.

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03-17-2017, 10:08 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Subban was still unknown when the Habs gave him the bridge. As for 10M relieved from letting go Ebs+Pou, we still have to replace them. We might luck in finding alternatives, we might not.
Unknown? He was playing big minutes on their top pairing for 2 years leading up to the contract both seasons of which he scored near 40 points. Nurse hasn't even played a full NHL season yet and has a career high of 10 points playing pretty soft minutes.

He has potential for sure but he's still very raw. I don't think there's much of a threat of a huge 3rd contract if they bridge him.
He'll never put up the big point totals IMO to warrant such a big raise. He's never going to get the PP time to get those higher point totals. He'll be a physical shutdown Dman, a key part of the PK who can chip in some points every now and then so I don't see him being a big money guy at least not for a while. Nothing wrong with giving Nurse a bridge contract.

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03-17-2017, 10:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Subban was still unknown when the Habs gave him the bridge. As for 10M relieved from letting go Ebs+Pou, we still have to replace them. We might luck in finding alternatives, we might not.
Subban had 2 decent seasons under his belt where he had 200 shots on goal each season and had established himself as a PPQB. Nurse is nowhere near that. During his 2yr bridge deal season he really took off. Nurse would certainly not be in Norris talks anytime soon. Even after bridge deals he would not be in a position to command much more than 5M.. Defensive Dmen just dont get that money.

as for the 10M replacements.. Guys like Caggiula and Slepy can replace that at much lower hit.

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03-17-2017, 10:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Subban makes 9M. I definitely don't see Nurse making that how much. But I could see him asking for 6M if he reaches anywhere near Klef level now once he finishes the bridge contract. 4M and 6M is a significant differences in 3 years time with pretty much all our core players are off their ELCs
I could see klefbom getting4.75M or even what Lindholm got, but Klefbom would not have gotten 6M even after scoring all these goals next year as a RFA.

in any case there is way too much uncertainty as to what the cap situation would be in 2018.

Right now we have 40M committed to 8 players for 2018. If Draisait gets his 6M and Pulju is getting his bonuses we are up to 50M with 10 players and still needing to sign McDavid and co.
And by co I mean atleast 10 other NHLers.

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03-17-2017, 10:25 PM
  #62
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He's getting better every game. Mean dude.

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03-17-2017, 10:31 PM
  #63
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He's getting better every game. Mean dude.
played over 20mins vs DAL and is a +7 these last 2 games.

I think he is picking things up from Larsson defensively and seems to be getting better offensively.

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03-17-2017, 11:47 PM
  #64
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Nurse is very exciting, at only 22 he is showing promising potential on each end of the ice. He skates like the wind, has a nasty streak, rarely puts himself out of position to make big hits, isn't afraid to drive guys in the corners and his board play is fantastic among other positives.

I'm a fan, can't wait to see him grow into his body and skillset. Once he learns the game at the NHL level things will really pick up.

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03-18-2017, 12:26 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draiskull View Post
played over 20mins vs DAL and is a +7 these last 2 games.

I think he is picking things up from Larsson defensively and seems to be getting better offensively.
That's one unexpected knock on benefit of the Oilers acquiring Larsson - if he can help Nurse learn to play a 'controlled nasty' game, it's a major bonus for the team.

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03-18-2017, 01:20 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Quality McOil View Post
Nurse is very exciting, at only 22 he is showing promising potential on each end of the ice. He skates like the wind, has a nasty streak, rarely puts himself out of position to make big hits, isn't afraid to drive guys in the corners and his board play is fantastic among other positives.

I'm a fan, can't wait to see him grow into his body and skillset. Once he learns the game at the NHL level things will really pick up.
I am very excited about Darnell, his skill set and potential. He's at a pace for 10 goals and 20 points on a 82 game season with out PP time. I fell like Caleb is similar in skill set, a bit smaller, a bit less nasty but more natural offensively. Our left port has the potential to be ridiculously fast with, Klef, Nurse and probably Caleb Jones in the future.

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03-18-2017, 01:25 AM
  #67
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It's nice to see that he isn't getting the rookie treatment from the Refs like he was last season. Seemed like he got more game management type calls against him than any other player last year.

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03-18-2017, 02:25 AM
  #68
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Really made some fantastic defensive plays last night. Watching him live its incredible how quick he can close off what looks like a clear breakaway or odd man rush going the other way. His reach and skating is something special to watch and his confidence with the puck is growing. If his shot and playmaking continues to improve then he has a lot of untapped offensive upside. He enters the zone easier than anyone on the team not named McDavid with the puck and is always a threat to join the rush.

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03-18-2017, 03:20 AM
  #69
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That's one unexpected knock on benefit of the Oilers acquiring Larsson - if he can help Nurse learn to play a 'controlled nasty' game, it's a major bonus for the team.
Sorry if this is off-topic, but when it comes to Larsson specifically, I was pleasantly surprised at how nasty he is in the corners and the front of the net. I was expecting a defensive D-man in the mold of Vlasic, but I'd say Larsson has much more edge to his game.

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03-18-2017, 03:58 AM
  #70
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Nurse was in way over his head last season, but has progressed to being pretty good in a 3rd pair role against softer comp He's doing fine but people see some results against the bottom lines and immediately project that to being ready for top 6 guys - not the case as we saw with Davidson this season and Benning lately. Defense is a hard position and team will isolate weaknesses and attack until you force them to change focus. 300 games is what most guys need before you see their complete upside and squeeze out the errors, and Nurse is probably not an exception.
He was, but watching him I never doubted he had talent to play at that level. The nuances I figured would take time given how explosive he was. He reminded me of Russell Westbrook (NBA star), early in his career; more athletic than everybody else in his position, but had the drive to correct his faults. I don't even think 3rd pair role and soft comp is his only deployment as it's been a mixed bag; they start him of on the 3rd pairing and then he usually obliterates the comp, then they put him against top comp and then he dummies them. See guys like Marchand, Toews, Marner; anybody with speed, skill, smarts, Nurse has the ability to eliminate them.

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03-18-2017, 12:36 PM
  #71
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Bingo.

Bridge deals provide flexibility. In a league with guaranteed contracts they make a lot of sense at times.
There is a ton wrong with bridge deals. Namely they blow up in your face a majority of the time. Bridge deals work with depth players. They are a horrible choice with good players

Subbans deal was very bad choice the second they bridged him. They shot themselves in the foot and had to pay 9m. They again did same stupid thing with Galchenyuk and now will have to pay way more.

Oilers rightfully did not bridge Hall and got him on a mega steal 6 mil contract. Next they smartly did not bridge Klefbom and signed him long term after 80 games. Anyone here wanna bet what the deal for Klefbom would be had we bridged him. I wonder what a 22 year old top pairing D who could score 15 goals this year would be asking. 5 mil? thatd be a starting point. You gotta bet hes using istos/Lindholms deal as a base. Maybe 5.5M?

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03-18-2017, 12:41 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Draiskull View Post
I could see klefbom getting4.75M or even what Lindholm got, but Klefbom would not have gotten 6M even after scoring all these goals next year as a RFA.
Klefbom would legit have the worst agent in the league if all he got was 4.75 after this year. A modest raise from what he already got when he was signed 80 games into the year. Klefbom is amongst goal scoring leaders for D (6th overall, 2nd place has 16). Not to mention an agent can easily show the last 2 years with Klefbom and without him in line up (by their records) and go "Ok look here, their record is good with Klefbom in 2016, **** without him, the good again with him in 2017. Oh and hes scoring a ton of goals and on your top pairing". No way an agent is settling for a slight pay bump after this year

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03-18-2017, 01:04 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Subban was still unknown when the Habs gave him the bridge. As for 10M relieved from letting go Ebs+Pou, we still have to replace them. We might luck in finding alternatives, we might not.
He was in the middle of his Norris-winning season after posting up seasons with 38 and 36 points respectively.

Nobody thought it was a good bridge deal except for Montreal.

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03-18-2017, 01:14 PM
  #74
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He was in the middle of his Norris-winning season after posting up seasons with 38 and 36 points respectively.

Nobody thought it was a good bridge deal except for Montreal.
Bingo. Everyone knew a bridge deal was bad. But we just didnt know how bad it was going to be

Bridge deals are instinctively bad because you forgo a contract in the years a player is just developing, in order to delay signing one when a player is statistically in the peak and prime of their career

Its basically done only by the most risk adverse GMs so they have the defense of "well I bridged him and it messed up but I tried and was safe lulz "

Unfortuantly it takes so balls to make the right move and sign players long term for lower $ amounts and essentially pay for expected play. Tambo faced big backlash over Hall deal (which essentially sent the market) and Chiarelli faced backlash for Klefbom deal. Id like to hear the critics now. Even the long term deals that didnt work out (RNH, Ebs), still sort of did. Had you bridged them and delayed contracts for 3 years, in those 3 years comparable deals are going up and increasing. So youd still have to sign them for 5.5 mil 3 years later.

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03-18-2017, 02:33 PM
  #75
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Bingo. Everyone knew a bridge deal was bad. But we just didnt know how bad it was going to be

Bridge deals are instinctively bad because you forgo a contract in the years a player is just developing, in order to delay signing one when a player is statistically in the peak and prime of their career

Its basically done only by the most risk adverse GMs so they have the defense of "well I bridged him and it messed up but I tried and was safe lulz "

Unfortuantly it takes so balls to make the right move and sign players long term for lower $ amounts and essentially pay for expected play. Tambo faced big backlash over Hall deal (which essentially sent the market) and Chiarelli faced backlash for Klefbom deal. Id like to hear the critics now. Even the long term deals that didnt work out (RNH, Ebs), still sort of did. Had you bridged them and delayed contracts for 3 years, in those 3 years comparable deals are going up and increasing. So youd still have to sign them for 5.5 mil 3 years later.
It works both ways. People love to bring up the Subban deal as an example that bridges don't work.

How about Matt Duchene? Signed a 2 year deal worth 3.5 per and then signed a 5 year deal at 6 per. Avs ended up getting an extra two years of Duchene at a bargain deal and then 5 years at the same amount as the guys you mentioned who weren't bridged.

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