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Hawks OT goal - offside?

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:38 PM
  #51
The Kessel Run
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I just found it odd that the refs did indeed review it, but made their decision within 5-10 seconds. That led me to believe there was nothing to see. The actual slo-mo (which I would imagine they reviewed) seems to tell a different tale. Confusing to the say the least.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:38 PM
  #52
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leafs got hosed out of a chance at the extra point. no point dwelling on it, huge game vs the bruins coming up.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:38 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
Interesting.

So a player in theory could get into that position that Panarin was in, where he's in the zone controlling and possessing the puck while the puck is out of the zone. And then he can leave the puck, and freely cherry pick inside the zone while the puck is still outside, and when the puck comes into the zone he's not offside because he entered the zone ahead of the puck but he controlled it and had possession of it at the time.

That's a terribly written rule then. When the puck crosses the line should be the point in time that matters not when the player crosses the line.
if this really onside that means panarin could have made a pass to his own goaly and went straight in front of TO net. Doesn't make any sense.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:38 PM
  #54
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I think they should call all the boys back on the ice and have a shootout. This was a travesty.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:38 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
So under this interpretation, theoretically he could do what he did, but instead of passing it forward into the zone take a slap shot back to his end, have the puck ring all the way around the boards in he Hawks end, up the boards in the neutral zone, and then pick it up behind the net in the Leafs zone and he'd be onside becuase he controlled the puck when he crossed the line and he was the one who caused the puck to enter the zone.
Yes, I suppose you could, if nobody else managed to get possession of the puck in the meantime...

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:39 PM
  #56
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A lot of mature Leafs fans in this thread. Not even being sarcastic.

Sure someone will always ***** and complain about a controversial call. But seems like the majority of Leafs fans are keeping their cool about it (at least in this thread).

Good for you guys/gals, and hopefully this has zero impact on whether you make it into the playoffs or not.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:39 PM
  #57
hatterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
That's a good question - what happens if someone else on his team outside the zone touches the puck outside of the zone after he enters?

I do think the rule seems kind of strangely written
He can't pass it back to his teammate becuase then his teammate would be in control of the puck and thus the part about the player putting himself offside wouldn't apply.

It seems there's two interpretations:

- A player can't put himself offside, no matter if he stick handles the puck into the zone or passes it.
Or
- a player loses possession once the pucks off the stick and thus him having control when entering the zone is irrelevant if he passes it.

I'd like to see clarification from the league on it. The linesmen reviewed and confirmed the first option, but to me that seems to contradict the part of offside not even being a question until the puck crosses the line. From a rules nerd standpoint it's be interesting to get clarity.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:41 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
No - I think that he was clearly onside according to how the rule is written.


However, I do think the questions about the rule in general are good ones. It does seem to be a strangely written rule that could result in some weird scenarios.
I have no idea how you can think it's clearly onside when not a single person in this thread can agree on how the rule is meant to be interpreted

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
No - I think that he was clearly onside according to how the rule is written.


However, I do think the questions about the rule in general are good ones. It does seem to be a strangely written rule that could result in some weird scenarios.
Yeah, one way of interpreting the rule (which is likely how the officials see it) shows that Panarin was onside, but it's definitely worded awkwardly. There's too many exceptions that need to be outlined, because I'm rather positive they don't want or expect any players to drop it back and cherry pick in the zone lol.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:43 PM
  #60
Canada4Gold
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Did someone edit my title and add "offsides?" Because someone is totally going to come in here to tell me that 1 offside isn't plural. Literally happens everytime anyone here ever posts the word "offsides"

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:44 PM
  #61
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If the leafs miss the playoffs by one point; should these refs be fined?

Missed offside



Missed too many men in OT



Reffing has been absolutely ABYSMAL this season

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:44 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeLee View Post
It says Prior not "as", he had it prior.
This is it. He had possession when his skates crossed the line PRIOR to the puck... thus he is onside and free to pass.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:45 PM
  #63
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Yeah, that 2 inches really made all the difference on that goal.

Get rid of offside reviews!

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:45 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
Did someone edit my title and add "offsides?" Because someone is totally going to come in here to tell me that 1 offside isn't plural. Literally happens everytime anyone here ever posts the word "offsides"
I got your back. Not sure who did the first edit, but I made it properly singular for you

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:47 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaegerDice View Post
Yeah, that 2 inches really made all the difference on that goal.

Get rid of offside reviews!
If it was offside the shot wouldn't have counted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
Did someone edit my title and add "offsides?" Because someone is totally going to come in here to tell me that 1 offside isn't plural. Literally happens everytime anyone here ever posts the word "offsides"
Almost as bad as "in nets"

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:48 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseLand View Post
If the leafs miss the playoffs by one point; should these refs be fined?

Missed offside



Missed too many men in OT



Reffing has been absolutely ABYSMAL this season
The Leafs literally did the same thing on line changes in OT that the photo you are showing. Every team does in OT.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:50 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PromiseLand View Post
Missed too many men in OT



Reffing has been absolutely ABYSMAL this season
The too many men missed in OT is kinda funny too because this happened in the only other game against the Hawks this year



This was is less egrious obviously but it's the exact same play. Guy jumps on while the other guy is going off. In today's case the guy coming on tried to get back off but failed, in the game in October's case the guy coming on touched the puck before the other guy was off

Oh well, that's hockey for you, you get some you miss some but it's weird how we had 2 games with the Hawks this year and it happened in both of them

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:52 PM
  #68
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Old
03-18-2017, 09:52 PM
  #69
b in vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
No the question is whether he releases possession of the puck while it is outside of the zone and puts himself offside.

Need a better frame-by-frame tbh. Not enough frames

It's a super close call either way
As far as I know - again - that question doesn't matter.
He's onside with possession so the pass afterwards doesn't matter, nor when he gives up possession, because no one touches it. He doesn't have to have full possession of the puck after he's already onside.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:53 PM
  #70
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It's legal for a player skating backwards to enter the zone before the puck provided that player has control of the puck at the time he enters the zone.

Likewise, it's legal for Panarin to be dragging the puck behind him as he enters the zone and making a pass. He had control at the point when he entered the zone and entered before Hartman.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:53 PM
  #71
Canada4Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassac View Post
The Leafs literally did the same thing on line changes in OT that the photo you are showing. Every team does in OT.
Leafs didn't jump on while the guy they were coming on for still had the puck. Teams do jump a little early in OT I agree. The 2 on 1 the Hawks had Matthews and someone else jumped on and had way more than the rulebook 5 feet from the bench before the other guy was off.

The touching the puck while the guy coming on for you is on the ice is black and white though and almost always gets called.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:53 PM
  #72
Keithsteeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
I have no idea how you can think it's clearly onside when not a single person in this thread can agree on how the rule is meant to be interpreted
There's no interpretation:

However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.


Cleary onside according to that language. I do think the rule it written kind of strangely and brings up questions about OTHER scenarios, but for the play in question today it's very clear. There's nothing to interpret really.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:53 PM
  #73
zar
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He is offside... 100%.

Simple reading comprehension... you don't start reading a sentence half ways through in order to properly interpret that sentence's meaning, right? Well it work the same way when you read a paragraph. I would think a sentence starting with the word "However, ..." would be your first clue.

A player is on-side when either of his skates are in contact with, or
on his own side of the line, at the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line
regardless of the position of his stick.
However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.


Onside/offside is not determined until the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:55 PM
  #74
dubey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
There's no interpretation:

However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.


Cleary onside according to that language. I do think the rule it written kind of strangely and brings up questions about OTHER scenarios, but for the play in question today it's very clear. There's nothing to interpret really.
Okay..

You're assuming you know the definition of possession as it applies to offsides and all anyone has been able to provide is how it applies to interference calls

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:55 PM
  #75
Keithsteeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zar View Post
He is offside... 100%.

Simple reading comprehension... you don't start reading a sentence half ways through in order to properly interpret that sentence's meaning, right? Well it work the same way when you read a paragraph. I would think a sentence starting with the word "However, ..." would be your first clue.

A player is on-side when either of his skates are in contact with, or
on his own side of the line, at the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line
regardless of the position of his stick.
However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.
LOL - you probably shouldn't comment on reading comprehension after you ignored the part of the rule that actually applies.

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