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How To Get A Top 6 Center

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Old
03-17-2017, 09:14 AM
  #26
jjmathews202
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Well Shipachev is available and won't cost assets. They need to get him this summer.
With the perceived lack of trade assets the habs have around the league, and the obvious recent russian connection in MTL, this is so clearly their best option. Is it a gamble? Yes. Could he stink? Sure. Is this the most realistic way for us to get a potential top 6 C w/out jettisoning the core or our future? 100%. Gotta make the deal.

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03-17-2017, 09:18 AM
  #27
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Would you say the Flyers got lucky with acquiring a guy like Giroux at the 22nd pick? Classic hindsight evaluation. There are lots of guys drafted in later 1st round, 2nd and 3rd where they ended being superstars.
He was in the Habs backyard. They drafted a guy playing High School hockey. It's a dumb move, hindsight or not.

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03-17-2017, 09:21 AM
  #28
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He could trade Price for one maybe.

Carey Price and Emelin and a first round pick to Colorado for

Duchene
Landeskog and sign a ufa goalie maybe Bishop in July.

2 top 6 forward needs addressed and sign Bishop and have a team with more scoring depth that still has a good goalie but that is not so dependant on goal tending. Is this a crazy proposal? It gives us two top 3 pick players and a rebuild sort of.


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03-17-2017, 09:34 AM
  #29
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He was in the Habs backyard. They drafted a guy playing High School hockey. It's a dumb move, hindsight or not.
Not arguing as I remember this point as well. Your talking about 11 years ago now in one draft. 20 others teams passed on Giroux as well. Size always have an impact as to why guys slip further in the draft. A smarter move would of been to trade their 2 2nd round picks for that 22nd pick if the flyers would of accepted the deal. I'm always a fan of trading some of your stock pile of picks (2nd, 3rd) to acquire a guy in the later 1st round that you want.

Giroux would of been nice to have on the Habs today though!

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03-17-2017, 09:46 AM
  #30
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- Target a player not known to be available to the public like Duchne is for example. Perhaps from a team looking to unload salary to sign other players (Nelson, Bjustad, Coyle)

- Use your 1st in 2017 + 2 2nd round picks in 2017 + 1st in 2018 + 3 2nd round picks in 2018 to get the deal done + some prospects preferably not named Mikhail Sergachev. I'm not saying move all those picks in one package, but a combination of it.

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03-17-2017, 09:48 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
- Target a player not known to be available to the public like Duchne is for example. Perhaps from a team looking to unload salary to sign other players (Nelson, Bjustad, Coyle)

- Use your 1st in 2017 + 2 2nd round picks in 2017 + 1st in 2018 + 3 2nd round picks in 2018 to get the deal done + some prospects preferably not named Mikhail Sergachev. I'm not saying move all those picks in one package, but a combination of it.
Exactly...he has to get creative.........this time next season, it will be year 6 and no centreman to help Chucky, who can score...I mean there are lots of things you can do, besides give up, and say they are not out there?

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03-17-2017, 10:17 AM
  #32
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I am a gambler, in order to get that top 5 pick I would offer every pick we have available for the draft.

I am not impressed with our Amateur scouting and am willing to give up a year to get what I want.

Thanks to the OP for putting in all the legwork.

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03-17-2017, 10:21 AM
  #33
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I am a gambler, in order to get that top 5 pick I would offer every pick we have available for the draft.
That's not going to work. A 5th overall is obviously worth more than a 24th, a 54th, an 84th, and so on.

Interestingly back in 1984 the Habs allegedly made that offer for 1st overall Mario Lemieux. The Penguins obviously said no. The 1984 draft turned out to arguably be the greatest in Habs history, they got Petr Svoboda, Stephane Richer, Shayne Corson, and Patrick Roy.

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Old
03-17-2017, 10:32 AM
  #34
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He could trade Price for one maybe.

Carey Price and Emelin and a first round pick to Colorado for

Duchene
Landeskog and sign a ufa goalie maybe Bishop in July.

2 top 6 forward needs addressed and sign Bishop and have a team with more scoring depth that still has a good goalie but that is not so dependant on goal tending. Is this a crazy proposal? It gives us two top 3 pick players and a rebuild sort of.
As crazy as it is I'm not against the idea of trading Price if we can get a legit top 6 C in return.

Something around Price for Draisaitl would be interesting but then again, I don't think the Oilers really need an upgrade between the pipes..


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03-17-2017, 10:42 AM
  #35
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What I found was of the 60 top centers, 3 had been acquired as Free Agents. Only one of those 3, Johnson of the Bolts, had never been drafted. The other 2, Staal with Minnie and Stastny of the Blues have been acquired fairly recently, 2016 and 2014 respectively, but clearly very few centers are acquired as free agents.
Red Wings signed Frans Nielsen last summer, he is a top 6 center for us. I was pretty surprised when looking though, just how few top 6 centers were acquired via UFA.

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03-17-2017, 10:47 AM
  #36
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Red Wings signed Frans Nielsen last summer, he is a top 6 center for us. I was pretty surprised when looking though, just how few top 6 centers were acquired via UFA.
Whoops, you are right. I entered that wrong, though I had him right as being drafted 87th overall.

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03-17-2017, 10:48 AM
  #37
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If the idea of trading Price for top 6 C better be for established player, not a player who has potential to be top line center like Drasaitl because we already have Chucky. GMs pay a lot for potential.

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03-17-2017, 10:53 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
As crazy as it is I'm not against the idea of trading Price if we can get a legit top 6 C in return.

Something around Price for Draisaitl would be interesting but then again, I don't think the Oilers really need an upgrade between the pipes..
No, they don't really need one and very few teams do...which is why the goalie market is so unpredictable.

There has to be a team, with a specific need at goalie and who have the salary cap available to take on a guy like Price.

Which is why I think he's never going to hit free agency because there just aren't a lot of vacancies at his position. It's like trading a Dman or a forward, there are an abundance of available spots for them.

But goalie, there are only 60 available spots in the entire league, and only 30 available starting positions, then you have to pare that list down even more because of the 30 NHL teams, the large majority of them already have a starting goaltender who they're paying.

The idea of trading Price or any goalie for that matter for a top 6 center is not a very realistic one.

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03-17-2017, 10:57 AM
  #39
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If the idea of trading Price for top 6 C better be for established player, not a player who has potential to be top line center like Drasaitl because we already have Chucky. GMs pay a lot for potential.
IF, IF, IF for whatever reason Price had to be moved, the best fit for me would be Calgary as they need goaltending , and arguably have 3 top 6 centers in Backlund, Monahan and Bennett. I would want Monahan.

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03-17-2017, 10:59 AM
  #40
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There's no possibility of the Habs getting Monahan for Price.

Best case scenario? An average starter plus a late 1st rounder from a playoff team.

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03-17-2017, 11:02 AM
  #41
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IF, IF, IF for whatever reason Price had to be moved, the best fit for me would be Calgary as they need goaltending , and arguably have 3 top 6 centers in Backlund, Monahan and Bennett. I would want Monahan.
They already have 2 goalies...so you'd have to be prepared to take one back, most likely the one with the larger salary (Brian Elliott) and at that point, is it really worth it for the Flames to move a player like Monahan + Elliott for Price?

Does that make them a better team?

Not so sure about that.

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03-17-2017, 11:19 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
As crazy as it is I'm not against the idea of trading Price if we can get a legit top 6 C in return.

Something around Price for Draisaitl would be interesting but then again, I don't think the Oilers really need an upgrade between the pipes..
If we bow out this year in the first or second round and I think that is realistic btw unless we have another miracle run like 93 with every single thing going right that could go right, where does that leave us?

We have nothing coming in the minors, this year is a weak draft and likely any player coming from there is 3-4 years away so what do we do? Price is going to get a max contract and we still need two top 6 forwards and tbh it is unlikely that big name free agents sign in Montreal, so we keep Price and we have no guarantee that he wants to stay. Price for Draisaitl and Talbot would work would it not? Bergevin has to do something, the same old recycled answers will not work if we go out early in the playoffs. If we want to change things in Montreal it might have to be by trading our MVP goalie, I would rather have a strong top 6 and a good goalie than the way it is now. We can't score and live and die with Price, we saw it last year and we saw it this year when he struggled, we are too thin at forward and desperately need talent there.

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03-17-2017, 12:07 PM
  #43
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They already have 2 goalies...so you'd have to be prepared to take one back, most likely the one with the larger salary (Brian Elliott) and at that point, is it really worth it for the Flames to move a player like Monahan + Elliott for Price?

Does that make them a better team?

Not so sure about that.
Elliots a UFA. Even Johnson is a UFA

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03-17-2017, 12:19 PM
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The options this summer include Shipashov, or putting together trade packages for Tavares or Duchene.

If the GMs of the Islanders and the Avalanche are delusional then there is not much that Bergevin can do.

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03-17-2017, 12:36 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The options this summer include Shipashov, or putting together trade packages for Tavares or Duchene.

If the GMs of the Islanders and the Avalanche are delusional then there is not much that Bergevin can do.
All GMs want the best return they can get but in the case of Tavares and Duchene, they don't need to move them because they're still under contract and none are asking to be traded.

The best trade MB can come up with is trading of the best prospect he can live without like a Charles Hudon who could produce 50 points one day but not the best prospect they will need like potential #1 defensemen in Sergachev.

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03-17-2017, 12:42 PM
  #46
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All GMs want the best return they can get but in the case of Tavares and Duchene, they don't need to move them because they're still under contract and none are asking to be traded.

The best trade MB can come up with is trading of the best prospect he can live without like a Charles Hudon who could produce 50 points one day but not the best prospect they will need like potential #1 defensemen in Sergachev.
Actually, the Islanders will probably need to move Tavares next year. I assume that he's interested in having a meaningful career, and that he'll be going UFA unless he's traded to a legitimate team.

The Islanders should probably have moved Tavares at the deadline. Right now they are slated to draft 13th overall. If they had traded Tavares, they would be drafting much higher, and they would be accumulating additional draft picks as well.

It reminds me of the Columbus Blue Jackets. For years and years they hold on to Rick Nash, and that meant they were always drafting 6th rather than 1st or 2nd. He made them worse by making them better. Now, a few years after finally having traded him, they are an elite team.

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03-17-2017, 12:46 PM
  #47
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Elliots a UFA. Even Johnson is a UFA
didn't know that...all the more reason why that trade isn't very realistic

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03-17-2017, 01:14 PM
  #48
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If we want a top 6 C, a good place to start would be actually drafting centres in the early rounds of the draft.

Aside from Galchenyuk, the last C we drafted in the first round was Kyle Chipchura in 2004. The last time we drafted a C in the 2nd round was Ben Maxwell in 2006 (unless you consider DLR drafted as a C, but I think he was a LW when drafted).

The obvious point here is that in order for a top-6 C to suddenly emerge in an organization, they have to be drafted in the first place. And there have been some nice C's drafted in the 2nd half of the 1st round - Fabbri (21st '14) and Colin White (21st '15) come to mind. Yes, they were drafted before we selected, but we should really consider moving up for a shot at a decent C in the ~20 range. Unfortunately in '14 and '15 we didn't have a 2nd rounder which probably made moving up impossible in those drafts, but with 5 in the next 2 rounds, I hope MB is thinking about moving up and specifically targeting a C.

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03-17-2017, 01:32 PM
  #49
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If we want a top 6 C, a good place to start would be actually drafting centres in the early rounds of the draft.

Aside from Galchenyuk, the last C we drafted in the first round was Kyle Chipchura in 2004. The last time we drafted a C in the 2nd round was Ben Maxwell in 2006 (unless you consider DLR drafted as a C, but I think he was a LW when drafted).

The obvious point here is that in order for a top-6 C to suddenly emerge in an organization, they have to be drafted in the first place. And there have been some nice C's drafted in the 2nd half of the 1st round - Fabbri (21st '14) and Colin White (21st '15) come to mind. Yes, they were drafted before we selected, but we should really consider moving up for a shot at a decent C in the ~20 range. Unfortunately in '14 and '15 we didn't have a 2nd rounder which probably made moving up impossible in those drafts, but with 5 in the next 2 rounds, I hope MB is thinking about moving up and specifically targeting a C.
Well that would explain why we lack centers. It also makes me question this BPA strategy. A theory with BPA is that you simply trade for a piece you are missing. This seems to make sense but it has not exactly worked out for us.

For a top 10 team like us, the odds of drafting a top C are low, so I think we need to invest 1st/2nd round picks in centers regardless of BPA, at least every now and then.

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03-17-2017, 01:36 PM
  #50
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If we want a top 6 C, a good place to start would be actually drafting centres in the early rounds of the draft.

Aside from Galchenyuk, the last C we drafted in the first round was Kyle Chipchura in 2004. The last time we drafted a C in the 2nd round was Ben Maxwell in 2006 (unless you consider DLR drafted as a C, but I think he was a LW when drafted).

The obvious point here is that in order for a top-6 C to suddenly emerge in an organization, they have to be drafted in the first place. And there have been some nice C's drafted in the 2nd half of the 1st round - Fabbri (21st '14) and Colin White (21st '15) come to mind. Yes, they were drafted before we selected, but we should really consider moving up for a shot at a decent C in the ~20 range. Unfortunately in '14 and '15 we didn't have a 2nd rounder which probably made moving up impossible in those drafts, but with 5 in the next 2 rounds, I hope MB is thinking about moving up and specifically targeting a C.
You forgot Leblanc? The 2008-2011 years were brutal drafting years. Bad picks combined with lack of picks because Gainey traded them away. It's the single biggest reason why the depth at center sucks!

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