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Marc Bergevin - At Least We Got a New Coach Edition

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Old
03-17-2017, 03:37 PM
  #1
Lafleurs Guy
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Marc Bergevin - At Least We Got a New Coach Edition

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03-17-2017, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Those are some answers, Mathletic.
Your question is ridiculous te begin with. I just showed you that of those 8 top 6 centers, only 4 of them are actually top 6 centers on this team. Moreover, 2 wouldn't be traded to Montréal. So, you're left to 2 pontetial top 6 centers in 5 years. You're telling me we should fire a GM for not making the trade for one? Would you have traded Subban for Johansen? If you're only creating bigger holes elsewhere to get that center, what's the point?

Besides, I thought something was off when refering to Carter. I just looked, he was traded during the 2011-2012 season, before Bergevin was hired. So, the only top 6 center, Montréal could have acquired under Bergevin, is Ryan Johansen. That's only 1 top 6 center, in 5 years, Bergevin could have acquired that could have improved this team.

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03-17-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Your question is ridiculous te begin with. I just showed you that of those 8 top 6 centers, only 4 of them are actually top 6 centers on this team. Moreover, 2 wouldn't be traded to Montréal. So, you're left to 2 pontetial top 6 centers in 5 years. You're telling me we should fire a GM for not making the trade for one? Would you have traded Subban for Johansen? If you're only creating bigger holes elsewhere to get that center, what's the point?
It's ridiculous to ask how long we can expect to wait for Bergevin to fix the biggest problem with this team since he's arrived?

Interesting theory.

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03-17-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Your question is ridiculous te begin with. I just showed you that of those 8 top 6 centers, only 4 of them are actually top 6 centers on this team. Moreover, 2 wouldn't be traded to Montréal. So, you're left to 2 pontetial top 6 centers in 5 years. You're telling me we should fire a GM for not making the trade for one? Would you have traded Subban for Johansen? If you're only creating bigger holes elsewhere to get that center, what's the point?

Besides, I thought something was off when refering to Carter. I just looked, he was traded during the 2011-2012 season, before Bergevin was hired. So, the only top 6 center, Montréal could have acquired under Bergevin, is Ryan Johansen.
I agree, top centres have not been available recently. However, top wingers have been available.

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03-17-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
It's ridiculous to ask how long we can expect to wait for Bergevin to fix the biggest problem with this team since he's arrived?

Interesting theory.
If only 1 of them is traded every 5 years, then expect to wait 150 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I agree, top centres have not been available recently. However, top wingers have been available.
Some have but I'm not entirely against Bergevin's approach of nickling and diming for players like Vanek and Ryder at the deadline. We can complain all day long about not getting Hall, for instance. That being said, Chiarelli said openly he was looking for a young right D. Unless you're telling me you're trading Subban for Hall, I'd like to know who you were trading for TH.

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03-17-2017, 03:54 PM
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If only 1 of them is traded every 5 years, then expect to wait 150 years.
So that settles it: Bergevin gets 150 years to prove to us that he's not a ****** GM.

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03-17-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
So that settles it: Bergevin gets 150 years to prove to us that he's not a ****** GM.
If he gets one in 150 years, he'd be average. To prove he's **** we'd have to wait longer than that, actually.

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03-17-2017, 04:03 PM
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Signing Julien was fine. Unfortunately, he was unable to bring Bergeron with him.

Let's be realistic. Many teams are on the market for high grade players who play any position. Bergevin can't acquire anyone by brute force or by spending more than the cap allows.

That's life.

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Old
03-17-2017, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Signing Julien was fine. Unfortunately, he was unable to bring Bergeron with him.

Let's be realistic. Many teams are on the market for high grade players who play any position. Bergevin can't acquire anyone by brute force or by spending more than the cap allows.

That's life.
Yes, life is so hard for millionaires in high level positions. We should all be so humbled that we have a GM who doesn't try.

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Old
03-17-2017, 04:36 PM
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That Aaltonen guy plays center and is good on draws apparently. Could have been a could signature for us.

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Old
03-17-2017, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
If only 1 of them is traded every 5 years, then expect to wait 150 years.



Some have but I'm not entirely against Bergevin's approach of nickling and diming for players like Vanek and Ryder at the deadline. We can complain all day long about not getting Hall, for instance. That being said, Chiarelli said openly he was looking for a young right D. Unless you're telling me you're trading Subban for Hall, I'd like to know who you were trading for TH.
I don't care about not getting top 6 players all that much to be honest. I care about Flynn playing over kids in the top 6 though. And it happened for way too many games the past 2 seasons.

Let's hope things will change under CJ.

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03-17-2017, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Signing Julien was fine. Unfortunately, he was unable to bring Bergeron with him.

Let's be realistic. Many teams are on the market for high grade players who play any position. Bergevin can't acquire anyone by brute force or by spending more than the cap allows.

That's life.
So...we do nothing and we will be nothing 'cause that team can never tank, so we'll always be good enough to finish in the last tier because of Carey Price, yet not good enough to win anything, so that it's rinse and repeat till...Carey Price retires?

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Old
03-17-2017, 04:41 PM
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So...we do nothing and we will be nothing 'cause that team can never tank, so we'll always be good enough to finish in the last tier because of Carey Price, yet not good enough to win anything, so that it's rinse and repeat till...Carey Price retires?
But then tanking isn't acceptable, even though we sucked for a long time under Houle and nothing happened, everyone came back.

Apparently Montreal would never survive a rebuild but Toronto can. Some weird logic there.

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03-17-2017, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Signing Julien was fine. Unfortunately, he was unable to bring Bergeron with him.

Let's be realistic. Many teams are on the market for high grade players who play any position. Bergevin can't acquire anyone by brute force or by spending more than the cap allows.

That's life.
lolz.

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Old
03-17-2017, 04:58 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
But then tanking isn't acceptable, even though we sucked for a long time under Houle and nothing happened, everyone came back.

Apparently Montreal would never survive a rebuild but Toronto can. Some weird logic there.
And didn't an American have to come in and essentially save the habs because no one in Quebec/Canada wanted to buy the team?

After Gillette turned the franchise around Molson came back into the picture.

The NHL would never move the habs from Montreal, but consecutive losing seasons is going to hurt Molsons bottom line. As far as I know Molson isn't in the business of losing money. He gets 4 mill a playoff game. The playoffs is guaranteed 8 Million for him. You think he will be happy to lose 16-24 Million dollars "tanking" ?? Fair weather fans will jump off the bandwagon. Last year you could get tickets to a game for half price and the Bell had many many empty seats in it. Joe Blow fan won't stick around for a losing team.

The only way there will be a sustained multi year tank is if its out of pure incompetence like the leafs under Burke. Even with the leafs tanking they started throwing Waffels on the ice and had to give Mike B the biggest contract in coaching history to placate their fans.

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03-17-2017, 05:05 PM
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Off topic but I wonder if we'll ever see a female GM, anywhere in the NHL.

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03-17-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Off topic but I wonder if we'll ever see a female GM, anywhere in the NHL.
Might have to make sure that the USA is compensating them fairly first

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:14 PM
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Might have to make sure that the USA is compensating them fairly first
Huh?

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Yes, life is so hard for millionaires in high level positions. We should all be so humbled that we have a GM who doesn't try.
If there is one thing this GM does is try. Other GMs and insiders have said that MB is one of the most active GMs in the sense that he looks into any and every situation (free agents and trades). So saying "we have a GM who doesn't try" is wrong.

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03-17-2017, 05:18 PM
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Rapala
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But then tanking isn't acceptable, even though we sucked for a long time under Houle and nothing happened, everyone came back.

Apparently Montreal would never survive a rebuild but Toronto can. Some weird logic there.
Toronto managed the situation very well by getting High Profile Proven Hockey Heads before the tank.
There isn't one thing our organization did since day one of this regime that is even remotely close.
There also isn't a semi knowlegable Habs Fan that I know who wouldn't support an upfront plan to rebuild if the right people are at the helm. Finally after five years and a wasting core people need to face up to facts that not only is this build cooked but IMO there is no real relief in sight at any level.
We are probably locked into this status quo/catch 22 scenario until close to the quarter century mark.

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:24 PM
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Off topic but I wonder if we'll ever see a female GM, anywhere in the NHL.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...e-assistant-gm

There was Angela Gorgone who becamse assistant GM in Anaheim. She was also in the Devils and Predators organizations in some front office roles.

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:31 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
Toronto managed the situation very well by getting High Profile Proven Hockey Heads before the tank.
There isn't one thing our organization did since day one of this regime that is even remotely close.
There also isn't a semi knowlegable Habs Fan that I know who wouldn't support an upfront plan to rebuild if the right people are at the helm. Finally after five years and a wasting core people need to face up to facts that not only is this build cooked but IMO there is no real relief in sight at any level.
We are probably locked into this status quo/catch 22 scenario until close to the quarter century mark.
This.


What I think some fail to grasp is that while it's clear that the results themselves (on and off ice) are never going to be perfect, it is still possible to evaluate and hold accountable the process.

MB's process has been flawed in multiple areas. If anything, the on ice results have largely buffered how poorly he's managed various crucial elements, and this largely on the performance merits of assets he not only had no role in acquiring, but in PK's case, did a lot to undermine.

He's just not a very good manager. Poor planning, no strategic consistency, terrible HR management & evaluation, average at best roster management, poor PR/communication.

The worst in the league? Maybe not. But far from the best and if you have an org. Committed to excellence, then he's gotta go

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:49 PM
  #23
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapala View Post
Toronto managed the situation very well by getting High Profile Proven Hockey Heads before the tank.
There isn't one thing our organization did since day one of this regime that is even remotely close.
There also isn't a semi knowlegable Habs Fan that I know who wouldn't support an upfront plan to rebuild if the right people are at the helm. Finally after five years and a wasting core people need to face up to facts that not only is this build cooked but IMO there is no real relief in sight at any level.
We are probably locked into this status quo/catch 22 scenario until close to the quarter century mark.
I don't agree on this. We shouldn't just give up on this core. Price in his prime we can't just pack up and go. We have to take an honest run and go for it.

If it doesn't work, then we can deal away assets for picks and go the rebuild route down the road. It's not a waste to try to win with this core.

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:52 PM
  #24
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Huh?
I'm pretty sure he's referring to the US National Women's team who are talking about boycotting the tournament due to unreasonably low remuneration.

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Old
03-17-2017, 05:57 PM
  #25
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Habs drafted a centre 3rd overall. Bergiven chose to employ a coach (longer than he should have) that stifled the development of there only top prospect.

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