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Who Would You Fear More, Messier Or Stevens?

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Old
03-19-2017, 12:27 PM
  #26
Big Phil
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Quote:
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It's quite shocking how there was never any retribution for Messier and his tendency to play beyond dirty. I am a big Messier fan, but surely someone should have made him pay for what he did throughout his career.
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I agree.

Messier could dish out punishment that was unparalleled and he did it in a fashion that players took notice. I'm just surprised that many of the players and teams at that time did not strike back in a similar way. But then again, that shows you how feared and respected he was.
It was a respect thing, but definitely a fear thing too. Messier playing mad wasn't someone you wanted to run into. It is really hard to explain but in the same way Gordie Howe had a lot of that leeway as well. All of the stories you hear about Howe doing things behind the scenes to players, like even breaking their wrist with a slash because of some form of retribution for something that happened 2 years earlier. Who knows. But for whatever reason Howe fought a lot less than someone who would do those things on the ice and I suspect it was because he was a good fighter but also there was that chance that Howe could flip out on you next. So the same thing applies with Messier, we just have more footage of this happening with him.

You think this doesn't happen to grown men in the NHL? Of course it does. In 1987 Probert was involved in a line brawl with the Sabres and none other than Tom Barrasso comes over and tries to calm him down. Probert doesn't care that its a goalie and he punches Barrasso right in the mask to the point where it just flew off. You would think the rest of the Sabres would have been livid but nothing happened to Probert. Even Barrasso just sort of stood there shell shocked and didn't dare come any closer to him. Probert was just another one of those loose cannons.

Maybe the best modern example is Chris Pronger who did a lot of dirty stuff and had to answer to it far less than you would think someone with his record did. In the 1998 playoffs Pronger is being upended by Igor Larionov and as he is falling he ensures that his stick whacks Larionov in the ear on the way down. It looked accidental, but it's Pronger, so it wasn't. Pronger got away with a lot on the ice. Chara isn't a dirty player, but not one Montreal Canadien dared drop the mitts with him after that horrible collision with Max Pacieoretty in 2011. So yeah, there are players like that.

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Old
03-22-2017, 05:48 PM
  #27
MadLuke
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Just saw that video, and made me thought of that thread:



Seem that he established himself as someone that would defend himself using is stick as a weapon right in is rookie season, even against a future hall of famer.

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03-22-2017, 07:03 PM
  #28
Sutter pours bourbon
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Messier if I don't have the puck, Stevens if I do.

The positional differences mean one of these guy couldn't skate all the way across the ice to butt-end you away from the play. Not to mention most of the scary stuff I've seen from Stevens was at least legal at the time. Messier was so unpredictable... that's scarier to me.

I liked seeing the footage in the Clark vs Lucic thread of Clark going after Messier. I'd be curious to see any footage of either Stevens or Mess ending up on the wrong end of any exchange. That's part of what made 'em such boogey-men... they lost on the scoreboard (occasionally) but never in the alley.

I mean if Steve Kasper or Tikanen have reps as being the guy who shut down Gretzky (rightly or wrongly), surely somebody out there got Messier's number a couple of times? No?

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03-22-2017, 07:32 PM
  #29
Ogie Goldthorpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutter pours bourbon View Post
Messier if I don't have the puck, Stevens if I do.

The positional differences mean one of these guy couldn't skate all the way across the ice to butt-end you away from the play. Not to mention most of the scary stuff I've seen from Stevens was at least legal at the time. Messier was so unpredictable... that's scarier to me.

I liked seeing the footage in the Clark vs Lucic thread of Clark going after Messier. I'd be curious to see any footage of either Stevens or Mess ending up on the wrong end of any exchange. That's part of what made 'em such boogey-men... they lost on the scoreboard (occasionally) but never in the alley.

I mean if Steve Kasper or Tikanen have reps as being the guy who shut down Gretzky (rightly or wrongly), surely somebody out there got Messier's number a couple of times? No?
Marty McSorley got the best of Messier... to the extent that anyone got the best of Messier. Both times the officials broke things up pretty quickly.



Bobby Clarke was another who rarely, if ever, had to answer for his extracurricular activities.

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03-22-2017, 07:48 PM
  #30
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Marty McSorley got the best of Messier... to the extent that anyone got the best of Messier. Both times the officials broke things up pretty quickly.
And gave Marty the extra 2 minutes. I guess for absorbing the initial punch?

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03-23-2017, 01:21 AM
  #31
VanIslander
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A young Gordie Howe.



He didn't fight much because no one would! He splattered noses wth one punch (tough guy Lou Fortunato). His offseason hauling of cement bags as a labourer was said to impress the strongest blue collar workers on construction sites.

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03-26-2017, 07:08 PM
  #32
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Marty McSorley got the best of Messier... to the extent that anyone got the best of Messier. Both times the officials broke things up pretty quickly.



Bobby Clarke was another who rarely, if ever, had to answer for his extracurricular activities.
Wow, well there you go. Marty was killing Messier there. Of course, this is an older Messier, but still, those sorts of things never happened with him. Marty is an old teammate of his as well. Yeah, I don't know why the refs jumped in, my guess is because Messier was getting pounded and they were trying to save him.

So I guess there is no shame in losing to Marty in a fight, but it still doesn't explain the hundreds of times when Messier didn't even have someone challenge him.

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03-27-2017, 10:52 AM
  #33
tony d
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Scott Stevens for me.

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03-27-2017, 11:02 AM
  #34
wintersej
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These guys make the Cookes and Marchands of today's NHL look like freaking Lady Byng contenders.

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03-27-2017, 07:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by wintersej View Post
These guys make the Cookes and Marchands of today's NHL look like freaking Lady Byng contenders.
I personally see Messier, Stevens, and (to a lesser extent) Marchand as a type, but Cooke something entirely different.

Messier and Stevens were physical beasts that could lay you out with open-ice hits or elbows in the corner. Marchand, being smaller, was more like an agitator but also a tough, resilient, grinding skilled player.

Cooke, though a decent NHL player skills-wise, was just a cheap-shot artist.

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Old
03-28-2017, 04:07 PM
  #36
Big Phil
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The funny thing about Messier is that he didn't dive, he didn't embellish, he seemingly had no fear on the ice, was as tough as they came and was cool as a cucumber even after his team allowed an overtime goal in the playoffs.

Then.............on the flip side Messier is a self-admitted emotional man. He'll be the first to tell you that he'll cry at the drop of a hat (awards ceremonies, speeches, etc.) and yet NOBODY makes fun of Mess for this. If that doesn't tell you someone is feared...........

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Old
03-29-2017, 02:04 PM
  #37
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A beautiful sight to behold, Messier getting pounded. It's too bad Probert never gave him a beating, even Messier knew his limits

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Old
03-29-2017, 05:34 PM
  #38
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutter pours bourbon View Post
Messier if I don't have the puck, Stevens if I do.

The positional differences mean one of these guy couldn't skate all the way across the ice to butt-end you away from the play. Not to mention most of the scary stuff I've seen from Stevens was at least legal at the time. Messier was so unpredictable... that's scarier to me.

I liked seeing the footage in the Clark vs Lucic thread of Clark going after Messier. I'd be curious to see any footage of either Stevens or Mess ending up on the wrong end of any exchange. That's part of what made 'em such boogey-men... they lost on the scoreboard (occasionally) but never in the alley.

I mean if Steve Kasper or Tikanen have reps as being the guy who shut down Gretzky (rightly or wrongly), surely somebody out there got Messier's number a couple of times? No?
Lindros handled both Messier & Stevens.

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