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Who's better: Wendel Clark or Milan Lucic?

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Old
03-16-2017, 11:50 PM
  #26
Kyle McMahon
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It's at least close, and most GM's would probably prefer the healthy and consistent career of Lucic. I really can't believe people are suggesting Clark was definitively better. Clark hit 50 points three times in his entire career, and finished minus-129. I love hits and fights as much as the next guy, but it came at a steep cost for Clark, who only played 70+ games in three years out of 15. Lucic in his younger days did much of the same stuff and stayed healthy and was not a defensive liability in the process.

Clark's 1994 season was by far the best of either player, I'll give him that.

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Old
03-17-2017, 03:26 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Suddenly, on the stronger 1993-94 Leafs, Clark scores 46 goals in 64 games (3rd NHL in GPG). I remember that season, thinking, 'Where did that come from?' I must say I thought he was kind of washed up before that. Clark also scored 19 playoff goals in the '93 and '94 runs combined.
He played on a one-line team with beast mode Doug Gilmour. Cheechoo style.

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Old
03-17-2017, 07:15 AM
  #28
MXD
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
It's at least close, and most GM's would probably prefer the healthy and consistent career of Lucic. I really can't believe people are suggesting Clark was definitively better. Clark hit 50 points three times in his entire career, and finished minus-129. I love hits and fights as much as the next guy, but it came at a steep cost for Clark, who only played 70+ games in three years out of 15. Lucic in his younger days did much of the same stuff and stayed healthy and was not a defensive liability in the process.

Clark's 1994 season was by far the best of either player, I'll give him that.
Because the heart prevails over the head.

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Old
03-17-2017, 09:07 PM
  #29
Canadiens1958
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Wendel Clark

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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'm pretty sure (like, 99% sure) that Lucic is quite a bit better as a hockey player than Wendel Clark was, all things considered.
Wendel Clark could skate. Lucic gets marks for trying to skate.

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03-17-2017, 09:13 PM
  #30
Big Phil
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Look, I know Clark was a fan favourite in Toronto, I mean, there were those select few that never liked Sundin for the reason that he replaced Clark, which was silly. That and the fact is the Leafs traded to get Clark back two times before he retired, and one of those times they gave up the right to draft Roberto Luongo.

The problem was he was hurt way too much. He was old when he was 25. You got worried about him on the ice because he played so hard and reckless but was sitting in the press box with injuries so often. That being said, give me a healthy Clark. He had the better shot, was more fearless was the better hitter and fighter and has two pretty darn good playoff runs himself.

Hands up if you think Lucic has no chance against Clark in a fight? Me too. There is one fight where Probert got the best of Clark and I think it is late 1980s or early 1990s. Other than that, I swear up and down I can't find a single clip of Clark losing a fight and he fought a lot and never picked his spots. Lucic you can say might pick his spots more. Look at Clark go after McSorley in 1993 without even hesitating once he hit Gilmour. You want that guy on your team.

I mean it's close, Clark was cut from the 1987 Canada Cup team and if we're being honest with ourselves we can say Lucic's name was flirted about for the 2014 Olympic team. But if health isn't an issue, I want Clark.

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Old
03-17-2017, 09:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Look, I know Clark was a fan favourite in Toronto, I mean, there were those select few that never liked Sundin for the reason that he replaced Clark, which was silly. That and the fact is the Leafs traded to get Clark back two times before he retired, and one of those times they gave up the right to draft Roberto Luongo.

The problem was he was hurt way too much. He was old when he was 25. You got worried about him on the ice because he played so hard and reckless but was sitting in the press box with injuries so often. That being said, give me a healthy Clark. He had the better shot, was more fearless was the better hitter and fighter and has two pretty darn good playoff runs himself.

Hands up if you think Lucic has no chance against Clark in a fight? Me too. There is one fight where Probert got the best of Clark and I think it is late 1980s or early 1990s. Other than that, I swear up and down I can't find a single clip of Clark losing a fight and he fought a lot and never picked his spots. Lucic you can say might pick his spots more. Look at Clark go after McSorley in 1993 without even hesitating once he hit Gilmour. You want that guy on your team.

I mean it's close, Clark was cut from the 1987 Canada Cup team and if we're being honest with ourselves we can say Lucic's name was flirted about for the 2014 Olympic team. But if health isn't an issue, I want Clark.
The thing is... Clark wasn't a guy to get random freak injuries. He got injured because he was playing like Wendel Clark. So I'm kindof afraid that a non-oft-injured Wendel Clark is simply.. Another player not named Wendel Clark.

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Old
03-17-2017, 11:46 PM
  #32
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Look out, Wendel -- Moose warning!! :


The good old days. Two rough and ready dudes goin' at it in open-ice and in the corners.

I love how Wendel Clark was like a wolverine and was fearless and ferocious. But geez, you do have to pick your spots sometimes when you're 5'-11'' (and was he really that tall? I doubt it). No wonder he missed, like, 50% of his career games.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:56 AM
  #33
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'm pretty sure (like, 99% sure) that Lucic is quite a bit better as a hockey player than Wendel Clark was, all things considered.
WHAT???

99.9% sure this is incorrect.

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Old
03-18-2017, 11:00 AM
  #34
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Look, I know Clark was a fan favourite in Toronto, I mean, there were those select few that never liked Sundin for the reason that he replaced Clark, which was silly. That and the fact is the Leafs traded to get Clark back two times before he retired, and one of those times they gave up the right to draft Roberto Luongo.

The problem was he was hurt way too much. He was old when he was 25. You got worried about him on the ice because he played so hard and reckless but was sitting in the press box with injuries so often. That being said, give me a healthy Clark. He had the better shot, was more fearless was the better hitter and fighter and has two pretty darn good playoff runs himself.

Hands up if you think Lucic has no chance against Clark in a fight? Me too. There is one fight where Probert got the best of Clark and I think it is late 1980s or early 1990s. Other than that, I swear up and down I can't find a single clip of Clark losing a fight and he fought a lot and never picked his spots. Lucic you can say might pick his spots more. Look at Clark go after McSorley in 1993 without even hesitating once he hit Gilmour. You want that guy on your team.

I mean it's close, Clark was cut from the 1987 Canada Cup team and if we're being honest with ourselves we can say Lucic's name was flirted about for the 2014 Olympic team. But if health isn't an issue, I want Clark.
Not to mention Lucic would "take the night off" more in a week than Clark did in his career.

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Old
03-18-2017, 02:00 PM
  #35
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Please ask your friend if there's even one thing Lucic is better at than Clark. I'm curious as to what he says.

I guess they're similar in terms of both being a***oles, but Clark was a much better player and fighter than Lucic.
Milan Lucic is a much better defensive player than Wendel Clark ever was. Clark was dreadful without the puck despite actually being drafted as a defenseman.

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03-18-2017, 11:44 PM
  #36
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Milan Lucic is a much better defensive player than Wendel Clark ever was. Clark was dreadful without the puck despite actually being drafted as a defenseman.
That's the other thing that's weird about Clark. He was trained and drafted as a defenseman, but then once he got to the NHL he was a one-dimensional sniper who couldn't pass well and had fairly low hockey-IQ. How does that make sense?

At the very least, you would expect a D-man turned forward to be passer/playmaker, not a sniper. Weird times.

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Old
03-19-2017, 12:45 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
That's the other thing that's weird about Clark. He was trained and drafted as a defenseman, but then once he got to the NHL he was a one-dimensional sniper who couldn't pass well and had fairly low hockey-IQ. How does that make sense?

At the very least, you would expect a D-man turned forward to be passer/playmaker, not a sniper. Weird times.
Yeah, the Leafs were in desperate need of Left Wingers at that time & so then Coach Dan Maloney decided to move him up from Defence... and yes, he did struggle to learn, adapt, over-compensating in flying around out there with reckless abandon that while endearing him to the fans, eventually took its toll on his body.... Gary Leeman, Clarks linemate on the Hound Line (both former Notre Dame Hounds out of Saskatchewan though Leeman originally from Toronto) in Toronto was another converted Defenceman, moved up to RW having been an All Star in Junior, named Top Player as a Defenceman when playing for Junior Team Canada.... Ballard had so dismantled & disabled the Leafs through the 60's & 70's that by the early 80's the cupboards were all but bare, wrecking what could have been decent talents in Leeman, Jim Benning, Fred Boimistruck & Wendal Clark amongst others. There were Wingers available in Drafts however, some told Toronto "dont pick me", not wanting to be part of the Ballard Circus and who could blame them? Not much to trade for decent Wingers either, hence the Leeman & later Clark conversions.

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03-19-2017, 08:21 PM
  #38
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Wendel could affect a game just by being in uniform. Didn't even have to be on the ice.

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Old
03-20-2017, 11:40 PM
  #39
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I think I take Wendel at their bests. Just so few players ever could impact a game like him. His shot is not mentioned enough as one of the filthiest of all time and had to be one of the most terrifying players ever for d-men going back for the puck on dump ins.

One huge negative for him though was his absolute tunnel vision when cutting across the blue line with the puck. No one had to respect his linemates presence because he was either letting go a bomb, or attacking the net like a maniac. Wonder the numbers he could have put up if he was able to thread some needles occasionally to his linemates.

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03-21-2017, 10:44 AM
  #40
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I would take Clark every day of the week.

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03-21-2017, 11:58 AM
  #41
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I'd take Clark as the better player.. obviously Lucic is going to have a better career by virtue of staying relatively healthy in comparison.

Clark could change a game in multiple ways back in the day and played the game HARD. Talk about sacrifice. The huge hits.. he'd go toe-to-toe with heavyweights while giving up 30-40 pounds and dust them.. it was crazy. And that wrist shot.. holy hell look out.

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Old
03-21-2017, 12:58 PM
  #42
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Seriously, has any memorable player had more missed games to injury through a career? Only 3 times in 15 seasons did Clark make it to 70+ games.

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Old
03-21-2017, 02:10 PM
  #43
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Close but Clark for me.

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Old
03-21-2017, 11:56 PM
  #44
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Over the past decade, I've come to terms with the fact that the player who was my hero growing up was not a great player - he was just the player I liked the most. He tends to be a polarizing player because just about everything he did, he was either excellent or poor at - excellent shot, excellent hitter, excellent fighter, excellent in the clutch, excellent heart, excellent leadership... poor hockey sense, poor creativity, poor passer, poor defensively, poor durability, poor discipline. His skating is about the only thing that was in between. He's taken a kicking in recent ATDs, finally falling down to 4th lines, where he will always belong.

I expected to come into this thread and read about how overrated Clark was/is, and how the newer, bigger, more durable Lucic, who had been an important part of two finals runs, had passed Clark by now. But I read this whole thread and it surprised me. It surprised me that there was this much respect for Clark in here, and it also surprised me that Lucic has begun to get his own peg knocked down a few rungs. What surprised me more was that you all made me a bit more of a believer in my childhood hero. I found myself reading this and saying "yeah, that's true! Good point!!"

Lucic does appear to be better "on paper". He has amassed better offensive seasons by now, was an equally devastating hitter with greater size, and was at least ok in most of the areas Clark was poor in. But I guess you just can't easily quantify Clark's clutch play, his leadership, how he inspired his team, how he went toe to toe with legitimate heavyweights and beat them. And I suspect that on a per-game basis he was a better producer too, even if he didn't put together as many good complete seasons as Lucic already has.

Lucic is that extremely rare player of this generation, the first guy you think of when you say you want a tough winger to play with your superstar center. A guy who can protect him and intimidate the opposition, not just a "big, strong" winger like a JVR, but a guy who is a 10/10 on the physical side. And still, with his prime coming to an end, it's looking like Clark will still go down as the more memorable/revered player, even after adjusting for the population sizes and bias levels of their respective fanbases.

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Old
03-22-2017, 02:19 AM
  #45
The Panther
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Well... that's true if you count entirely skipped seasons in rest (or golfing) for Lemieux.

But look at it this way: In each player's first 7 seasons, Clark played 333 games and Lemieux played 453. I guess after age 25, Lemieux wins... er, loses... (wins?).

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03-22-2017, 07:07 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Well... that's true if you count entirely skipped seasons in rest (or golfing) for Lemieux.

But look at it this way: In each player's first 7 seasons, Clark played 333 games and Lemieux played 453. I guess after age 25, Lemieux wins... er, loses... (wins?).
I actually didn't count Lemieux's retirement years as missed games. That said, I did all the math in my head, and rounded numbers off but it worked out to Clarky playing 66%, and Mario 63ish% of games. They're basically the same though.

Cancer... Technically not an injury but, same idea. The Look on Lemieux's face in that pic was so smug, I had to use it, lol.

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Old
03-22-2017, 07:11 AM
  #47
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Wendel Clark was waaaaaaaay better than Lucic, this should not be a debate

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