HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Calder Race 2016/2017 #16

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-17-2017, 12:53 PM
  #76
Center Ice Scrum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The World Wide Web
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,698
vCash: 50
As it stands right now. I think the Calder standings are.

Werenski



Laine
Matthews/ Marner
Willie/ Murray
Tkachuk

Center Ice Scrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 12:55 PM
  #77
nabob
:]
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,604
vCash: 500
Laine
Werenski
Murray
Mariner/Matthews.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 12:58 PM
  #78
nabob
:]
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by biotk View Post
Matthews has 6 points in 5 games against those teams and so far this season has been just as productive as the league's best teams, as he has been against the league's worst teams. He has played well during his recent games despite some people thinking that he looks tired either because they don't watch the games, or think he should be able to fly around the ice creating lots of scoring opportunities at will while carrying with the league's heaviest anchor every minute of 5v5 and being double and triple teamed. Matthews has no space out there and will not until Babcock mixes the lines up (which will happen a week past never).

Still Matthews has done what he can under the circumstances. He has 12 TKAs in 7 games, and has been great defensively. In other words he doesn't let frustration offensively result in cheating on the defensive play. In those 7 games he has been 1.75 GA/60 min at 5v5.

For March (so far) 5v5: GP - GF/60min - GA/60Min (Dif)
Matthews: 7 - 1.17 - 1.75 (-0.57)
McDaivd: 6 - 4.26 - 2.44 (+1.82)
Crosby: 8 - 1.81 - 2.72 (-0.91)
Marner: 7 - 4.90 - 2.80 (+2.10)
Tkachuk: 6 - 2.96 - 2.96 (0)
Ovechkin: 8 - 2.81 - 3.37 (-0.56)
Marchand: 8 - 3.69 - 3.69 (0)
Kadri: 7- 1.28 - 3.84 (-2.56)
Kane: 8 - 3.93 - 4.37 (-0.44)
Laine: 7 - 3.24 - 4.54 (-1.30)
Using TKAs in a small sample size to try and award Matthews the Calder is funny.

If he was great defensively like Leafs nations proclaims then he would have spent more than an average of 0.6 seconds per game on the PK.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:07 PM
  #79
heilongjetsfan
Registered User
 
heilongjetsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Chikkity China
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,684
vCash: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lari View Post
And I think this is why Werenski should win it over two guys on non-playoff teams. The Jackets were a last place team last season. Not anymore. He is a key factor in that SUCCESS.

And why even bother comparing d-men points with forwards? How about advanced stats?
Not like they have a goalie or anything. Not like they have any other top defensemen. Not like they have any forwards playing well above expectations. Not like they have a very clever coach who has had massive successes before but also been held back by his attitude problems and has developed a previously unseen system and seems to have (probably temporarily) found away around his hair-trigger temper.

Werenski's doing great, but it's RIDICULOUS to say or even hint that Columbus' success is because of him. I guess I'm really more responding to the guy you're responding to, so don't feel like I'm coming at you directly, I just misclicked and am too lazy to go back. I could live with Werenski getting the Calder. That said, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Leafs fan, but they're not a non-playoff team until they miss the playoffs, and they've got a pretty decent shot at getting in as of today.

heilongjetsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:24 PM
  #80
hockeyes
Registered User
 
hockeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Using TKAs in a small sample size to try and award Matthews the Calder is funny.

If he was great defensively like Leafs nations proclaims then he would have spent more than an average of 0.6 seconds per game on the PK.
What a terrible argument

Believe it or not, teams have control over how they develop players and at this point in time there's no need to have Matthews focus on penalty killing.

hockeyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:29 PM
  #81
Couchcaptain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 126
vCash: 500
It has been like this all season long.. when Matthews is slumping, he is off course being amazing defensively. He is instantly selke candidate, and when he is hot offensively, he is better than Mcdavid

Couchcaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:30 PM
  #82
Peggy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Center Ice Scrum View Post
As it stands right now. I think the Calder standings are.

Werenski



Laine
Matthews/ Marner
Willie/ Murray
Tkachuk
How can it be that big of lead?

Laine is breaking records this season
Don't know about Werenski, but however good he's been it's not that big of a gap right now

Peggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:30 PM
  #83
Kelly
It was 4-1.
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,008
vCash: 137
Send a message via ICQ to Kelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Using TKAs in a small sample size to try and award Matthews the Calder is funny.

If he was great defensively like Leafs nations proclaims then he would have spent more than an average of 0.6 seconds per game on the PK.
Yeah putting our best player on the PK to get into shooting lanes is a great idea...... not.

Has Babcock ever played any of his skilled guys on the PK? IIIRC Datsyuk never played much of it, neither did Zetterberg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchcaptain View Post
It has been like this all season long.. when Matthews is slumping, he is off course being amazing defensively. He is instantly selke candidate, and when he is hot offensively, he is better than Mcdavid
And when Laine is hot offensively he's better than Lemieux...

Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:43 PM
  #84
The Winter Soldier
Team NHL
 
The Winter Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: China
Posts: 44,770
vCash: 500
Finnish Laine fans! Anyone know when the postponed NJ/Jets game will be made up?

The Winter Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:46 PM
  #85
Kumamon
Registered User
 
Kumamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vicinity of Tokyo
Country: Japan
Posts: 868
vCash: 500
Why on earth are people blaming Hyman for Matthews slump ?
Don't blame Hyman. It's Babcock's fault.
I think Laine will win. Don't get me wrong. I'm a Leafs fan.


Last edited by Kumamon: 03-17-2017 at 01:53 PM.
Kumamon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:47 PM
  #86
Peggy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Laine's a better meme generator than the rest of the rookies
He's been part of the better me memes this season
So Laine> all
LAINEC :p

Peggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:47 PM
  #87
Gurilla
Registered User
 
Gurilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Finnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 846
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Winter Soldier View Post
Finnish Laine fans! Anyone know when the postponed NJ/Jets game will be made up?
Rescheduled to March 28th. Will be a quick road trip in the midst of a home stand.

Gurilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 01:56 PM
  #88
The Winter Soldier
Team NHL
 
The Winter Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Country: China
Posts: 44,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurilla View Post
Rescheduled to March 28th. Will be a quick road trip in the midst of a home stand.
Thanks, this could be vital game for the Calder I am guessing. Every point could make a difference.

The Winter Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:23 PM
  #89
Center Ice Scrum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The World Wide Web
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,698
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
How can it be that big of lead?

Laine is breaking records this season
Don't know about Werenski, but however good he's been it's not that big of a gap right now
Because Laine is still a rookie. 18 year old records or not. Not every kid breaks into his rookie year at 18 and so that point is mute. It's the rules of the draft and luck of the draw. To come in as a top pairing dman on a top team in the league and 45 or so odd points is far far more impressive. I'm a leafs fan but even I would admit that what werenski has done is more impressive than any of our rookies. Laine hasn't been better than Matthews. Werenski has been better then both.

Center Ice Scrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:31 PM
  #90
biotk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Using TKAs in a small sample size to try and award Matthews the Calder is funny.
Who said I was attempting to do that? First day learning to read?

biotk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:32 PM
  #91
grieves
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Country: Finland
Posts: 526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Center Ice Scrum View Post
Because Laine is still a rookie. 18 year old records or not. Not every kid breaks into his rookie year at 18 and so that point is mute. It's the rules of the draft and luck of the draw. To come in as a top pairing dman on a top team in the league and 45 or so odd points is far far more impressive. I'm a leafs fan but even I would admit that what werenski has done is more impressive than any of our rookies. Laine hasn't been better than Matthews. Werenski has been better then both.
Amazing how much love Werenski is getting all of a sudden. Such a quick appreciation for d-men. Of course he has been beating Laine all season and Laine is definitely not ahead of Matthews.

It's not that Laine is 18 that is impressive. It is that Laine is kicking a** while being 18 is what is impressive.

And don't get me wrong, I think Werenski should definitely be in the conversation and is #2 in my book. I'm just happy he is suddenly getting so much love from Leafs fans all of a sudden .

grieves is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:43 PM
  #92
Narow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,185
vCash: 500
I get that what Werenski is doing is amazing and all but just how does it stack up to laine?

I quickly skeemed thru some of their stats.

Laine has more even strength points (47) than Werenski has points... Laine has more even strength goals (25) than Werenski has power play points (21)

Laine has a chance of surpassing or getting close to Crosby (53) and ovechkin (52) rookie seasons in even strength....he has faar surpassed expectation but has been a bit dissapointing on the powerplay...he has 3 times the goal amount of Werenski which i think can be big..

How does he stack up to the 44 point defenseman?

Im guessing that an 16 point gap is not so big when comparing forwards to defensemen?

Narow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:45 PM
  #93
Peggy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Center Ice Scrum View Post
Because Laine is still a rookie. 18 year old records or not. Not every kid breaks into his rookie year at 18 and so that point is mute. It's the rules of the draft and luck of the draw. To come in as a top pairing dman on a top team in the league and 45 or so odd points is far far more impressive. I'm a leafs fan but even I would admit that what werenski has done is more impressive than any of our rookies. Laine hasn't been better than Matthews. Werenski has been better then both.
Exactly he's 18 tho lol which does add to making his season a little more impressive
What's more impressive?
An 18 year old rookie with 40 goals or a 20 year old rookie with 40 goals?

Sorry, but Laine has been better than Matthews as of right now
More points in less games is greater not equal

Quote:
Originally Posted by grieves View Post
Amazing how much love Werenski is getting all of a sudden. Such a quick appreciation for d-men. Of course he has been beating Laine all season and Laine is definitely not ahead of Matthews.

It's not that Laine is 18 that is impressive. It is that Laine is kicking a** while being 18 is what is impressive.

And don't get me wrong, I think Werenski should definitely be in the conversation and is #2 in my book. I'm just happy he is suddenly getting so much love from Leafs fans all of a sudden .
Laine isn't ahead of Matthews?
So 60(in 63) isn't greater than 55 (in70)?


Last edited by Peggy: 03-17-2017 at 02:51 PM.
Peggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:45 PM
  #94
soothsayer
Registered User
 
soothsayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,169
vCash: 50
Jeff O'Neil captures the spirit of all arguments from Leafs fans for why Matthews should win the Calder over Laine: "I just like him is all."

soothsayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:49 PM
  #95
Narow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Exactly he's 18 tho lol which does add to making his season a little more impressive
What's more impressive?
An 18 year old rookie with 40 goals or a 20 year old rookie with 40 goals?

Sorry, but Laine has been better than Matthews as of right now
More points in less games is greater not equal



Laine isn't ahead of Matthews?
So 60 isn't greater than 56?
Matthews has 55 and grieves was being sarcastic...

Narow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 02:53 PM
  #96
Peggy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narow View Post
Matthews has 55 and grieves was being sarcastic...
Was he? My bad

Yeah I just went back and looked at stats
I knew it was 55 or 56
Went with the higher point to give Matthews the benefit of the doubt lol

Peggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 05:06 PM
  #97
nabob
:]
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by biotk View Post
Who said I was attempting to do that? First day learning to read?
Then what was the point of your post? Using a few game sample of pretty irrelevant stats to prove Matthews has been good defensively over that few game stretch?

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 05:09 PM
  #98
nabob
:]
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
Yeah putting our best player on the PK to get into shooting lanes is a great idea...... not.

Has Babcock ever played any of his skilled guys on the PK? IIIRC Datsyuk never played much of it, neither did Zetterberg.



And when Laine is hot offensively he's better than Lemieux...
Babcock will use his best players suited for whatever situation. He often used his best players on the PK in Detroit. The fact that Matthews has played a grand total of 45 seconds on the PK all season speaks volumes. Most of those were probably him jumping on the ice at the end of a PK trying to take advantage of tired opponents. The narrative that Matthews is some kind of dominant defensive player didn't exist before he started to struggle to put up points.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 05:13 PM
  #99
Laineux
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Center Ice Scrum View Post
Because Laine is still a rookie. 18 year old records or not. Not every kid breaks into his rookie year at 18 and so that point is mute. It's the rules of the draft and luck of the draw. To come in as a top pairing dman on a top team in the league and 45 or so odd points is far far more impressive. I'm a leafs fan but even I would admit that what werenski has done is more impressive than any of our rookies. Laine hasn't been better than Matthews. Werenski has been better then both.
Far far more impressive? Basically Laine would have to be in the Art and Hart conversation to match Werenski?

Why isn't he up there with Burns and Karlsson in the Norris race?

Laineux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2017, 05:18 PM
  #100
LeafFever
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer View Post
Jeff O'Neil captures the spirit of all arguments from Leafs fans for why Matthews should win the Calder over Laine: "I just like him is all."
That's the same as Gary Lawless opinion as to why Laine will be better.

LeafFever is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.