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Does Nic Petan Still Have A Future With The Jets?

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Old
03-20-2017, 05:56 PM
  #76
veganhunter
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Originally Posted by gnp View Post
I have to admit that Petan looks "intimidated" out on the ice right now. I think he's adjusting to the size and speed of the players. He seems sort of "lost" right now. I think with maturity this will change. His had some great scoring chances, and missed most of them, which shows me he's nervous and playing with no confidence.
On the Upside, he's very talented with the puck, and can somewhat control a game and buy time for the wingers to get into position. He's numbers in junior were "excellent" and he could score bigtime, and had tons of assists. These skills don't just go away-"he needs time."
I'd give Nic Petan a little time, and play him with some talented snipers like Kyle Conor, and try and build his confidence. If we let him go now-we'll get next to nothing, and he may turn out to be a real start in the NHL. This is a tough call, but keeping Nic won't hurt, as he's not breaking the bank. I'd keep him for awhile.
For a guy with the level of puck skills we've seen prior, he's had some rough games in that respect. I don't know if it's an equipment change, confidence issue, scared to make a mistake, or simply mind moving faster than his body but he had a couple of atrocious mishandles last night. That isn't an isolated game either, a guy with his talent and hands should not be having those kinds of issues.

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03-21-2017, 10:22 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Interesting. I have liked the idea of a trade for Theodore but have to admit I was alarmed when we played the Ducks early this season and he was getting trashed by their fan base for making brain dead plays in the D zone "as usual". I don't know if it was just a bad stretch of games or growing pains but he had a collective Board stink on him. I wonder how his advanced stats are?

As a few have said I think he would cost us either Connor or Roslovic +. The Ducks are in a weird spot Getz and Perry turn 32 this off season and Kesler turns 33 and that is their top 3 point producers? Their window has to be closing. Their future will require them to swap D for O since their prospect cupboard is overflowing with D and pretty shaky up front.

We are going to have to coach Petan up before he has any trade value IMO.
Was not aware of the bolded.
All I know about the Anaheim fanbase is that it is absolutely hopeless trying to talk to them about trading for any of their D. I don't bother to engage with them at all anymore but having tried a few times has probably pushed up my threshold for what is required. All I know is that they couldn't gush enough about Theo when he was on the NHL roster last year. AFAIK he is still a very highly regarded prospect.

If he has slid a little it might be Roslo straight up or Connor with the + coming our way. Whatever the exact details I think we are talking 3 prospects in similar territory.

If we switch to some other highly regarded D prospects we are still looking at giving up Roslo or Connor. You have to give to get. And 4 'C' prospects does not get 1'A'.

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03-21-2017, 10:30 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
It's not the points I'm worried about with him, it's the rest of his game. He's finished 7th among d on his team in CF% last year and thats where he is this year (less than 50% and a negative rel CF% each year). His XGF% this year is a real poor 45.63 and ranks 7th among dmen on his team. So while his hot stretch as a rookie where he got some points was nice he hasn't shown near the all around game that Josh has shown at this point. He's definitely still young and has potential but sometimes you need to look a bit closer than points at player like Theodore.
Fair enough. What's his defensive play in the AHL like? Honestly, I'm more concerned with that at this stage of development. If it is good and his small(ish) sample in the NHL is not, it is likely due to needing to adjust. OTOH if he is not standing out in a positive way in the A then I might want to look elsewhere.

If he is not the one we need then I would still rather pay that premium price but for some other player who will meet the need, rather than paying less for a lesser player.

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03-21-2017, 10:39 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Was not aware of the bolded.
All I know about the Anaheim fanbase is that it is absolutely hopeless trying to talk to them about trading for any of their D. I don't bother to engage with them at all anymore but having tried a few times has probably pushed up my threshold for what is required. All I know is that they couldn't gush enough about Theo when he was on the NHL roster last year. AFAIK he is still a very highly regarded prospect.

If he has slid a little it might be Roslo straight up or Connor with the + coming our way. Whatever the exact details I think we are talking 3 prospects in similar territory.

If we switch to some other highly regarded D prospects we are still looking at giving up Roslo or Connor. You have to give to get. And 4 'C' prospects does not get 1'A'.
I've found that fan bases aren't really the best way of judging trade value for players.

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03-21-2017, 10:56 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by gnp View Post
I have to admit that Petan looks "intimidated" out on the ice right now. I think he's adjusting to the size and speed of the players. He seems sort of "lost" right now. I think with maturity this will change. His had some great scoring chances, and missed most of them, which shows me he's nervous and playing with no confidence.
On the Upside, he's very talented with the puck, and can somewhat control a game and buy time for the wingers to get into position. He's numbers in junior were "excellent" and he could score bigtime, and had tons of assists. These skills don't just go away-"he needs time."
I'd give Nic Petan a little time, and play him with some talented snipers like Kyle Conor, and try and build his confidence. If we let him go now-we'll get next to nothing, and he may turn out to be a real start in the NHL. This is a tough call, but keeping Nic won't hurt, as he's not breaking the bank. I'd keep him for awhile.
I think the important thing there is that he is getting the chances. This in spite of the handicaps he is playing under.

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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
For a guy with the level of puck skills we've seen prior, he's had some rough games in that respect. I don't know if it's an equipment change, confidence issue, scared to make a mistake, or simply mind moving faster than his body but he had a couple of atrocious mishandles last night. That isn't an isolated game either, a guy with his talent and hands should not be having those kinds of issues.
Agree - but - he has certainly been snake bitten. Finally gets a goal and it is off-side. I'm sure he is feeling some pressure as well as plain frustration. I think the saying is 'squeezing the stick a little tight'.

The way he is being used he doesn't get a large number of chances so each one must look big to him right now. Better usage and he would be bound to get a goal eventually and start to relax.

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I've found that fan bases aren't really the best way of judging trade value for players.
No kidding.

This thread is proof of that.

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03-21-2017, 11:07 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
For a guy with the level of puck skills we've seen prior, he's had some rough games in that respect. I don't know if it's an equipment change, confidence issue, scared to make a mistake, or simply mind moving faster than his body but he had a couple of atrocious mishandles last night. That isn't an isolated game either, a guy with his talent and hands should not be having those kinds of issues.
Petan looks like a guy who needs to be playing more and he should be either on the Jets, Moose or somewhere else.

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03-21-2017, 11:07 AM
  #82
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Takes smaller guys a while to find their way in the NHL, I'm not sure Petan is being put in the best position at this time tho to find his way. I mean, I guess, I look at a guy like Johnson in Tampa or Gallagher in Montreal or even a guy like Martin St Louis, they were all pretty good players, main difference between them and Petan besides gaining experience, Well, they were put in positions to actually use their attributes to their advantage, Putting a skilled smaller play on the 4th line with Thorburn tho? I mean, that's just wanting the guy to fail. Because he is smaller also, i think he needs some time to really find his game at the NHL level, he hasn't done that yet but he also hasn't exactly had much of a chance with skilled players either, Something that Johnson Gallagher and St Louis did on a regular basis and what made them good players.

This is one of my many complaints about Maurice, his roster decisions are just mind boggling, i don't get why he needs to put Skill players with Plugs, he did it to ehlers last year also.. It just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't see what guys gain playing with scrubs like Thorburn.

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03-21-2017, 02:33 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ffh View Post
can a player that is exempt from the xd still be exposed. this would solve a lot of problems if we can get vegas to bite on him even if we have to give them an extra pick. would rather keep copp dano or armia. perreault is not going to be exposed . he can actually play hockey.

Can he be exposed? No, but we could trade them Petan for a 6th and a promise to take some nobody if that's a route we wanted to go.

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03-25-2017, 11:24 AM
  #84
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Sooooo..... Petan is the next Moose bobblehead. A clue?

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03-25-2017, 02:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
For a guy with the level of puck skills we've seen prior, he's had some rough games in that respect. I don't know if it's an equipment change, confidence issue, scared to make a mistake, or simply mind moving faster than his body but he had a couple of atrocious mishandles last night. That isn't an isolated game either, a guy with his talent and hands should not be having those kinds of issues.
Nic demonstrated reasonable skills in junior but at the pro level, I've never seen it translate. The game is too fast and physical for him and although I hope he keeps developing, I don't see it. He is a decent AHL level player.

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03-25-2017, 02:21 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by tgo0 View Post
Can he be exposed? No, but we could trade them Petan for a 6th and a promise to take some nobody if that's a route we wanted to go.
Why would someone giveaway a pick for him? There are literally dozens of small centers in the AHL for free.

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03-25-2017, 02:25 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
Takes smaller guys a while to find their way in the NHL, I'm not sure Petan is being put in the best position at this time tho to find his way. I mean, I guess, I look at a guy like Johnson in Tampa or Gallagher in Montreal or even a guy like Martin St Louis, they were all pretty good players, main difference between them and Petan besides gaining experience, Well, they were put in positions to actually use their attributes to their advantage, Putting a skilled smaller play on the 4th line with Thorburn tho? I mean, that's just wanting the guy to fail. Because he is smaller also, i think he needs some time to really find his game at the NHL level, he hasn't done that yet but he also hasn't exactly had much of a chance with skilled players either, Something that Johnson Gallagher and St Louis did on a regular basis and what made them good players.

This is one of my many complaints about Maurice, his roster decisions are just mind boggling, i don't get why he needs to put Skill players with Plugs, he did it to ehlers last year also.. It just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't see what guys gain playing with scrubs like Thorburn.
It would be nice to see him develop in the AHL but I don't see the intangibles or the skills at the NHL level. Johnson and St Louis??? Um, that's a different level.

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03-25-2017, 02:31 PM
  #88
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In his final junior year I was very critical of Petan here and pointed out that he hadn't really progressed much the previous two years. I pointed that out as a warning that he may not have a lot of growth left until he hit his ceiling. He loved to slow down the game and was very effective doing so. But there aren't a lot of players like the Great One who can consistently do that and succeed. He's an incredibly smart player but his game doesn't obviously translate perfectly at the NHL level.

That said, I don't believe that he's been given a fair shot at success yet. Playing with Thorburn will make anyone look bad. Petan has shown some flashes, but like a lot of smal players it takes time to adapt to the NHL game.

Pretty soon he needs a chance to play with some real talent. To get rid of him before that would be foolish. We have enough talent to assemble 3 really good scoring lines if Maurice ever got out of the way.

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03-25-2017, 02:49 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Was not aware of the bolded.
All I know about the Anaheim fanbase is that it is absolutely hopeless trying to talk to them about trading for any of their D. I don't bother to engage with them at all anymore but having tried a few times has probably pushed up my threshold for what is required. All I know is that they couldn't gush enough about Theo when he was on the NHL roster last year. AFAIK he is still a very highly regarded prospect.

If he has slid a little it might be Roslo straight up or Connor with the + coming our way. Whatever the exact details I think we are talking 3 prospects in similar territory.

If we switch to some other highly regarded D prospects we are still looking at giving up Roslo or Connor. You have to give to get. And 4 'C' prospects does not get 1'A'.
Well they have a good D core, a top performing team, why do they want our AHL players? Haha. Maybe the Jets should look at them as an example of a team.

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03-25-2017, 02:51 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Mud Turtle View Post
In his final junior year I was very critical of Petan here and pointed out that he hadn't really progressed much the previous two years. I pointed that out as a warning that he may not have a lot of growth left until he hit his ceiling. He loved to slow down the game and was very effective doing so. But there aren't a lot of players like the Great One who can consistently do that and succeed. He's an incredibly smart player but his game doesn't obviously translate perfectly at the NHL level.

That said, I don't believe that he's been given a fair shot at success yet. Playing with Thorburn will make anyone look bad. Petan has shown some flashes, but like a lot of smal players it takes time to adapt to the NHL game.

Pretty soon he needs a chance to play with some real talent. To get rid of him before that would be foolish. We have enough talent to assemble 3 really good scoring lines if Maurice ever got out of the way.
Agreed, he's just not that good. Never was. Kyle Wellwood was twice the player at all levels, small as well but his skill level was higher than Nic's, especially before his botched hernia surgery, even then he was twice the player.

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03-25-2017, 02:53 PM
  #91
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03-25-2017, 02:56 PM
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Petan has done nothing to be put in the top 6. He should be on the Moose getting 20 minutes a game and leading the PP. Besides Thorbs, who would we sit for Petan? Also I see Connor making the team next year and maybe even Roslo. Where does he fit?

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03-25-2017, 02:56 PM
  #93
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Is that to show how useless corsi and fenwick stats are on their own or how bad Nic Petan is? Or all of the above? lol.

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03-25-2017, 02:59 PM
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Is that to show how useless corsi and fenwick stats are on their own or how bad Nic Petan is? Or all of the above? lol.
Dispute the numbers then. "lol" doesn't do much to support your position.

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03-25-2017, 02:59 PM
  #95
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Is that to show how useless corsi and fenwick stats are on their own or how bad Nic Petan is? Or all of the above? lol.
Hmmm... go by random poster named Crocket opinion on out shooting an opponent... or go based off of 10 years of research showing value of the number... Tough call.


Also, why are you ignore Petan's scoring rates?

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03-25-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 10Ducky10 View Post
Petan has done nothing to be put in the top 6. He should be on the Moose getting 20 minutes a game and leading the PP. Besides Thorbs, who would we sit for Petan? Also I see Connor making the team next year and maybe even Roslo. Where does he fit?
On the third line with two of Connor, Roslo, and Dano.

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03-25-2017, 03:01 PM
  #97
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Is that to show how useless corsi and fenwick stats are on their own or how bad Nic Petan is? Or all of the above? lol.
Perhaps you should tell us what they mean since you seem to be such an expert

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03-25-2017, 03:08 PM
  #98
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Hmmm... go by random poster named Crocket opinion on out shooting an opponent... or go based off of 10 years of research showing value of the number... Tough call.


Also, why are you ignore Petan's scoring rates?
You do realize data like that becomes more valuable with other data to support it. I'm not saying the data is wrong at all, it's just on its own it is very limited. If you don't understand that, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

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03-25-2017, 03:20 PM
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Perhaps you should tell us what they mean since you seem to be such an expert
Simply that those data sets are supplemental, on their own they are very limited. The above says, without staff and thorbs but with more time on ice, he is still not a high performing player in end result point production. He still gives the puck away, still can't skate and can't keep up physically at the NHL level.

If you want to believe that in a small data set with data that needs more support, you hold the key to evidence that he is in fact an excellent player, then that's great. Do you want him to play against guys like Kopitar and Kesler because his corsi is high under specific circumstances? Do you think he is a good hockey player at the NHL based on those limited stats?

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03-25-2017, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Crocket View Post
Simply that those data sets are supplemental, on their own they are very limited. The above says, without staff and thorbs but with more time on ice, he is still not a high performing player in end result point production. He still gives the puck away, still can't skate and can't keep up physically at the NHL level.

If you want to believe that in a small data set with data that needs more support, you hold the key to evidence that he is in fact an excellent player, then that's great. Do you want him to play against guys like Kopitar and Kesler because his corsi is high under specific circumstances? Do you think he is a good hockey player at the NHL based on those limited stats?
Did you just say not believing in a small data set but then quoted an event that happens less often and more prone to heuristic bias: giving the puck away.

I like the Kopitar and Kesler straw man.

All the above is saying is that Petan gets hurt by working with Thorburn more than the average player does. Honestly, does that not make sense? A small playmaker doesn't work well with one of the worst forwards in the NHL?

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