HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

what's up with Saku ?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-09-2006, 07:49 AM
  #101
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 18,774
vCash: 500
I'll weigh in on this discussion a bit...

If I were to put myself in Gainey's shoes right now, i'd start fielding offers for Koivu right now, it doesn't mean I would trade him, but I'd at least listen to what's being offered for his services.

I personally don't feel we can pay him more than 3mil a year, he's not a PPG player this year, nor has he ever been...we can't afford to pay Koivu like a 1st liner when he isn't...

I'm not opposed to trading Koivu, because at a certain point IMO, when you've invested alot in a player and have never reaped the rewards, it's time to go in a new direction, now that doesn't mean you give him away for nothing...

417 is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 08:16 AM
  #102
Phailak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
I have another comment to add. A lot of people that want Saks to go seem to want that because we haven't been a contender with him and they want a 1st line center. I doubt anyone on this board, even the most die hard Koivu hater can argue that he would be an amazing 2nd line center on a contender right? Well if you want Montreal to be a contender and Saks would be an amazing 2nd line center on a contender, why not keep him and wait for that 1st line center. You're not going to get a big 1st line center via trade with Koivu, he's worth more to Montreal than any other team. Either we draft one or we sign one. I don't think we have that center in our system so we need another few years to draft one. FA might supply one but UNTIL we do, Saks is definately a good fall back plan not too mention that if we do get one or WHEN, then we'll have a good 1-2 punch for the first time since Koivu came into the league and by definition be a contender.
BTW, this is not how I feel, I'm trying to be objective and argue logically. I still believe that with a good team, Saku will lead this team far or any other team he'd go on. I think Canadiens have weaknesses that are far more apparent. I personally think we have too many rookies and young players to be better than 7-8th seed, we have a goalie problem for now and our defense corps is getting better but we're far from elite. It looks to me that our rookies will have no problem filling almost all the positions up front, we need another 1st-2nd line center to compliment Koivu, 1 stay at home Dman for the second pairing and either Theo wakes up or we find someone else to replace him.

Phailak is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 08:33 AM
  #103
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 18,774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phailak
I have another comment to add. A lot of people that want Saks to go seem to want that because we haven't been a contender with him and they want a 1st line center. I doubt anyone on this board, even the most die hard Koivu hater can argue that he would be an amazing 2nd line center on a contender right? Well if you want Montreal to be a contender and Saks would be an amazing 2nd line center on a contender, why not keep him and wait for that 1st line center. You're not going to get a big 1st line center via trade with Koivu, he's worth more to Montreal than any other team. Either we draft one or we sign one. I don't think we have that center in our system so we need another few years to draft one. FA might supply one but UNTIL we do, Saks is definately a good fall back plan not too mention that if we do get one or WHEN, then we'll have a good 1-2 punch for the first time since Koivu came into the league and by definition be a contender.
BTW, this is not how I feel, I'm trying to be objective and argue logically. I still believe that with a good team, Saku will lead this team far or any other team he'd go on. I think Canadiens have weaknesses that are far more apparent. I personally think we have too many rookies and young players to be better than 7-8th seed, we have a goalie problem for now and our defense corps is getting better but we're far from elite. It looks to me that our rookies will have no problem filling almost all the positions up front, we need another 1st-2nd line center to compliment Koivu, 1 stay at home Dman for the second pairing and either Theo wakes up or we find someone else to replace him.
I agree with everything you say, but will Koivu sign for under 3 mil?

Because he shouldn't be making more than that IMO, especially if we get in the hunt to acquire a legit 1st line center...if Koivu wants #1 center money because he's Montreal's defacto #1 center, than we should part ways....

417 is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 09:11 AM
  #104
znk
Registered User
 
znk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave
With all those big name free agents that are just itching to come to Montreal of course.
Give a realistic name.

znk is online now  
Old
02-09-2006, 09:32 AM
  #105
goalchenyuk
Registered User
 
goalchenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: montreal
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 8,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phailak
I have another comment to add. A lot of people that want Saks to go seem to want that because we haven't been a contender with him and they want a 1st line center. I doubt anyone on this board, even the most die hard Koivu hater can argue that he would be an amazing 2nd line center on a contender right? Well if you want Montreal to be a contender and Saks would be an amazing 2nd line center on a contender, why not keep him and wait for that 1st line center. You're not going to get a big 1st line center via trade with Koivu, he's worth more to Montreal than any other team. Either we draft one or we sign one. I don't think we have that center in our system so we need another few years to draft one. FA might supply one but UNTIL we do, Saks is definately a good fall back plan not too mention that if we do get one or WHEN, then we'll have a good 1-2 punch for the first time since Koivu came into the league and by definition be a contender.
BTW, this is not how I feel, I'm trying to be objective and argue logically. I still believe that with a good team, Saku will lead this team far or any other team he'd go on. I think Canadiens have weaknesses that are far more apparent. I personally think we have too many rookies and young players to be better than 7-8th seed, we have a goalie problem for now and our defense corps is getting better but we're far from elite. It looks to me that our rookies will have no problem filling almost all the positions up front, we need another 1st-2nd line center to compliment Koivu, 1 stay at home Dman for the second pairing and either Theo wakes up or we find someone else to replace him.
I don't think that they are so much peoples here thaat want him to leave or to be trade . The second center role is a better option ,but need to be accepted by Saku . I suppose that the ones that are talking about trading our captain , simply don't beleive that he will accept to play a smaller role , at a smaller price ...

goalchenyuk is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 09:52 AM
  #106
Phailak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
Well one option about the money is to continue to sign one year deals until you do find a replacement for the #1 center position. I don't think it'd be fair to Saku to give him less money with the same responsabilities. He's still leading a poor team in scoring despite missing 10 games which might be an indication no one can step up to take his role for now. I have never seen any indication from Saks of him not wanting to take a 2nd line role, if anything he plays sound defensively and accepts that role very well. Not being able to get our hands on a great 1st line center, we could acquire another solid 2nd line center and still have two solid offensive lines. If Kost pans out and Perez seems to be a lock, add ryder to that and Kovalev and you might have a good two first lines without any definition of who's your number one. I would not even be worried to go with Pleks as a second liner in the future (as opposed to Ribs just because he brings another dimension as a solid two way player). But that might be more of an emotional hope of seeing Saks stay. But as many have stated, it's hard to see who can step in, even this summer through UFA, and replace Saks as both captain AND 1st line center.

Phailak is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 10:04 AM
  #107
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Its kinda hard when thinking of him before his injury. The guy used to blow away by defenders, stickhandling at high speed through traffic to make the unexpected pass straight to his teammate. We probably wont ever see that, in fact, he's become a two-way forward, his defense has improved tremendously but it hurts his production.

Basically, my position is the same it has been for 6 years now. No need to trade Saku, he's a very good center, but we do need a guy in the middle who can be in the top 20 scoring regularly. Once we acquire that, no one will bash Koivu simply because he wont have to carry a load he cant. He's a great player, but he cant carry your offense unless its the playoffs or an important game. He used to be able to, but not since his cancer, especially since his injuries make him a lot less valuable then other players in the league. If we can sign him for around 3.5M, it'll leave us a lot of room to get another elite center. No need to trade something that isnt broken.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 11:28 AM
  #108
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Its kinda hard when thinking of him before his injury. The guy used to blow away by defenders, stickhandling at high speed through traffic to make the unexpected pass straight to his teammate. We probably wont ever see that, in fact, he's become a two-way forward, his defense has improved tremendously but it hurts his production.

Basically, my position is the same it has been for 6 years now. No need to trade Saku, he's a very good center, but we do need a guy in the middle who can be in the top 20 scoring regularly. Once we acquire that, no one will bash Koivu simply because he wont have to carry a load he cant. He's a great player, but he cant carry your offense unless its the playoffs or an important game. He used to be able to, but not since his cancer, especially since his injuries make him a lot less valuable then other players in the league. If we can sign him for around 3.5M, it'll leave us a lot of room to get another elite center. No need to trade something that isnt broken.
Why limit it to centers? The Habs could use a top 20 scorer at any position, preferably a sniper who can be counted on for 40 goals a season (not just a once in a career wonder). Zednik has hit 30 once, and Ryder will probably go higher this season, but that's not enough firepower. With such a sniper, Koivu's stats would be a lot higher. Kovalev is more of a playmaker than a sniper--which is not a bad thing, but not quite enough.

Teufelsdreck is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 02:08 PM
  #109
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
Why limit it to centers? The Habs could use a top 20 scorer at any position, preferably a sniper who can be counted on for 40 goals a season (not just a once in a career wonder). Zednik has hit 30 once, and Ryder will probably go higher this season, but that's not enough firepower. With such a sniper, Koivu's stats would be a lot higher. Kovalev is more of a playmaker than a sniper--which is not a bad thing, but not quite enough.
Wingers are not as much of a problem. I'm pretty secure in what we have, I'd rather see another center that can elevate the play of his wingers. I'm pretty sure a guy like Sakic could make Kovalev a 50 goal scorer, or Ryder a 40+ goal scorer. Ryder and Kovalev dont need much to be in the top 10 in goal scoring, they have elite shooting skills. With Perezhogin and Kostitsyn's steady development, we might have two other guys who can notch in a few goals. Perezhogin could have had more then 5 since his return. He's worked a lot on his overall game in hamilton and it shows. I have a thoery that they asked him to work on his game without the puck as well as consistency throughout a game, because those two facets have been clearly been better as of late.

Anyways, an elite center can go a long ways into making a great offense. I think we've improved on a lot of areas, most notably, we have a lot more forwards that can score and play along the boards, but we still need a bit of tweeking there. A few defensemen have emerged like Markov, Rivet, Souray, Cote and to a lesser extent, Bouillon but we could still need another guy there. Basically, a few tweeks could get us over the top. Look at Buffalo, 5 on 5, I'm confident we have a better team, but goaltending and special teams have put them at the top of the league.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 02:28 PM
  #110
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
Why limit it to centers? The Habs could use a top 20 scorer at any position, preferably a sniper who can be counted on for 40 goals a season (not just a once in a career wonder). Zednik has hit 30 once, and Ryder will probably go higher this season, but that's not enough firepower. With such a sniper, Koivu's stats would be a lot higher. Kovalev is more of a playmaker than a sniper--which is not a bad thing, but not quite enough.
Good point. There's a theory about being as good as your best player and I believe they need another high level forward, it doesn't have to be a center.

mcphee is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 02:38 PM
  #111
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,382
vCash: 133
Arnott , Sakic , Weight are the only C better than Koivu on the UFA market next summer . Alex Zhamnov got 4M !! Koivu must stay with us because there is no way any of those guys want to come with a team playing a lot of rookies .

Team_Spirit is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 02:52 PM
  #112
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
You're comparing Koivu's captaincy with great hockey players Hall of Famer stuff, please don't make a fool of yourself, it's embarrassing.
Lemieux, Sakic and Yserman are ten times better than Koivu, easilly.
You started it by comparing him to H. Richard.

Quote:
Blame who for not scoring much goals while playing with Damphousse, Recchi, Savage, Ruzinsky and Kovalev. Before the season started you (and other Koivu hard fans) were saying Koivu would have a better season than Lecavalier. Now we saw Koivu and Kovalev on the bench looking completely discouraged, accepting to loose. Finally Koivi isn't producing much wuth Kovalev, the same story goes on and on again, the losing spiral of Koivu goes on while new blood is bringing a new energy in this team, guys like Plekanek and Higgins to name a few. So now you have to blame management because they have bring heartless player like Kovalev?
I don't recall personally saying Koivu would have a better season than Lecavalier, but it's not like he isn't producing. The guy is the most defensively responsible forward on the team, plays every position and is PPG or very close to it. How many games has he played with Kovalev on his wing? Is it his fault Kovalev is underproducing as well? How many shots has Kovalev fired wide or over the net? Koivu is the leading scorer on this team while playing 10 less games than everyone.

Quote:
I have to be more interrested in international hockey than NHL hockey? C'mon, is that a joke?
Drrrring drrring, wake up buddy, it's NHL hockey, nothing else than Stanley Cup counts, it's the Graal Stone, the great thing, the great machin. Olympic and international tournaments is once in a while, NHL hockey is 82 games every year. This is where THE REAL STUFF. 82 games a year is quite enough to know how Saku Koivu is playing, I saw enough of him after 10 years.
International play is the closest thing to NHL playoff play. Lots of players have great regular seasons and disappear in the playoffs. That makes them completely useless. Koivu may not be in the top 25 in regular season scoring but come playoff time he's top 5. And that's the only place it counts.

Quote:
You bring that xenophobic thing first in the debate. Another poster says of you that you always bring that thing into the debates. You are the typical anti-french person, just admit it.
How am I anti-French for bringing up xenophobia in an argument? I'm saying that the majority of Koivu bashers in the media are xenophobic, and they are. If you are denying that then you're seriously misguided. The boys at 110% would have nothing to talk about if we had a French captain.

Quote:
If I say Lecavalier is better than Koivu I'm a xenophobic french-canadian racist who only like québecois players, I know pretty much how your anti-french brain works. Give me a break, don't ever come back with xenophobic in a debate against me or I'll return it to you. Xenophobic subject closed.
You're confusing yourself. I never once said Koivu was the best player in the league or even up there with the top 10 elite. This whole argument started over a debate on leadership, not skill.

Quote:
I'm happy you admit Jokinen is a better player on the ice than Koivu. Let's find better players first, we'll name a captain in a second priority.
On the ice we need better players. You can't win a cup when Saku Koivu is by and far your best player on the ice. Especially when major parts of your team consist of Sundstrom, Bonk, Ribeiro, Dandenault and Zednik. Aside from Markov, Ryder, Higgins, and maybe Begin, there aren't many cup potential players on this team (Kovalev is when he wants to be).

That being said, Koivu is the best player and leader this team has. Period.

Quote:
Before you start to destroy any credibility about Jacques Demers, Michel Bergeron and Ron Fournier, just remember they once were importanmt in the hockey bizzness, they were head coaches or NHL referee. Now they work in the media, don't you know that they have inside infos that they can't reveal.
They also have a tendency to promote their own personal agendas and use their exposure and reach to do just that. Not all of them, but Bergeron in particular.

Quote:
Same with me, some guy who have hockey contacts in a party last saturday told me stories about Théodore, Forsberg and Koivu. I can't reveal and I'm not sure this guy sources is reliable but Jacques Demers and Ron Fournier's sources are pretty reliable, more than you and me. Don't forget that, don't underestimate these guys who have close contacts.
The problem lies with discerning what are legitimate stories and what are half-truths or outright lies that are intended to promote their own personal opinions. Demers in a post-game analysis ranting about Koivu not being a good leader is not based on fact, it's his opinion, and that gets relayed and mis-interpreted to others as being a fact rather than an opinion made on his personal observation. Yes maybe he has superior hockey knowledge than most, but then again Pierre McGuire, who sees the ice better than 99% of the population and has a better understanding of hockey than some players seems to think Koivu is a perfect example of an NHL captain.

Quote:
Is that so important? To answer your question my first player I have in mind is Craig Rivet. Then it's Bégin, Souray and Kovalev. But if you ask me the way this team has a lack of leadership none of the actual players would wear a C if I compare with Béliveau, Henri Richard, Cournoyer, Savard, Gainey, Carbonneau, Muller and Damphousse.
I thought we weren't comparing our guys to HOFers? BTW if you think hotheads like Rivet, Souray and Begin would make good captains then I'm glad you're not the coach. Those are the last guys I would want trying to argue with referees. Begin especially. He'd turn every other minor into a double minor for abuse of officials.


Quote:
Wow, so he's the best hockey player of the world. Why isn't he so good in NHL this year? He isn't in the first top 50 players. Why?
Maybe because the team he plays on stinks? Maybe because he has no consistent linemates? Maybe because the media is constantly on his back? Maybe because of a general lack of motivation due to a goaltender who is garbage, yet still praised over him as the saviour of this team?

I never said Koivu was the best player in the world. I don't know where you're getting this from. This whole debate started over leadership. Koivu is one of the top 5 leaders in this game.

Quote:
One thing is for sure, Koivu will not last to the end. Habs will have to win the Cup in the last round without Koivu as a first centerman. Is that represent a problem for habs management?
Unless Koivu absolutely could not play, he would play through any injury until this team was eliminated. He played with broken ribs and torn cartiledge and a bruised lung. And didn't tell anyone about it. And he led the league in scoring at that time.

But he's still a bad leader right?

Quote:
Koivu is now older and seems to have his mind elsewhere. We might not agree about who was the most important player in those series but that is the past. Today I've lost the last thrust I had about Koivu. He's defenitively on the downside and will not rebounce like when he was 28y. Let's be realistic.
He's still the best player on this team, and until we draft someone better (no free agents will play here unless they are not offered contracts anywhere else) then he is the best we will have.

waffledave is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 02:54 PM
  #113
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk
Give a realistic name.
I was being sarcastic.

waffledave is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 03:08 PM
  #114
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
waffledave, I,ve always liked you, but now you are my god.


Thanks for making me remember something though. Just for the way he plays in the playoffs, Koivu should not be traded. I have never seen him be less then a top 5 player in the playoffs. Everytime he's there, he's the best player on his team and amongst the best in the league. Its a damn shame he's played on some pathetic teams, if he was on the Sens, they'd probably have a cup right now instead of losing like idiots against he leafs and in game 7 of the semis. He never gets cred for his post-season play, but he's always a warrior. Isnt that what we look for in players? I'm convinced now, I hope we dont "rid" ourselves of him like some people seem to be suggesting. When you have something good, for the love of god, keep it. Richards is an RFA, why not offer him a contract and lose the picks. He's well worth it.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 03:34 PM
  #115
goalchenyuk
Registered User
 
goalchenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: montreal
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 8,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
waffledave, I,ve always liked you, but now you are my god.


Thanks for making me remember something though. Just for the way he plays in the playoffs, Koivu should not be traded. I have never seen him be less then a top 5 player in the playoffs. Everytime he's there, he's the best player on his team and amongst the best in the league. Its a damn shame he's played on some pathetic teams, if he was on the Sens, they'd probably have a cup right now instead of losing like idiots against he leafs and in game 7 of the semis. He never gets cred for his post-season play, but he's always a warrior. Isnt that what we look for in players? I'm convinced now, I hope we dont "rid" ourselves of him like some people seem to be suggesting. When you have something good, for the love of god, keep it. Richards is an RFA, why not offer him a contract and lose the picks. He's well worth it.
Koivu only has 2 playoffs in the late years ; one of them , he played on adrenalin , the time of the first serie, because he was coming back of his cancer . The second one , he 's production was really good aside Kovalev that was also playing very good hockey . Most of their points were done in the first serie .

Is it enough to conclude that Saku is a God in the playoffs ? i don't think . Koivu is able to burn the ice , but only for a short time . Like this season , he start like a lion with a PPG for 15-20 games .He got his injury . When he came back , he was again a lion for 3-4 games. Since that time , he 's more in the range of 0.6 - 0.7 PPG ;This is really ordinary and this is his normal contribution , in the long run.

I still tink that for the righ price , Saku could be a hell of a second center for us , but never we are going to go far with him as the key player .

goalchenyuk is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 03:42 PM
  #116
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej
Arnott , Sakic , Weight are the only C better than Koivu on the UFA market next summer . Alex Zhamnov got 4M !! Koivu must stay with us because there is no way any of those guys want to come with a team playing a lot of rookies .
WEight will be 36 next yeare. He says he wants to play with a solid contender. Carolina has a far better chance than Montréal, so let's leave him out. There's no way Sakic would leave Colorado for Montréal, so let's leave him out. Ditto Arnott. So the only way the Habsa could get that better center is via a trade. Richards will be a RFA, but TB will surely hold on to him. The bottom line: The Habs will not be able to get a new first line center from outside the organization. Therefore, it would make sense to try to sign Koivu. I don't think it would be necessary to pay him $4.5M, and Koivu wouldn't be able to get that much elsewhere.

Teufelsdreck is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 04:31 PM
  #117
HABitude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Laprairie, dans la belle Province
Posts: 2,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
Koivu only has 2 playoffs in the late years ; one of them , he played on adrenalin , the time of the first serie, because he was coming back of his cancer . The second one , he 's production was really good aside Kovalev that was also playing very good hockey . Most of their points were done in the first serie .

Is it enough to conclude that Saku is a God in the playoffs ? i don't think . Koivu is able to burn the ice , but only for a short time . Like this season , he start like a lion with a PPG for 15-20 games .He got his injury . When he came back , he was again a lion for 3-4 games. Since that time , he 's more in the range of 0.6 - 0.7 PPG ;This is really ordinary and this is his normal contribution , in the long run.

I still tink that for the righ price , Saku could be a hell of a second center for us , but never we are going to go far with him as the key player .
Thanks, you're my god mark0v.

Few things I have in mind : Koivu is not that of a god in playoffs, he tends to fall after the first round, and we all know it's 4 rounds to win a Stanley Cup.
Koivu is a good player but a not a legit #1 centerman.
His point production are good on a short time, usually he gets injured and that kills the momentum of the team. This year Kovalev doesn't seem to fit well with Koivu. Not many wingers produced with Koivu over the years, as a centerman he gets a lot of assists and it helps him with his personal stats. He ask too much $$$ for being a second center and we already have a legit centerman with Plekanek.
He can bring much in return if a contender team is realy interrested in him (see D. Weight trade).
New leadership is growing in Habs land.
There is many reasons why trading Koivu makes sense.
If he wants to stay for $2,5M that's fine with me. Being away from the play 15 games injured every year is kindda expensive, that explain why I would like a salary cut in his case.

HABitude is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 05:04 PM
  #118
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Thanks, you're my god mark0v.

Few things I have in mind : Koivu is not that of a god in playoffs, he tends to fall after the first round, and we all know it's 4 rounds to win a Stanley Cup.
Koivu is a good player but a not a legit #1 centerman.
His point production are good on a short time, usually he gets injured and that kills the momentum of the team. This year Kovalev doesn't seem to fit well with Koivu. Not many wingers produced with Koivu over the years, as a centerman he gets a lot of assists and it helps him with his personal stats. He ask too much $$$ for being a second center and we already have a legit centerman with Plekanek.
He can bring much in return if a contender team is realy interrested in him (see D. Weight trade).
New leadership is growing in Habs land.
There is many reasons why trading Koivu makes sense.
If he wants to stay for $2,5M that's fine with me. Being away from the play 15 games injured every year is kindda expensive, that explain why I would like a salary cut in his case.
I don't understand why you'd settle for a mediocre second line centre, but not Koivu as first line centre.

waffledave is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 05:34 PM
  #119
edd1e
Registered User
 
edd1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,984
vCash: 500
i guess many of you guys wont believe me when i say this, but i would not trade Koivu to any player when he plays for Finland.

He is the heart and soul of team Finland.

Olympic Gold > Stanley Cup, to me.

And to the orginal question, i hate to say this but he might be saving some strength to Olympics, or he's still injured.

edd1e is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 06:03 PM
  #120
HABitude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Laprairie, dans la belle Province
Posts: 2,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave
I don't understand why you'd settle for a mediocre second line centre, but not Koivu as first line centre.
Pleks is not a mediocre second center. Koivu would be good as a second center, not the best of the league but a good one.
I would settle for a better #1 center than Koivu for sure.
Not you?

HABitude is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 06:06 PM
  #121
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Pleks is not a mediocre second center. Koivu would be good as a second center, not the best of the league but a good one.
I would settle for a better #1 center than Koivu for sure.
Not you?
Pleks is not a second line centre. He's not even near there yet. A third line centre yes, but he's not quite ready for 2nd line duty. He needs to polish his offensive game first.

I see more faults with Plekanec as a full time 2nd line centre than Koivu as a 1st line centre.

waffledave is offline  
Old
02-09-2006, 11:01 PM
  #122
Phailak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
I just want to weigh in again in regards to Koivu's playoff performances. When we lost against Carolina, let's not forget they made it all the way to the finals and the momentum shift on the 5-3 call on Therrien was huge, adding to that the famous Lindsey (sp?) faceoff over guys like Perreault and Koivu??? And the Tampa Bay series, I mean we're talking about the Stanley Cup Champions, what could be our expectations against them, and some games were a lot closer than a 4-0 sweep would indicate. I think Saks is a monster in the playoffs, but one guy can do so much, just try and imagine our playoff ru nthis year without him, try to think ahead and see if you won't miss him tons when the time comes (if we make the playoffs of course)

Phailak is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.