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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix CXXV: Relocating One Seat at a Time

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Old
03-16-2017, 08:47 PM
  #51
madhi19
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Absolutely horrible PR move, it screams desperation that the reality of a lame duck is now upon them! Only team in the NHL having to resort to such a move. It speaks volumes of how this ownership group has essentially given up. The tarps are a symbol of DEFEAT! Spin it as you like with advertising this is a sad development in the charade of IA and the NHL!
This is the kind of move that would have gone unnoticed if IA did it four years ago after buying the team. Back then it would have looked smart now it only look desperate.

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03-16-2017, 08:58 PM
  #52
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The tarp thing is likely a contingency plan to limit losses in the event the team has to stay another year. IA will operate like they own the team and will be in AZ next year right up until the moving trucks show up.

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03-16-2017, 08:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
and you missed that the 2017-18 season is alive and well past 6/30/17, thanks to our friends in Arizona, MNN, so the 6/30/17 BECOMES 6/30/18, if THE CONTRACT has BEEN EXTENDED past 6/30/17, WHICH NULLIFIES any clause and/or relocation after 2016/17....
I highly doubt any agreement is ironclad. There is dollar figure that could get them out of the lease agreement. Now the arena manager could leave but they would likely stay with small changes to the contract. The lease isn't going to be an impediment to leaving this summer if it comes to that.

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03-16-2017, 09:54 PM
  #54
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The tarp thing is likely a contingency plan to limit losses in the event the team has to stay another year. IA will operate like they own the team and will be in AZ next year right up until the moving trucks show up.
Your avatar intrigues me..

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Old
03-16-2017, 09:59 PM
  #55
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You're right.[B] I wouldn't be surprised to see 5,000 or 6,000[/B]-person crowds next season at the non-Blackhawks/Red Wings games. I'm seeing more indications from some of my friends who kept their season tix this year that they are going to refuse to renew until there is some direction on what the team is doing. No reason to spend the money if the team is going to suck and there will be impending relocation looming over everything again.

What an ignominious end we're headed for.
So 5k-6k person crowds plus no subsidy from Glendale 40M50M in the red next year? Can they afford to wait for Seattle? Hard to believe that they will be playing in Glendale next year if the bill doesn't pass

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03-16-2017, 10:04 PM
  #56
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Nothing wrong with that. It's better to have a full building with less seats than a half empty building with more seats.
I'm all for it if there is some economy and/or additional revenue created.

I'm not sure just tarping off really represents any economy. I mean, it might take an hour less for the guy that cleans the arena, but it takes time for people to put it up.

So, unless they see some revenue from advertising (like others have pointed out), I doubt they get richer doing it.

Seems like, if a given game is about to be sold out, like a home opener, they will not tarp those places, so no higher demand, no increased prices.

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03-16-2017, 10:04 PM
  #57
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I'm not reading much into the tarping. All likely part of Leblanc's 75 page business plan for year 5 of ownership. Runway fully in sight now, just circling for a landing spot in the East Valley.

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03-16-2017, 11:14 PM
  #58
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Tarping is a good move for the franchise. Just like the plans to build a 16,000 seat arena were solid plans as well.

As for what it means for predicting the future, I think slim to none.

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03-16-2017, 11:25 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Tarping is a good move for the franchise. Just like the plans to build a 16,000 seat arena were solid plans as well.

As for what it means for predicting the future, I think slim to none.
... Monorail for Tempe'.... that too a good idea.... whens that happening?

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03-16-2017, 11:33 PM
  #60
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I'm sad to say that the tarps look like curtains for the 'Yotes.

There's no realistic chance of the bill passing. There's nowhere else to go, and this move might just as well come with a sign that says "This will be one ugly lame duck season!"

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03-16-2017, 11:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mork View Post
I'm sad to say that the tarps look like curtains for the 'Yotes.

There's no realistic chance of the bill passing. There's nowhere else to go, and this move might just as well come with a sign that says "This will be one ugly lame duck season!"
Yes, and with the only option remaining being GRA and it seems both LeBlancs & Bettmans pride on the line... well, we know how that line goes...

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03-16-2017, 11:53 PM
  #62
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. . . didnt really endear himself with the Fans suggesting the photos of former Leaf greats like Charlie Conacher, Syl Apps, Turk Broda, Ted Kennedy, Johnny Bower & Dave Keon etc adorning the walls in hallways & so on at the ACC be removed as in "what have you done for me lately?"
He really wanted to pull those photos down?? That's one of the most endearing things about that building. A bit of the old Gardens history brought over to the new building - just baffling that anyone would want to lose that! They're great photos, too. Award-winning level action shots, not just stock headshot photos. When I read once someone's claim that ACC was the best arena in the league, it was those photos in the hallways that I thought of. Pretty heartless if he really wanted those taken down. Maybe they could give them to LeBlanc for his new rink in Tempe, Mesa, the Grand Canyon, or wherever it's going to be.

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03-16-2017, 11:54 PM
  #63
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So 5k-6k person crowds plus no subsidy from Glendale 40M50M in the red next year? Can they afford to wait for Seattle? Hard to believe that they will be playing in Glendale next year if the bill doesn't pass
Also, will likely need to shell out more in player salaries to reach the cap floor.

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Old
03-17-2017, 12:06 AM
  #64
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He really wanted to pull those photos down?? That's one of the most endearing things about that building. A bit of the old Gardens history brought over to the new building - just baffling that anyone would want to lose that! They're great photos, too. Award-winning level action shots, not just stock headshot photos. When I read once someone's claim that ACC was the best arena in the league, it was those photos in the hallways that I thought of. Pretty heartless if he really wanted those taken down. Maybe they could give them to LeBlanc for his new rink in Tempe, Mesa, the Grand Canyon, or wherever it's going to be.
Yeah, and in a city where the media reports on what the 4th line Left Winger had for his pre-game meal, had an absolute field day over that one.... LeBlanc was I believe a Senators fan, Season Ticket holder in Ottawa. Its all really rather sad, as he clearly has a passion for the game, gets points for enthusiasm. Unfortunate he doesnt have the bank account to go with & clearly if the plan was to try & stabilize the franchise, hopefully attract some money bags, hasnt exactly gone according to script.

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03-17-2017, 12:07 AM
  #65
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. . . Looking ahead to tomorrow at the legislature. When do they post the agenda?

http://www.azleg.gov/Alis-Today/?sda...7-03-17&view=2

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it shows blank. Nothing scheduled.

Is it too early or is the legislature closed tomorrow?
The Senate has not been meeting on Fridays. Committee meetings on Friday mornings, but no floor sessions so far. That's common in legislatures and in Congress for Reps/Senators to get back to their districts for the weekend. You might start seeing Friday meetings as session deadlines approach and extra sessions are needed to get the last bills heard.

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03-17-2017, 12:17 AM
  #66
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Say no bill passing and no relocation.

Could next year be the single biggest loss for a team in NHL history?

Which is why I'm leaning harder toward relo if the Bill doesn't sneak through. I still have a feeling they'll it to the floor.

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... Monorail for Tempe'.... that too a good idea.... whens that happening?
Listen, we take the money earmarked for the 'yotes building, and instead build a monorail between Glendale and Tempe, so that the franchise has easy access to its fans, and it helps the rest of the city by introducing additional public transportation.

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03-17-2017, 12:41 AM
  #67
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Say no bill passing and no relocation.

Could next year be the single biggest loss for a team in NHL history?
Nope. The new Canadian tv deal ,increased revenue sharing and the new cba have helped lower the losses for small market teams. According to Forbes the Coyotes only lost 8 million last year. Carolina lost 15 million last year. Even if those numbers arent 100% accurate they should be in the ballpark. Lets not forget the Coyotes are spending the bare minimum on salary and marketing, and still have a generous lease from Glendale. However, with the floor increasing next year and no more bs contracts like Pronger and Datsyuk, combined with lame duck fan support and increasing interest rates on the debt it could all combine for major losses (20+ million).

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03-17-2017, 12:44 AM
  #68
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Nope. The new Canadian tv deal ,increased revenue sharing and the new cba have helped lower the losses for small market teams. According to Forbes the Coyotes only lost 8 million last year. Carolina lost 15 million last year. Even if those numbers arent 100% accurate they should be in the ballpark. Lets not forget the Coyotes are spending the bare minimum on salary and marketing, and still have a generous lease from Glendale. However, with the floor increasing next year and no more bs contracts like Pronger and Datsyuk, combined with lame duck fan support and increasing interest rates on the debt it could all combine for major losses (20+ million).
Good point on the new stuff.

When I said "in NHL history" I should have said: Since the lockout.

I really don't trust the Forbes numbers.

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03-17-2017, 01:41 AM
  #69
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However, with the floor increasing next year and no more bs contracts like Pronger and Datsyuk, combined with lame duck fan support and increasing interest rates on the debt it could all combine for major losses (20+ million).
This is one of the reason I think it all falling apart and quickly. Those contracts were mana from heaven for the Yotes, they are well bellow the floor without them. Will the league look the other way if they don't reach the floor? Probably no, if you do it once you have 5 or 6 dumpster fire who will ask for the same exemption the next day. The PA would freak, the top earners will all ask for the reverse, if Gary lose control of the BoG on that issue he might even lose the cap.

The league office love the cap, but am not so sure about the owners. If you poll them in private I bet 2/3 are probably sick of it by now. The floor is too high for the team losing money, and the ceiling is too low for the team making all the money.

If it come between moving the Yotes immediately to Moosejaw, or facing a owners rebellion over the cap floor/ceiling, Moosejaw it is. Or they find some sort of penalty that would look stiff on paper, but will be a slap on the wrist in reality. You combine the cap hell the Yotes might be in with the prospect of a clear lame duck year, and it curtain call.

Especially for Gary Bettman who can't afford to carry this crap much longer. He's got way bigger fishes to fry anyway. The Olympic, the centennial, the other three or four dumpster fire, and the next lockout looming... Kicking that can five years down the does not sound so smart now Gary!

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Old
03-17-2017, 01:57 AM
  #70
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Nope. The new Canadian tv deal ,increased revenue sharing and the new cba have helped lower the losses for small market teams. According to Forbes the Coyotes only lost 8 million last year. Carolina lost 15 million last year. Even if those numbers arent 100% accurate they should be in the ballpark. Lets not forget the Coyotes are spending the bare minimum on salary and marketing, and still have a generous lease from Glendale. However, with the floor increasing next year and no more bs contracts like Pronger and Datsyuk, combined with lame duck fan support and increasing interest rates on the debt it could all combine for major losses (20+ million).
The Coyotes originally talked about putting $200m in for a new arena, then backed that down to $170m later. Make of that what you will.

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:44 AM
  #71
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Well, based on this year's average attendance, tarping off those sections will push their average attendance from 75.7 to 81.6.

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03-17-2017, 06:39 AM
  #72
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Was Bettman in the building last night? If not, he probably will be at tomorrow's game against the Blues to try to plead his case for the Senate bill. Of course, Arizona plays St. Marys in the NCAA tournament Saturday night as well.

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03-17-2017, 06:41 AM
  #73
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a) this tarping thing just seems like a childish, public ploy by leblanc designed to try to show how GRA is a bad fit for them. its akin to a little temper tantrum, it will accomplish nothing.
b) if it did actually accomplish something, it should have been done years ago when it might have mattered. IA has consistently shown itself complete unprepared and unable to actually make decisions and undertake actions that benefit sales. it has run the club in an ad hoc and reactionary way, all the while blaming everyone else - including an arena! - for poor sales and interest.
c) its all part of the "we tried everything we could" charade still playing out for the next few weeks before the blame fingers begin pointing as moving vans are loaded.
d) sadly, i think leblanc may still believe he's in charge.

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Old
03-17-2017, 07:08 AM
  #74
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I would bet an old Canadian $2 paper bill that the Coyotes will move to Quebec City and then the Hurricanes will move to Seattle in a couple of years when they finally sort their situation.

The 32nd team will be via expansion in Dulce, New Mexico, where they are building a secret alien base.
LOL....sarcasm, maybe...but seeing what has transpired the past years in Arizona nothing would be a shock.

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03-17-2017, 07:36 AM
  #75
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The Senate has not been meeting on Fridays. Committee meetings on Friday mornings, but no floor sessions so far. That's common in legislatures and in Congress for Reps/Senators to get back to their districts for the weekend. You might start seeing Friday meetings as session deadlines approach and extra sessions are needed to get the last bills heard.
Appreciate it!

Looking ahead to next week, I see Friday the 24th is completely blank as well.

Not sure how likely is that to change at this stage in the session. If it doesn't and the 24th is the last day for the House Committee to hear Senate bills and v.v., then would it be correct to say the 23rd is the last day for it to pass in the Senate....4 business days?

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