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Who Would You Fear More, Messier Or Stevens?

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Old
03-17-2017, 08:50 PM
  #1
Supreme King
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Who Would You Fear More, Messier Or Stevens?

Obviously both played different positions bit both were widely feared throughout their tenure in the NHL.

Which one struck more fear into their opponents, Mark Messier or Scott Stevens?

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03-17-2017, 09:19 PM
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Big Phil
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Good question. Hmmmm. My gut says Messier right away because with Stevens you may have purposely avoided coming across the line at his side of the ice but other than that you didn`t need your head on a swivel like you did with Messier. Stevens caught you coming across the blue line but there were dirtier defensemen - like someone such as Pronger - that would do dirty things to you behind the play.

This is where Messier comes in. He might spear you in the groin. Or elbow you. And chances are your teammates won`t touch it either. I have no idea why really, I mean, Messier struck fear in his opponents and was a good fighter himself in his early years but there was this thing about him where he could get away with stuff on the ice and the other team would just be happy to let him do his thing and not poke the bear. Honestly, look at old clips of Messier, even up until 2004 when he speared Martin Strbak in the groin. How these players didn't have their teammates come to their defense is beyond me but Messier did this all of the time without someone challenging him. So for that reason alone I pick Messier.

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03-17-2017, 10:10 PM
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Ogie Goldthorpe
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Good question. Hmmmm. My gut says Messier right away because with Stevens you may have purposely avoided coming across the line at his side of the ice but other than that you didn`t need your head on a swivel like you did with Messier. Stevens caught you coming across the blue line but there were dirtier defensemen - like someone such as Pronger - that would do dirty things to you behind the play.

This is where Messier comes in. He might spear you in the groin. Or elbow you. And chances are your teammates won`t touch it either. I have no idea why really, I mean, Messier struck fear in his opponents and was a good fighter himself in his early years but there was this thing about him where he could get away with stuff on the ice and the other team would just be happy to let him do his thing and not poke the bear. Honestly, look at old clips of Messier, even up until 2004 when he speared Martin Strbak in the groin. How these players didn't have their teammates come to their defense is beyond me but Messier did this all of the time without someone challenging him. So for that reason alone I pick Messier.
The refs always seemed super eager to jump in if someone looked like they were going to fight Messier. McSorley was the only one who managed to get more than a couple of licks in before the zebras got in the way.

Still, Messier was probably scarier in that he'd **** you up and then score on you.

Stevens was more likely to send you to hospital, though.

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03-17-2017, 10:15 PM
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I'd fear Stevens more if my star player had an history of concussion.

Messier for losing.

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03-17-2017, 10:41 PM
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It's a question of: Do you want the shoulder...


or the elbow...?



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Old
03-17-2017, 11:38 PM
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BrianE
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Originally Posted by Supreme King View Post
Obviously both played different positions bit both were widely feared throughout their tenure in the NHL.

Which one struck more fear into their opponents, Mark Messier or Scott Stevens?
The answer is obvious....

http://battleofalberta.blogspot.com/...ust-skate.html

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03-18-2017, 09:55 AM
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DisgruntledGoat
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Its kind of an immovable object vs unstoppable force question, isn't it?

Thing is, both these guys were in the same division for a long time and met in the playoffs. Its weird to say this about Scott freaking Stevens but Messier never really seemed to have much trouble against him. He was always pretty effective against the Devils.

That's not a knock on Stevens. It probably just wasn't a good matchup for him. He had more success against Lindros. I think Messier's physicality and speed made him harder to handle, and that was true for most defensemen.

Still, there probably wasn't a single scarier event in that era than a forward catching a pass in his skates and hoping like hell that Stevens had just gotten off the ice.

In the end, though, I'll say Messier. He could just hurt you in so many different ways.

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03-18-2017, 10:11 AM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Have to go with Messier.

Like a shark, constantly on the move looking for prey. Think it was a Flyers game where the camera followed a full Messier shift in isolation on him. Bill Clement commented there were 4 separate instances that were penalty worthy, none of them provoked or called. Had to be a real pain just being on the ice against him.

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03-18-2017, 11:00 AM
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DisgruntledGoat
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In the playoffs one year Messier and New Jersey's Scott Stevens went into the corner and, according to Rangers goalie Mike Richter, "You couldn't even see what happened, it took place so quickly, but Messier came out of the corner skating toward the bench with his hands held out for a new stick, and Stevens was on his knees holding his head. Messier had broken his stick against Stevens. And at the time Messier played with an aluminum stick."

http://www.si.com/vault/2002/12/09/8...-hed-rather-do

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03-18-2017, 11:18 AM
  #10
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Legally Stevens, but Messier without those boundaries.

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03-18-2017, 11:55 AM
  #11
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I check under my bed for Scott Stevens.

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03-18-2017, 11:58 AM
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Killion
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I check under my bed for Scott Stevens.
... and in your closet for Felix Potvin.








.... who btw is Head Coach of the Magog Cantonniers of the Quebec Midget AAA League... son Xavier also a goalie who did play for Magog, now in the QMJHL if Im not mistaken.

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03-18-2017, 12:34 PM
  #13
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... and in your closet for Felix Potvin.
Haha, you know, I'd be afraid of him too. Ron Hextall's another one of those scary figures like Stevens, but Potvin didn't back down one bit.

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03-18-2017, 12:43 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Good question. Hmmmm. My gut says Messier right away because with Stevens you may have purposely avoided coming across the line at his side of the ice but other than that you didn`t need your head on a swivel like you did with Messier. Stevens caught you coming across the blue line but there were dirtier defensemen - like someone such as Pronger - that would do dirty things to you behind the play.

This is where Messier comes in. He might spear you in the groin. Or elbow you. And chances are your teammates won`t touch it either. I have no idea why really, I mean, Messier struck fear in his opponents and was a good fighter himself in his early years but there was this thing about him where he could get away with stuff on the ice and the other team would just be happy to let him do his thing and not poke the bear. Honestly, look at old clips of Messier, even up until 2004 when he speared Martin Strbak in the groin. How these players didn't have their teammates come to their defense is beyond me but Messier did this all of the time without someone challenging him. So for that reason alone I pick Messier.
It's quite shocking how there was never any retribution for Messier and his tendency to play beyond dirty. I am a big Messier fan, but surely someone should have made him pay for what he did throughout his career.

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03-18-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Haha, you know, I'd be afraid of him too. Ron Hextall's another one of those scary figures like Stevens, but Potvin didn't back down one bit.
... very true... but if I had to score which of these two guys, Stevens or Messier would be more "worrying" to play against?.... that would be Messier.... he had as a fwd just so much more ice to utilize, was a real threat offensively and a guy I considered a Dirty Player. Nasty. His physicality at times unconscionable, win at any & all costs and if that means sending people to the infirmary too bad so sad. Mean streak in him a mile-wide. Broke "Code" repeatedly throughout his career.

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03-18-2017, 12:48 PM
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DisgruntledGoat
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It's quite shocking how there was never any retribution for Messier and his tendency to play beyond dirty. I am a big Messier fan, but surely someone should have made him pay for what he did throughout his career.
He had that Gordie Howe quality, though. Head on a swivel, carried his elbows and stick high, and maybe harder to knock off his skates than anyone I've ever seen. You could take a run at him, but there was always a pretty good chance you'd come out worse for the wear for it.

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03-18-2017, 12:57 PM
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Killion
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It's quite shocking how there was never any retribution for Messier and his tendency to play beyond dirty. I am a big Messier fan, but surely someone should have made him pay for what he did throughout his career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
He had that Gordie Howe quality, though. Head on a swivel, carried his elbows and stick high, and maybe harder to knock off his skates than anyone I've ever seen. You could take a run at him, but there was always a pretty good chance you'd come out worse for the wear for it.
Yeah that was the "thing" with him & with Bobby Clarke in Philly a generation earlier. If any one did challenge him he'd as likely as not if really pressed just wind up and pole ax whomever. If you look at the video above posted by Panther, in one play after elbowing a Flame into oblivion... not one Calgary player dropped his gloves, grabbed him, wents nuts. Lanny McDonald lecturing him and that was about it as he skates away beaking off.

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03-18-2017, 01:18 PM
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The fear with Messier is that he does some dirty **** because he has a garbage soul.

The fear with Stevens is if you **** up, he'll make you pay for it.

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03-18-2017, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
In the playoffs one year Messier and New Jersey's Scott Stevens went into the corner and, according to Rangers goalie Mike Richter, "You couldn't even see what happened, it took place so quickly, but Messier came out of the corner skating toward the bench with his hands held out for a new stick, and Stevens was on his knees holding his head. Messier had broken his stick against Stevens. And at the time Messier played with an aluminum stick."

http://www.si.com/vault/2002/12/09/8...-hed-rather-do
awesome.

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03-18-2017, 04:59 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Yeah that was the "thing" with him & with Bobby Clarke in Philly a generation earlier. If any one did challenge him he'd as likely as not if really pressed just wind up and pole ax whomever. If you look at the video above posted by Panther, in one play after elbowing a Flame into oblivion... not one Calgary player dropped his gloves, grabbed him, wents nuts. Lanny McDonald lecturing him and that was about it as he skates away beaking off.
Yeah, guys like Messier, Clark, even Kenny Linsemen, not worth the risk. You couldn't win or even get even. If you retired from the game the day after challenging them, they might hunt you down until they got the better of the feud.

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03-18-2017, 05:27 PM
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As a goalie I'd fear Messier more, much more. That wristshot of his flying down the off-wing was simply deadly.
Same goes if I was a Dman.
As a forward...Stevens all week long and twice on Sunday's heh

The thing about Messier that sometimes gets lost in all the elbows and rough play is that Messier was fast, extremely fast even by today's standards.
While most of the hype about the '87 Canada Cup was about 99 and 66 and rightly so, there was another duo that was almost as important...teaming up Messier and Gartner against the Russian's top line. They were 2 of the few Canadian players that could not only keep up with them but actually outskate them to boot.


Last edited by Rhiessan71: 03-18-2017 at 05:36 PM.
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03-18-2017, 06:00 PM
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Stevens

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Old
03-18-2017, 07:08 PM
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Supreme King
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Yeah that was the "thing" with him & with Bobby Clarke in Philly a generation earlier. If any one did challenge him he'd as likely as not if really pressed just wind up and pole ax whomever. If you look at the video above posted by Panther, in one play after elbowing a Flame into oblivion... not one Calgary player dropped his gloves, grabbed him, wents nuts. Lanny McDonald lecturing him and that was about it as he skates away beaking off.
I agree.

Messier could dish out punishment that was unparalleled and he did it in a fashion that players took notice. I'm just surprised that many of the players and teams at that time did not strike back in a similar way. But then again, that shows you how feared and respected he was.

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03-18-2017, 07:49 PM
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ConorMcGregor
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The law of the jungle. Animals tend to recognize a poisonous snake.

It is a game full of a bunch of supposed alpha males, but even among alpha's, you have a guy people do not want to get caught by because he won't just fight with fists, he might pull a revolver.

Messier could be crazy. His intensity was not posturing like many of the other guys and people knew it. Challenging him could very well get you a butt end in the face, or as many players said "his follow through on a shot would be aimed at your eyes". And nobody could "get even" with Messier or send him a message. He would take on your toughest fighter without ducking them, and shove the message up their butts. And probably elbow everyone on the team who got close later in the game for good measure. Defensemen he was forechecking on would wildly throw the puck in any direction without looking just to get out of the way if they knew he was bearing down on them because they knew he would try to headshot them.

Fighting him was like fighting a hulking guy at an insane asylum. Sure you might be a better fighter. But this is a lunatic you are messing with and he might pull a shank.

Just tying up with him the wrong way in a faceoff circle or clutched and grabbed with him it could get you a full tomahawk stick swing to the head or face. People gave him space for a reason.



Messier probably has more elbowing videos online than any hockey player in history.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:17 PM
  #25
DisgruntledGoat
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Originally Posted by ConorMcGregor View Post
The law of the jungle. Animals tend to recognize a poisonous snake.

It is a game full of a bunch of supposed alpha males, but even among alpha's, you have a guy people do not want to get caught by because he won't just fight with fists, he might pull a revolver.

Messier could be crazy. His intensity was not posturing like many of the other guys and people knew it. Challenging him could very well get you a butt end in the face, or as many players said "his follow through on a shot would be aimed at your eyes". And nobody could "get even" with Messier or send him a message. He would take on your toughest fighter without ducking them, and shove the message up their butts. And probably elbow everyone on the team who got close later in the game for good measure. Defensemen he was forechecking on would wildly throw the puck in any direction without looking just to get out of the way if they knew he was bearing down on them because they knew he would try to headshot them.

Fighting him was like fighting a hulking guy at an insane asylum. Sure you might be a better fighter. But this is a lunatic you are messing with and he might pull a shank.

Just tying up with him the wrong way in a faceoff circle or clutched and grabbed with him it could get you a full tomahawk stick swing to the head or face. People gave him space for a reason.



Messier probably has more elbowing videos online than any hockey player in history.
I have NEVER seen that clip before! I always thought this and the Jamie Macoun sucker-punch were lost to history. Great find!

(And that IS vicious. Wow)

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