HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Does Nic Petan Still Have A Future With The Jets?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-18-2017, 07:46 PM
  #51
LowLefty
Registered User
 
LowLefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 83
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Small player stigma + stigma of being expendable to one of the worst teams in the league? NHL teams still have massive biases about these things. No doubt a team would give him a chance for free eg. MTL + Byron or Perrault + ANH and he'd probably do very well but you're absolutely not getting a Theodore for him. They might not even do it for Roslovic, you're living in a dream world if you think that.
Nothing in my post refers to what they could get for him.

Anyway, can't follow your reasoning - players are judged on ability and stigma's carry zero weight.

Most teams recognize that the Jets have a deep prospect / youth pool and if any of them become available, they'll jump if the player fits their needs.

There are teams out there that would be interested in Petan's skill set and just because the Jets are not able or willing to give him the minutes he may need to shine, doesn't mean others won't.

LowLefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2017, 08:21 PM
  #52
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
I think you are on the right track but we need to add considerably to Petan. But I like the thinking.
I'd do Petan and our 2018 first. I'm willing to bank on us breaking our next season.

surixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2017, 09:12 PM
  #53
Flair Hay
Registered User
 
Flair Hay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,850
vCash: 50
I'm not going to write him off yet at all. I think if we gave him one of our top six wingers and moved a third liner up we could win more games.

His PP production has been better than most. If his 5 on 5 production didn't go up a ton with good linemates though, he'd be out of the lineup.

Flair Hay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2017, 09:22 PM
  #54
AWSAA
.............
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,571
vCash: 1841
There's no better time than now to move him up in the lineup, see how he plays alongside skilled linemates. Petan's game is tailor made to support players who can finish.

Or we could just leave Connor & Roslovic in the AHL and allow Thorburn to play out the rest of the season. This being a development year and all.

AWSAA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2017, 09:31 PM
  #55
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
 
veganhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowLefty View Post
Nothing in my post refers to what they could get for him.

Anyway, can't follow your reasoning - players are judged on ability and stigma's carry zero weight.

Most teams recognize that the Jets have a deep prospect / youth pool and if any of them become available, they'll jump if the player fits their needs.

There are teams out there that would be interested in Petan's skill set and just because the Jets are not able or willing to give him the minutes he may need to shine, doesn't mean others won't.
Players are not judged solely on ability, that is so demonstrably false I don't even know how to respond to that.

And again there are variables beyond ability and results that mean Petan will not garner much of return in terms of defensive prospect. If you don't think there is a size bias or whatever other bias in NHL management I would say that's pretty naive.

veganhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 12:10 AM
  #56
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,471
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
See the thing is I don't know that Theodore is more than a number 4. He's a couple years older than Kyle and hasn't established himself. If I'm dealing Connor it's in a package to get a legit number 2/3 that's young. Roslovic and a 2nd I'd do for Theodore. Also we will lose a decent forward at the expansion draft. If it's Perrault we will need Connors scoring.
Theodore is 4 months younger than Morrissey.
Morrissey - 72 NHL gms, 18 pts.
Theodore - 49 games, 16 pts.

Theodore is trying to break into Anaheim's stacked D. There's a good chance Morrissey would not have been able to break in there either.

I'm very excited for Connor's scoring, especially the way he has started producing in the A but that is not what we are most in need of.

Even if we lose MP, it is a lot easier to find a LW than a C. Petan might be the replacement for MP. He won't score as much as Connor is likely to but he might match MP's production in a year or two. If we had our choice of Roslo + 2nd or Connor it would be a hard decision because - C. I probably go with Roslo and the 2nd in the end. I don't know that would get it done though.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 12:19 AM
  #57
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,471
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
I think you are on the right track but we need to add considerably to Petan. But I like the thinking.
Yah, I love the thinking myself. I don't think Anaheim would even bother to counter that kind of offer though, unless the add is worth about 3 times as much as Petan is. He was a mid 2nd round pick. He is undersized. He has only average speed. He hasn't been able to produce in the NHL. Those are not very good selling points. Obviously those things are not the whole story but that is what some other organization is going to see. He is ours so we see the potential.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 01:03 AM
  #58
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,978
vCash: 500
Petan is a player where the trade value return is most likely less than the keeping return.

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 03:56 AM
  #59
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Petan is a player where the trade value return is most likely less than the keeping return.
Completely agree. I think the best case scenario is that the Jets keep talented 3rd and 4th lines that can score, and Petan can contribute there and on the PP.

Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Little-Wheeler
Dano-Petan-Armia
Copp-Lowry-Roslovic

Perreault gone via expansion draft or trade, loosening up some cap space in the next few seasons.

Whileee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 05:20 AM
  #60
Sperss1997
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Aarhus
Country: Denmark
Posts: 370
vCash: 500
When Petan has played 40-50 games without being Thorburned we can take this question more seriously. Having Thorburn in your lineup with a talented young player is a disaster. Having Thorburn in your lineup as a NHL team, is a disgrace. I really dont get it!!

Sperss1997 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 05:27 AM
  #61
Asiantuntija
Registered User
 
Asiantuntija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,042
vCash: 500
Petan is really good. He does solid work at powerplay as you can see from stats.

Asiantuntija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 07:58 AM
  #62
ps241
Playoff push 2017
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,030
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Theodore is 4 months younger than Morrissey.
Morrissey - 72 NHL gms, 18 pts.
Theodore - 49 games, 16 pts.

Theodore is trying to break into Anaheim's stacked D. There's a good chance Morrissey would not have been able to break in there either.

I'm very excited for Connor's scoring, especially the way he has started producing in the A but that is not what we are most in need of.

Even if we lose MP, it is a lot easier to find a LW than a C. Petan might be the replacement for MP. He won't score as much as Connor is likely to but he might match MP's production in a year or two. If we had our choice of Roslo + 2nd or Connor it would be a hard decision because - C. I probably go with Roslo and the 2nd in the end. I don't know that would get it done though.
Interesting. I have liked the idea of a trade for Theodore but have to admit I was alarmed when we played the Ducks early this season and he was getting trashed by their fan base for making brain dead plays in the D zone "as usual". I don't know if it was just a bad stretch of games or growing pains but he had a collective Board stink on him. I wonder how his advanced stats are?

As a few have said I think he would cost us either Connor or Roslovic +. The Ducks are in a weird spot Getz and Perry turn 32 this off season and Kesler turns 33 and that is their top 3 point producers? Their window has to be closing. Their future will require them to swap D for O since their prospect cupboard is overflowing with D and pretty shaky up front.

We are going to have to coach Petan up before he has any trade value IMO.

ps241 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 09:07 AM
  #63
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Theodore is 4 months younger than Morrissey.
Morrissey - 72 NHL gms, 18 pts.
Theodore - 49 games, 16 pts.

Theodore is trying to break into Anaheim's stacked D. There's a good chance Morrissey would not have been able to break in there either.

I'm very excited for Connor's scoring, especially the way he has started producing in the A but that is not what we are most in need of.

Even if we lose MP, it is a lot easier to find a LW than a C. Petan might be the replacement for MP. He won't score as much as Connor is likely to but he might match MP's production in a year or two. If we had our choice of Roslo + 2nd or Connor it would be a hard decision because - C. I probably go with Roslo and the 2nd in the end. I don't know that would get it done though.
It's not the points I'm worried about with him, it's the rest of his game. He's finished 7th among d on his team in CF% last year and thats where he is this year (less than 50% and a negative rel CF% each year). His XGF% this year is a real poor 45.63 and ranks 7th among dmen on his team. So while his hot stretch as a rookie where he got some points was nice he hasn't shown near the all around game that Josh has shown at this point. He's definitely still young and has potential but sometimes you need to look a bit closer than points at player like Theodore.

surixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 09:39 AM
  #64
LowLefty
Registered User
 
LowLefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 83
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Players are not judged solely on ability, that is so demonstrably false I don't even know how to respond to that.

And again there are variables beyond ability and results that mean Petan will not garner much of return in terms of defensive prospect. If you don't think there is a size bias or whatever other bias in NHL management I would say that's pretty naive.
Didn't say they were -
I was referring more to your comment on the fact that because he belongs to the Jets and they may not have a "fit" for him, doesn't mean a thing to other teams - you give NHL team management zero credit when you make statements like that.

Petan's skill set may be a perfect fit for a team looking for a young center they can work with and develop. His size will obviously play a factor to some extent, depending on the team and their needs - but the fact that he was part of the Jets organization will not.

Please don't assume opinions that differ from yours are naļve - it could be viewed as condescending.

LowLefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 11:02 AM
  #65
Jimby
Reformed Optimist
 
Jimby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 728
vCash: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post

We are going to have to coach Petan up before he has any trade value IMO.

Value is determined by the buyer - not the seller. Seems to me that if no other team sees Petan as a good prospect that would be proof he is being overvalued by Jets Fans.

Jimby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 11:12 AM
  #66
ps241
Playoff push 2017
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,030
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimby View Post
Value is determined by the buyer - not the seller. Seems to me that if no other team sees Petan as a good prospect that would be proof he is being overvalued by Jets Fans.
Without knowing what buyers are willing to pay its tough to determine his market value so we are left to speculate. Also I don't think all Jets fans value him the same way, Nic is a bit polarizing.

ps241 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 11:22 AM
  #67
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
 
veganhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowLefty View Post
Didn't say they were -
I was referring more to your comment on the fact that because he belongs to the Jets and they may not have a "fit" for him, doesn't mean a thing to other teams - you give NHL team management zero credit when you make statements like that.

Petan's skill set may be a perfect fit for a team looking for a young center they can work with and develop. His size will obviously play a factor to some extent, depending on the team and their needs - but the fact that he was part of the Jets organization will not.

Please don't assume opinions that differ from yours are naļve - it could be viewed as condescending.
"Players are judged on ability and stigma's carry zero weight"

As for the rest of you post if you really believe a team is going to give up anything of value for a a small player deemed "not good enough" for the Jets we are never going to agree.


Last edited by veganhunter: 03-19-2017 at 11:42 AM.
veganhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 11:29 AM
  #68
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 5,871
vCash: 500
Would Petan have more value to another team than pending UFA Stafford?

Teams have their own Petans, which may be further along in their development.

I'm not sure Nic sticks next year, depending on offseason moves. He may be back with the Moose.

Bob E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 11:42 AM
  #69
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
 
veganhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimby View Post
Value is determined by the buyer - not the seller. Seems to me that if no other team sees Petan as a good prospect that would be proof he is being overvalued by Jets Fans.
Not really, small players are typically undervalued around the league pretty much regardless of talent level. That's why you see guys like Marrchesault and Byron, who can legitimately score in the league, bounce around and be given up for nothing often. The same reason a guy like Debrincat is available in the 2nd round despite him putting Tavares level goal totals in the OHL. The same reason Petan (the highest scorer in his draft year) is available at pick #43 and a guy like Freddy Gauthier (who has trouble skating and stick handling at the same time) is picked in the 1st round.


Last edited by veganhunter: 03-19-2017 at 02:30 PM.
veganhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 11:47 AM
  #70
redneckjabronie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 35
vCash: 500
Under Maurice, and how he been horribly mismanaged, he has no future with the Jets. If Maurice gets extended, Petan is gone in the offseason.

What purpose would send him to the Moose do at this stage? A highly skilled player going into his third pro season, makes zero sense. He's shown he can play in the NHL when given a proper shot.

Roslovic is not at the same skill level as Petan. He brings other things to the table but Petan would have been a top 5-10 pick had he had Roslovic's size. Connor is a different type of player and will be on the Jets shortly.

Trading a small skilled player can go either way. Petan could end up being a bust or bottom 6 player, so no damage done. The other extreme is the Martin St. Louis example, where unloading a small highly skilled guy for nothing without being given a proper assessment can haunt a team for a long time.

redneckjabronie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 02:13 PM
  #71
Jimby
Reformed Optimist
 
Jimby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 728
vCash: 168
Small players in the NHL are usually very fast. Petan does not have the speed advantage most other small players have. In the NHL that would make it extremely difficult for him to enjoy the success he had in junior. In Petan's case those who are undervaluing could just be looking at things through a more realistic lens. Especially when other options will soon be ready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Not really, small players are typically undervalued around the league pretty much regardless of talent level. That's why you see guys like Marrchesault and Byron, who can legitimately score in the league, bounce around and be given up for nothing often. The same reason a guy like Debrincat is available in the end round despite him putting Tavares level goal totals in the OHL. The same reason Petan (the highest scorer in his draft year) is available at pick #43 and a guy like Freddy Gauthier (who has trouble skating and stick handling at the same time) is picked in the 1st round.

Jimby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 02:13 PM
  #72
truck
Registered User
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,650
vCash: 500
I would not rush to trade Petan. Really, it's up to him or Roslovic to replace Little down the road. That said, I don't see a fix coming to the back end without a trade.

Would need to be a really good offer.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 02:39 PM
  #73
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
 
veganhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimby View Post
Small players in the NHL are usually very fast. Petan does not have the speed advantage most other small players have. In the NHL that would make it extremely difficult for him to enjoy the success he had in junior. In Petan's case those who are undervaluing could just be looking at things through a more realistic lens. Especially when other options will soon be ready.
It's myth that you need to be a burner to be small in the NHL.

Go through the list some fast guys, some above average, some average.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...layerBirthDate

I would also argue Petan was way more quick than fast a couple of years but now he is average to a little above average in the straight line speed skating category.

veganhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2017, 02:55 PM
  #74
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Wow, just wow, Petan hasn't shown a lot of skill and finesse playing with the likes of Throburn, Tanev and Copp 5 minutes a game on the fourth line!

But Petan does look good playing with better players like Schief, Wheeler, Ehlers and Laine, who would have thought!

Hope Petan gets moved to a good NHL team with good coaching to show how wrong guys in here are!~
I've pointed out that the results are far more split than the typical "better with better."

It's not just that Petan plays better with better...
1) Petan's results are far better than what I'd suspect when away from Thorburn.
2) Petan's results are worse than what I'd suspect when with Thorburn.
3) Those guys Petan plays with away from Thorburn actually get a boost in performance and improve with Petan.
4) Thorburn (and Stafford coincidently or not) actually play worse with Petan.

I mean it shouldn't surprise us that a 5'9 amazing playmaker does fairly terrible with dump and chase players but surprises us when he has someone to pass to like Dano, Wheeler, Armia, Perreault, Ehlers, Connor, et al.

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:57 AM
  #75
gnp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 180
vCash: 500
Petan is Perplexing ???

I have to admit that Petan looks "intimidated" out on the ice right now. I think he's adjusting to the size and speed of the players. He seems sort of "lost" right now. I think with maturity this will change. His had some great scoring chances, and missed most of them, which shows me he's nervous and playing with no confidence.
On the Upside, he's very talented with the puck, and can somewhat control a game and buy time for the wingers to get into position. He's numbers in junior were "excellent" and he could score bigtime, and had tons of assists. These skills don't just go away-"he needs time."
I'd give Nic Petan a little time, and play him with some talented snipers like Kyle Conor, and try and build his confidence. If we let him go now-we'll get next to nothing, and he may turn out to be a real start in the NHL. This is a tough call, but keeping Nic won't hurt, as he's not breaking the bank. I'd keep him for awhile.

gnp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.