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Old
03-19-2017, 04:55 PM
  #101
Aceboogie
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Originally Posted by Zaddy Zads View Post
We'll see, but Nurse's shot needs a ton of improvement and he has never really had the offensive instincts to be a big point producer. I will say that he seems to have improved offensively this year, reading the play in the O zone better, knowing when to jump up etc, but so far it hasn't translated in a lot of points.
Nurse has shown numerous times he knows when to jump up. Ive seen several high danger chances from him from jumping down into the slot at the right time to get a pass. Agreed that his shot will have to improve though

Nurse wont get many points from leading a rush and being a playmaker, or carrying puck in the O-zone. But Nurse WILL get points from being so good at controlled zone exits in which he carries the puck out with surprising ease. His ability to start a rush is almost the best on our D core. He rarely throws it off the boards and out. So Nurse will rack up a good number of secondary assists from starting a rush, passing it off after his blue line and having forwards score off rush. Nurse will also pile up some points and goals from his ability to sneak behind forwards in the O zone and get shots off

Nurse already has 56 shots in 34 games. His 6.39 shots/60 ranks second only to Klefbom (who generates shots at an elite, top 10 level for D already). Shots per 60 over 6 is damn good. Consider this: for D over 500 mins- Nurse ranks 10th for shots/60. Hes the top 10: Trouba, Josi, Letang, Josi, Klefbom, Matheson, Chris Wideman (lol but shocklingly has a ton of shots), Ekblad, Hamilton, Burns. He averages 1.65 shots per game, which over 71 games would be 117 shots. 117 shots would rank him 12th in league, tied with Parayko. And hes doing that playing bottom pairing minutes

So Nurse is really good and slipping into great spots in offensive zone for one timers or shots. If he improves his shot and continues to do this, I dont think 15 goals is that far fetched. He generates a whack of shots

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03-19-2017, 06:06 PM
  #102
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You know what's scary about Nurse? He's listed as 6-4/213 and he still looks pretty skinny. Could probably add another 20-25 lbs and still keep most of his quickness. He will be one scary dude to play against in 3 or 4 years - pair him with Larsson - oh man ouch.

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03-19-2017, 06:54 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
Nurse has shown numerous times he knows when to jump up. Ive seen several high danger chances from him from jumping down into the slot at the right time to get a pass[/B]. Agreed that his shot will have to improve though
Yes, as I said, he has shown improvement in that area this year and that is encouraging, but he really needs to improve his shot for him to take advantage of that. However, by sheer virtue of his shot volume he is bound to get a number of goals each year from all those shot attempts alone. In fact I think most of his goals at the NHL level so far has been weak shots that somehow have found a way into the net.

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Nurse wont get many points from leading a rush and being a playmaker, or carrying puck in the O-zone. But Nurse WILL get points from being so good at controlled zone exits in which he carries the puck out with surprising ease. His ability to start a rush is almost the best on our D core. He rarely throws it off the boards and out. So Nurse will rack up a good number of secondary assists from starting a rush, passing it off after his blue line and having forwards score off rush. Nurse will also pile up some points and goals from his ability to sneak behind forwards in the O zone and get shots off
I can agree with this, but his decision making in the O zone is still quite lacking. Again, by sheer virtue of how often he is able to carry the puck up the ice he'll get a number of points every year but if he had better instincts offensively he could be a real dominant weapon but unfortunately so far he hasn't been able to generate much of his rushes, and the same was true of him in juniors.

It sounds like I'm really down on Nurse but I'm not, I think he'll be a good player and he has a really unique skillset but based on what he has shown me so far in his career I just don't think it's realistic for him to become a #1D and maybe not even a #2D, but that's okay, we have Klef and Lars looking very promising in that spot already and I think that's a good situation for Nurse to be in too.

Anyway, next year will be telling what kind of potential he has. Right now he's still figuring out the NHL as well as his own game.

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03-19-2017, 07:14 PM
  #104
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The love Nurse is getting right now is very much like the love Klefbom was getting when he entered the league.

Based on very little in a top 4 role and really not even truly dominating in a bottom pair role IMO.

Don't get me wrong, he has been good and seems to be getting better, but I would hesitant to label him ready to take regular top 4 minutes.

All signs do point up, just too early to be sure what he is outside of an acceptable bottom pairing guy or what his top end will be.

Surprised at how many are penciling Nurse in over Klefbom. I wonder if it is the same people who really liked Klefbom previously. Shiny new toy syndrome?

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03-19-2017, 07:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
The love Nurse is getting right now is very much like the love Klefbom was getting when he entered the league.

Based on very little in a top 4 role and really not even truly dominating in a bottom pair role IMO.

Don't get me wrong, he has been good and seems to be getting better, but I would hesitant to label him ready to take regular top 4 minutes.

All signs do point up, just too early to be sure what he is outside of an acceptable bottom pairing guy or what his top end will be.

Surprised at how many are penciling Nurse in over Klefbom. I wonder if it is the same people who really liked Klefbom previously. Shiny new toy syndrome?
This is a really weird comment considering that Klefbom has established himself solidly as a top 4 guy and in the option of most people besides you a top 2 guy.

Shiny new toy syndrome would be those who were gushing all over a guy like Marincin who impressed for 20 games and then had trouble cracking the AHL lineup for two season. Klefbom and Nurse both are highly touted players with great pedigree and leadership/work ethics.

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03-19-2017, 08:20 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
The love Nurse is getting right now is very much like the love Klefbom was getting when he entered the league.

Based on very little in a top 4 role and really not even truly dominating in a bottom pair role IMO.

Don't get me wrong, he has been good and seems to be getting better, but I would hesitant to label him ready to take regular top 4 minutes.

All signs do point up, just too early to be sure what he is outside of an acceptable bottom pairing guy or what his top end will be.

Surprised at how many are penciling Nurse in over Klefbom. I wonder if it is the same people who really liked Klefbom previously. Shiny new toy syndrome?
It's a combo of play and projected upside. The people that loved Klefbom 2 years ago seem more or less to be bang on. Some people need to wait 150 games or more before accepting a player is good. But nurse is a high drafted D with insane tools who did very well in OHL and wjc. Now he's doing that in nhl.

Nurse deserves a ton of love. A combo of tools and fact they are coming together. But we should also be aware he's playing easier minutes

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03-19-2017, 08:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Zaddy Zads View Post
Yes, as I said, he has shown improvement in that area this year and that is encouraging, but he really needs to improve his shot for him to take advantage of that. However, by sheer virtue of his shot volume he is bound to get a number of goals each year from all those shot attempts alone. In fact I think most of his goals at the NHL level so far has been weak shots that somehow have found a way into the net.



I can agree with this, but his decision making in the O zone is still quite lacking. Again, by sheer virtue of how often he is able to carry the puck up the ice he'll get a number of points every year but if he had better instincts offensively he could be a real dominant weapon but unfortunately so far he hasn't been able to generate much of his rushes, and the same was true of him in juniors.

It sounds like I'm really down on Nurse but I'm not, I think he'll be a good player and he has a really unique skillset but based on what he has shown me so far in his career I just don't think it's realistic for him to become a #1D and maybe not even a #2D, but that's okay, we have Klef and Lars looking very promising in that spot already and I think that's a good situation for Nurse to be in too.

Anyway, next year will be telling what kind of potential he has. Right now he's still figuring out the NHL as well as his own game.
Nurse has always struggled on the rush, even in junior he would just go wide and throw it backhand on net. But it's pretty clear whatever he's doing offensively is working. His shot generation is first pairing level. Mostly comes from knowing when to sneak behind forwards when we are in o zone. So if he improves his shot and keeps up his shot generation he'll bank a bunch of goals. 10 ES goals a year is pretty doable at his shot levels. Even with his shot now he'll score a bunch or get assists off rebounds. The sentiment (not held by you) that he's a low offense D is pretty off. He generates a ton of shots

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03-19-2017, 08:47 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
This is a really weird comment considering that Klefbom has established himself solidly as a top 4 guy and in the option of most people besides you a top 2 guy.

Shiny new toy syndrome would be those who were gushing all over a guy like Marincin who impressed for 20 games and then had trouble cracking the AHL lineup for two season. Klefbom and Nurse both are highly touted players with great pedigree and leadership/work ethics.
Most of a season doing well on a top pairing with Petry, while doing the bulk of the defensive work, and then making it into the top 4 of an Olympic team... Pretty impressive IMO. Oh and he hasn't been in the minors since the Oilers wouldn't let him partake in the World Cup (I think it was world cup) and instead sent him to the AHL playoffs. And only 28 games of one regular season in the minors since he got to the NHL level. So... yeah... not sure what yer talking about. Not important really either tho so keep on keeping on :-).

There are very few that I know who think Klefbom is a top 2 defender right now. Top 4 I agree with easily this year and getting better. I fully believe Klefbom will be a great 2/3 guy at least with even a decent chance to be a legit #1 moving forward with how far he has come and young he still is. But just as an example Sekera is our #2 guy and currently the better all around guy this season. Plus many wouldn't even call him a #2 guy around the league. More a 2/3.

Marc-Andre Bergeron played on a top pairing with Pronger. That didn't make him a number 2 guy.

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03-19-2017, 09:13 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Most of a season doing well on a top pairing with Petry, while doing the bulk of the defensive work, and then making it into the top 4 of an Olympic team... Pretty impressive IMO. Oh and he hasn't been in the minors since the Oilers wouldn't let him partake in the World Cup (I think it was world cup) and instead sent him to the AHL playoffs. And only 28 games of one regular season in the minors since he got to the NHL level. So... yeah... not sure what yer talking about. Not important really either tho so keep on keeping on :-).

There are very few that I know who think Klefbom is a top 2 defender right now. Top 4 I agree with easily this year and getting better. I fully believe Klefbom will be a great 2/3 guy at least with even a decent chance to be a legit #1 moving forward with how far he has come and young he still is. But just as an example Sekera is our #2 guy and currently the better all around guy this season. Plus many wouldn't even call him a #2 guy around the league. More a 2/3.

Marc-Andre Bergeron played on a top pairing with Pronger. That didn't make him a number 2 guy.
Coach thinks he's a top pairing, he's succeeding on a top pairing, our team is in playoffs with him as top pairing. There's no ifs ands or buts he's a top pairing D

If sekera was better he'd be getting the ice time over klefbom

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03-19-2017, 09:26 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
Coach thinks he's a top pairing, he's succeeding on a top pairing, our team is in playoffs with him as top pairing. There's no ifs ands or buts he's a top pairing D

If sekera was better he'd be getting the ice time over klefbom
Exactly. Some posters have always had an obvious bias against Klefbom, now they feel the need to do the same with Nurse.

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03-19-2017, 09:28 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Most of a season doing well on a top pairing with Petry, while doing the bulk of the defensive work, and then making it into the top 4 of an Olympic team... Pretty impressive IMO. Oh and he hasn't been in the minors since the Oilers wouldn't let him partake in the World Cup (I think it was world cup) and instead sent him to the AHL playoffs. And only 28 games of one regular season in the minors since he got to the NHL level. So... yeah... not sure what yer talking about. Not important really either tho so keep on keeping on :-).

There are very few that I know who think Klefbom is a top 2 defender right now. Top 4 I agree with easily this year and getting better. I fully believe Klefbom will be a great 2/3 guy at least with even a decent chance to be a legit #1 moving forward with how far he has come and young he still is. But just as an example Sekera is our #2 guy and currently the better all around guy this season. Plus many wouldn't even call him a #2 guy around the league. More a 2/3.

Marc-Andre Bergeron played on a top pairing with Pronger. That didn't make him a number 2 guy.
That you're trying to day it was Marincin who carried Petry says all anyone needs to know. Guy has been struggling to crack the Leafs lineup, the worst D line up in the league for two seasons. He doesn't even deserve to mentioned in the same breath as Klefbom or Nurse

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03-19-2017, 09:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Most of a season doing well on a top pairing with Petry, while doing the bulk of the defensive work, and then making it into the top 4 of an Olympic team... Pretty impressive IMO. Oh and he hasn't been in the minors since the Oilers wouldn't let him partake in the World Cup (I think it was world cup) and instead sent him to the AHL playoffs. And only 28 games of one regular season in the minors since he got to the NHL level. So... yeah... not sure what yer talking about. Not important really either tho so keep on keeping on :-).

There are very few that I know who think Klefbom is a top 2 defender right now. Top 4 I agree with easily this year and getting better. I fully believe Klefbom will be a great 2/3 guy at least with even a decent chance to be a legit #1 moving forward with how far he has come and young he still is. But just as an example Sekera is our #2 guy and currently the better all around guy this season. Plus many wouldn't even call him a #2 guy around the league. More a 2/3.

Marc-Andre Bergeron played on a top pairing with Pronger. That didn't make him a number 2 guy.

Marincin was regressing badly here when he got sent down. He magically had a stint where he played good gap control. Once he failed to that properly he literally had no part in his game that is desirable...physical, offense, net presence.

He was sent to the AHL playoffs and after a few games got benched there also cuz he was terrible. Oilers gave him an ultimatum in the summer to work on his size and boardplay/net presence. He didn't.

In TO they played him on the top line cuz they were purposely tanking. But for a brief stint yet again..he found away to play decent gap. There were articles written on how when he was on the ice he disrupted ozone entries successfully. But like much Edm he lost his brain yet again and being stubborn or just plain daft...he failed to do things in the offseason to better his game like put on weight or get more physical.
Now that they are competitive...no coincidence he is back in the minors. He brings nothing to the table

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03-19-2017, 10:09 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Aceboogie View Post
Nurse has always struggled on the rush, even in junior he would just go wide and throw it backhand on net. But it's pretty clear whatever he's doing offensively is working. His shot generation is first pairing level. Mostly comes from knowing when to sneak behind forwards when we are in o zone. So if he improves his shot and keeps up his shot generation he'll bank a bunch of goals. 10 ES goals a year is pretty doable at his shot levels. Even with his shot now he'll score a bunch or get assists off rebounds. The sentiment (not held by you) that he's a low offense D is pretty off. He generates a ton of shots
Ya. To add to this slightly, I've seen Nurse transforming his rush game to a more meaningful level. Looks to me like he's put a bunch of effort into that aspect. Doesn't seem so random now as it did before....if that makes any sense.

I'm a big Nurse fan who see's his potential as very high given his tools. He seems to be able to adapt very quickly. He's smarter than some may believe. Not to mention he just kinda stepped right on into his role after missing how many games. That says a ton on his potential if his disposition is like that.

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03-19-2017, 10:12 PM
  #114
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yeah for sure I don't think Marincin was really ever top level. He never pushed for offense and was never tasked to. One dimensional all the way, and a tier worse than Larsson at his best.

For Klef and Nurse, it's obvious that coaching and management sees potential for offense. That has made Klef open to criticism this season because when you stick your neck out to make plays you will get burned sometimes, but he is actually trending nicely to be an offensive force. They are doing the same with Nurse, but he's further behind than Klef so it's going to take time (and Klef hasn't really even put it all together quite yet either)

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03-19-2017, 10:19 PM
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yeah for sure I don't think Marincin was really ever top level. He never pushed for offense and was never tasked to. One dimensional all the way, and a tier worse than Larsson at his best.

For Klef and Nurse, it's obvious that coaching and management sees potential for offense. That has made Klef open to criticism this season because when you stick your neck out to make plays you will get burned sometimes, but he is actually trending nicely to be an offensive force. They are doing the same with Nurse, but he's further behind than Klef so it's going to take time (and Klef hasn't really even put it all together quite yet either)
Making the Playoffs will be another key piece to these 2 players development path. Seen it many times before.

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03-19-2017, 11:01 PM
  #116
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Sigh,

I have not followed Marincin since he left, but it's even more obvious others have not and are making stuff up in general, and even about his time while here to prove a point.

From what little I have heard he was one of Toronto's better defenders to start the year. That obviously didn't last but he has also been dealing with injuries which has taken him out of the line up as well.

He was never a healthy scratch in the AHL playoffs. That is just a rumor 100% fabricated from thin air. Marincin was actually reportedly both sick and injured in that situation and the playoffs in general.

I won't be responding to any more Marincin stuff in this thread. If this continues the way it has revisionists will have made him into the worst player in Oilers history. Instead of the Oilers best regularish (44 games) defender in terms of even strength goal differential in 2013/14 while playing the teams hardest quality of competition at age 21/22. Also had a background of being a PP quarterback and had solid junior scoring numbers. A very respectable second round pick that I think will most likely stick around the NHL.

And if I am wrong it won't bother me at all

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03-31-2017, 08:40 AM
  #117
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Nurse is going to be an absolute monster for us in 3 years time. i feel like he will start to shine once the playoffs start. im excited with his progress so far and his potential.

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03-31-2017, 09:34 AM
  #118
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Nurse is going to be an absolute monster for us in 3 years time. i feel like he will start to shine once the playoffs start. im excited with his progress so far and his potential.
Will most likely be our best dman and one of the top in the league.

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03-31-2017, 09:54 AM
  #119
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With his tendencies to jump up, I think we need someone like Hamonic more than a Barrie going forward. Benning just isnt ready to cover for Nurse. We need an upgraded version of Gryba.

Big, steady, shutdown RD

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03-31-2017, 10:01 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Zaddy Zads View Post
Yes, as I said, he has shown improvement in that area this year and that is encouraging, but he really needs to improve his shot for him to take advantage of that. However, by sheer virtue of his shot volume he is bound to get a number of goals each year from all those shot attempts alone. In fact I think most of his goals at the NHL level so far has been weak shots that somehow have found a way into the net.



I can agree with this, but his decision making in the O zone is still quite lacking. Again, by sheer virtue of how often he is able to carry the puck up the ice he'll get a number of points every year but if he had better instincts offensively he could be a real dominant weapon but unfortunately so far he hasn't been able to generate much of his rushes, and the same was true of him in juniors.

It sounds like I'm really down on Nurse but I'm not, I think he'll be a good player and he has a really unique skillset but based on what he has shown me so far in his career I just don't think it's realistic for him to become a #1D and maybe not even a #2D, but that's okay, we have Klef and Lars looking very promising in that spot already and I think that's a good situation for Nurse to be in too.

Anyway, next year will be telling what kind of potential he has. Right now he's still figuring out the NHL as well as his own game.

Nurse on the rush reminds me of a young Eric Brewer in terms of his skating, but far better defensively and far meaner.

Brewer went on a great career as a shutdown D... bulked up in his late twenties, slowed down and actually became a better player.

My point is that we really don't know what he's going to morph into as a man. He's still a boy in terms of his frame and the physical traits are very promising. Will be interesting to see him mature.

He also won the scholar award (or at least nominated?) in the OHL, so while I agree his offensive instincts are not much to speak of (mostly, go, go, go... oh, now what?!), I think he will learn a more controlled way to generate offense by using changes of pace, slowing down a bit when he gets space and better use of his teammates.

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03-31-2017, 10:05 AM
  #121
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Nurse needs to work on his shot IMO. even with his rushes he is not really a scoring threat. With the way our forwards like to overpass, Nurse can be producing like Klefa if he work on becoming a shooter. Doesnt even have to be slappers.

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03-31-2017, 10:12 AM
  #122
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03-31-2017, 10:15 AM
  #123
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thats a great example of where he needs to put it low and hard on net, he has poo going to the net for a rebound. I guarantee the coaches showed him that exact play and said the same thing. Hes going to be an absolute beast

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03-31-2017, 10:32 AM
  #124
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Nurse needs to work on his shot IMO. even with his rushes he is not really a scoring threat. With the way our forwards like to overpass, Nurse can be producing like Klefa if he work on becoming a shooter. Doesnt even have to be slappers.
Nurse shoots to score like junior players do (high glove, or high anywhere). Good offensive D in NHL shoot for tips and rebounds. Put the puck 13 inches of the ice right at the post. Right in tipping area, goalie will have to make a pad stop and kick out the rebound

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03-31-2017, 01:52 PM
  #125
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Will most likely be our best dman and one of the top in the league.
You're seeing more potential than I do. I think he looks to top out as a number 3, which is still pretty good. If he gets to number 2 I'll be overjoyed.

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