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Hawks OT goal - offside?

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:56 PM
  #76
ModryJazyk
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puck possesion doesn't mean the puck must be glued to the stick.It's correct call and even Babcock admitted it after the game.Leafs gets the point in the game they were outplayed, outchanced and outshot 39-26.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:57 PM
  #77
Keithsteeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Okay..

You're assuming you know the definition of possession as it applies to offsides and all anyone has been able to provide is how it applies to interference calls

The puck was on his stick when his skates crossed the blue line. Is someone actually disputing that?

I mean, I'm pretty sure having the puck on your stick = possession.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:58 PM
  #78
Classicnamesup
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Offsides since he didn't have control when the puck crossed.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:58 PM
  #79
Former Referee 68
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He has control of the puck, even though he is ahead of the puck. he passes when both feet are over the line and the puck is in motion to be passed...But the key is that he is control of the puck still. even though the puck is passed that is considered in control. that rule was brought up before and I remember asking why. that was the answer I was given.... good goal!

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:59 PM
  #80
doubledown99
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Friedman and Kypreos just said the goal was good per the rules. Said nothing in the rules that says he can't pass there. The rule is the skater must be in control of the puck (which he is)

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:59 PM
  #81
Crede777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zar View Post
He is offside... 100%.

Simple reading comprehension... you don't start reading a sentence half ways through in order to properly interpret that sentence's meaning, right? Well it work the same way when you read a paragraph. I would think a sentence starting with the word "However, ..." would be your first clue.

A player is on-side when either of his skates are in contact with, or
on his own side of the line, at the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line
regardless of the position of his stick.
However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.


Onside/offside is not determined until the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line.
The part you bolded isn't the relevant part of the Rule. The relevant section is the exception to the rule which begins with "However..."

As in... However, a player is NOT OFFSIDE provided he had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the blue line.

Panarin had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the blue line.

Therefore, he fits into the exception.

Therefore, he is on sides.

Example: Rick Nash used to (not sure if he still does) enter the zone butt first all the time. He would skate through the neutral zone and then right before crossing the blue line he would turn around and skate backwards with the puck. His skates would cross the blue line before the puck. Yet he was always deemed on sides. Because he fit into the exception.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:59 PM
  #82
dubey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
The puck was on his stick when his skates crossed the blue line. Is someone actually disputing that?

I mean, I'm pretty sure having the puck on your stick = possession.
lol

The puck also leaves his stick before it completely crosses the edge blue line as well. That's why there's questions about the call.

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Old
03-18-2017, 09:59 PM
  #83
stampedingviking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Offsides since he didn't have control when the puck crossed.
Doesn't have to as long as he had possession when his skates crossed the line, which he did, therefore onside.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:00 PM
  #84
hockeyes
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I don't think it was offside based on the rules. He couldn't have timed it better though if he had 100 chances at repeating that play.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:01 PM
  #85
htpwn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
The puck was on his stick when his skates crossed the blue line. Is someone actually disputing that?

I mean, I'm pretty sure having the puck on your stick = possession.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:01 PM
  #86
RCS
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Maple Leafs fan here..that was not offside. No excuses, leafs got beat.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:01 PM
  #87
zar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithsteeth View Post
LOL - you probably shouldn't comment on reading comprehension after you ignored the part of the rule that actually applies.
Uh... I did quote the entire paragraph, to make it simple for YOU, I highlighted the part that matters the most... the part where onside/offside is not determined until the instant the puck completely crosses the leading edge of the blue line.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:02 PM
  #88
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I think an understanding boils down to it seems everyone leaguewide and nhl info guys are saying it's good because the process of a pass is not, losing or not having control of the puck. That's still possession of the puck.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:02 PM
  #89
stampedingviking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zar View Post
Uh... I did quote the entire paragraph, to make it simple for YOU, I highlighted the part that matters the most... the part where onside/offside is not determined until the instant the puck completely crosses the leading edge of the blue line.
Perhaps try reading the bolded bit slightly further down, that's the relevant part in this instance.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:03 PM
  #90
Crede777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
lol

The puck also leaves his stick before it completely crosses the edge blue line as well. That's why there's questions about the call.
The puck was on Panarin's stick before he crossed the blue line. Hence Panarin is on side.

The puck is over the blue line before Hartman crosses the blue line. Hence Hartman is on side.

Both players are on sides.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:03 PM
  #91
Fire AV
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He's allowed to enter the puck with the puck behind him as long as he's in control of it.
The puck is in the zone as soon as it's on the blue line, at which point he and other players can do whatever they want.
The only question is whether or not the puck leaves his stick before or after it enters the blue line. A still picture after it leaves his stick doesn't answer that, but seeing how the call went, I'm inclined to believe it was on the blue line by the time he passed.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:03 PM
  #92
ClydeLee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zar View Post
Uh... I did quote the entire paragraph, to make it simple for YOU, I highlighted the part that matters the most... the part where onside/offside is not determined until the instant the puck completely crosses the leading edge of the blue line.
That sentence is literally followed by the word However... which specifics no it's not in every single scenario and let us explain this caveat... this situation fell under that caveat.

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03-18-2017, 10:03 PM
  #93
Luc Labelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classicnamesup View Post
Offsides since he didn't have control when the puck crossed.
The rule states he has to be in control when he crosses the blue line ahead of the puck (normally an offside), not when the puck crosses.

The puck crossing the blue line completely is used to determine whether any attacking player other than the puck carrier crosses the blue line first. All Chicago players other than Panarin are outside the zone when the puck crosses the line, so it is clearly onside.


Last edited by Luc Labelle: 03-18-2017 at 10:10 PM.
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Old
03-18-2017, 10:04 PM
  #94
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That's crazy, don't think I've ever seen that before. Pretty unique situation.

I wish they'd scrap the offside review though, these plays have always happened previously without any big controversy's other than the Duchene goal.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:04 PM
  #95
Crede777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeLee View Post
Which is literally followed by the word However... which specifics no it's not in every single scenario and let us explain this caveat... this situation fell under that caveat.
This is right. The "However" creates an exception to the rule that offsides is determined the moment the puck crosses the blue line. If you fit into the exception (in this case Panarin did), then the rule gets ignored.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:05 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
lol

The puck also leaves his stick before it completely crosses the edge blue line as well. That's why there's questions about the call.
Why does that matter at all? The rule specifically says what matters is when his SKATES cross (not the puck)

However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:05 PM
  #97
Canada4Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire AV View Post
He's allowed to enter the puck with the puck behind him as long as he's in control of it.
The puck is in the zone as soon as it's on the blue line, at which point he and other players can do whatever they want.
The only question is whether or not the puck leaves his stick before or after it enters the blue line. A still picture after it leaves his stick doesn't answer that, but seeing how the call went, I'm inclined to believe it was on the blue line by the time he passed.
That's wrong btw, puck has to be 100% over the blue line before it's in the zone. Same when it exits. It has to be 100% out.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:06 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The puck was on Panarin's stick before he crossed the blue line. Hence Panarin is on side.

The puck is over the blue line before Hartman crosses the blue line. Hence Hartman is on side.

Both players are on sides.
Agreed

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:06 PM
  #99
zar
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OK, guess I will have to do it this way...

Entire rules is below. The bolded part is the paragraph required to assess the situation we are discussing. The underlined parts are the parts to focus on as the key factors.

Off-side - Players of the attacking team must not precede the puck
into the attacking zone.
The position of the player’s skates and not that of his stick shall be
the determining factor in all instances in deciding an off-side. A player
is off-side when both skates are completely over the leading edge of
the blue line involved in the play.
A player is on-side when either of his skates are in contact with, or
on his own side of the line, at the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line
regardless of the position of his stick.
However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.

It should be noted that while the position of the player’s skates is
what determines whether a player is “off-side,” nevertheless the
question of an “off-side” never arises until the puck has completely
crossed the leading edge of the blue line at which time the decision is
to be made.
If a player legally carries or passes the puck back into his own
defending zone while a player of the opposing team is in such
defending zone, the off-side shall be ignored and play permitted to
continue.


Offside.

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Old
03-18-2017, 10:07 PM
  #100
Fire AV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
That's wrong btw, puck has to be 100% over the blue line before it's in the zone. Same when it exits. It has to be 100% out.
Huh, just saw that now. Not sure then. Seems like no part of the rules specifically covers this scenario, and it's just a few parts pieced together.

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