HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Crosby Hat Trick and 2nd 40 goal or more season and still the best player in the NHL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2017, 01:30 PM
  #101
Syrinx
HBK
 
Syrinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 8,789
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
McDavid has a good case for it for sure, but I think Sid would edge him out based on his production vs him missing games and his team's man games lost.
On top of that, Canadian hockey writers are human. They would love to give their national hero another one to replace one that he likely lost due to injury. They know McDavid will have many chances in the future.

Syrinx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 01:36 PM
  #102
Se829ne
Expendable enforcer
 
Se829ne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathtouchtrample View Post
5v5 SCF/60

Crosby- 13.4
McDavid-12.26
that and 40G in 65GP > 25G in 71GP. Objectively by every measure.

When evaluating that MVP-aspect, nobody can actually ignore that kind level of disparity in comparison, not even then if using most home-coloured fan googles.

Hockey is about scoring goals, and there are average some 1.7 assists per scored goal, so that's about the worth of points.

Se829ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 01:47 PM
  #103
beukeboom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Se829ne View Post
that and 40G in 65GP > 25G in 71GP. Objectively by every measure.

When evaluating that MVP-aspect, nobody can actually ignore that kind level of disparity in comparison, not even then if using most home-coloured fan googles.

Hockey is about scoring goals, and there are average some 1.7 assists per scored goal, so that's about the worth of points.
Yes but for instance, those 24 Maroon goals didn't happen due to McDavid handing the puck over to Maroon in his own D zone and then just looking as Maroon deked his way through the opposition single handedly scoring at the other end..

Given your username I can see why goals matter however

beukeboom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 01:53 PM
  #104
Se829ne
Expendable enforcer
 
Se829ne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beukeboom View Post
Given your username I can see why goals matter however
If the point is to win a game of hockey goals indeed matter.

You can score a goal without assist(s), but you cannot score assist(s) without the goal.

Why people always twist that plain fact? No player plays there alone either, so when it comes to one player's assists, it comes also to other players' assists: they didn't score the goal that ultimately caused that they got an assist (instead of another more or less random situational pass).

Se829ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:00 PM
  #105
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 40,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
I agree frankly. I mean, the Pens are one of 4 teams tightly contesting for the President's Trophy and currently on pace for 114 points. I really don't see why being the best player in that group is less valuable than the guy who does it on a bubble team, or somewhere in between.

I have never agreed with penalizing players for the Hart simply because they play on good teams. It's nonsense.

I'm talking in terms of general thoughts here. Not specifically saying Crosby has to win. But, I'd say his case is as strong as anyone.
And look back at previous winners.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/hart.html

You would be hard pressed to find many, if any, who fit the description of being the most important player on a crappy or mediocre team. If that is the standard Colorado's best player should be a shoe in for the award this year.

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:03 PM
  #106
SAK11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
And look back at previous winners.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/hart.html

You would be hard pressed to find many, if any, who fit the description of being the most important player on a crappy or mediocre team. If that is the standard Colorado's best player should be a shoe in for the award this year.
That's just silly. Take Colorado's best player off their team, they're in the exact same spot [30th] as they are right now. Take McDavid off Edmonton, they go from being a playoff team, to more than likely not. That's the argument being made here. But yes there have been plenty of years where the voters choose to go with the best player, not the player most valuable to their team.

SAK11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:07 PM
  #107
Tunez33
Registered User
 
Tunez33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 722
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAK11 View Post
That's just silly. Take Colorado's best player off their team, they're in the exact same spot [30th] as they are right now. Take McDavid off Edmonton, they go from being a playoff team, to more than likely not. That's the argument being made here. But yes there have been plenty of years where the voters choose to go with the best player, not the player most valuable to their team.
its a dangerous argument either way, if you take crosby off the pens this year, they probably fall to a wild card seed. Letang has only played 41 games. 3 of the top 4 d to start the year are on ir, Malkin has missed time again as well, hagelin out, hornqvist missed games. They are one of the top teams in man games missed and it has been key contributors missing them, not 4th liners. And they keep chugging along.

Tunez33 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:11 PM
  #108
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 40,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAK11 View Post
That's just silly. Take Colorado's best player off their team, they're in the exact same spot [30th] as they are right now. Take McDavid off Edmonton, they go from being a playoff team, to more than likely not. That's the argument being made here. But yes there have been plenty of years where the voters choose to go with the best player, not the player most valuable to their team.
No more silly than the 'most valuable to their team' argument made here, when if you look at the list that has almost never been the standard. Almost every instance the player is on an extremely good to great team, mostly great. It has always been a league MVP award no matter what the description has said. In fact if it ever becomes what some here seem to want to make it you may as well downgrade the award's significance because that is a rather silly award.

Look at those names again who have won, and you can argue whether one or another deserves it, but they almost to a man deserve consideration as the best in the league their year. Not team MVP, but league MVP. And McDavid deserves consideration under that standard, not the stupid 'Team MVP' standard.

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:12 PM
  #109
SAK11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunez33 View Post
its a dangerous argument either way, if you take crosby off the pens this year, they probably fall to a wild card seed. Letang has only played 41 games. 3 of the top 4 d to start the year are on ir, Malkin has missed time again as well, hagelin out, hornqvist missed games. They are one of the top teams in man games missed and it has been key contributors missing them, not 4th liners. And they keep chugging along.
I think everyone would agree that Pittsburgh is a more talented team that Edmonton. And the other factor is how Edmonton went from being the worst team in the West to a playoff team. Obviously it's more than just McDavid but it's clear that he's their best player leading the way.

But as has been mentioned, MVP is most usually look at as the league's best player, which I'm fine with. If Crosby wins the Ross and Richard, he should get the Hart, too.

SAK11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:16 PM
  #110
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 94,803
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
I'm curious to how you came to that conclusion, seeing how Crosby has as many points and nearly double as many goals in less games as compared to McDavid.
*Fewer


Shrimper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:27 PM
  #111
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,872
vCash: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
That's nuts, had no idea he was that high on the list.
Yup. It's pretty impressive. To give a little more detail, here is how league-wide scoring played out over the span of each of the top 5's careers:
  1. Wayne Gretzky (1978-99): 3.47 goals/game
  2. Mario Lemieux (1984-06): 3.14 goals/game
  3. Mike Bossy (1977-87): 3.76 goals/game
  4. Bobby Orr (1966-79): 3.22 goals/game
  5. Sidney Crosby (2005-): 2.81 goals/game

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:31 PM
  #112
Syrinx
HBK
 
Syrinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 8,789
vCash: 50
Crosby is on pace for 46.769 goals and 46.769 assists. If he really heats up, he could approach 50 and 100. (Not saying it will happen but if you've never been surprised by Crosby doing something crazy you haven't been paying attention.)

Syrinx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:40 PM
  #113
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
 
Jaded-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 40,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
Yup. It's pretty impressive. To give a little more detail, here is how league-wide scoring played out over the span of each of the top 5's careers:
  1. Wayne Gretzky (1978-99): 3.47 goals/game
  2. Mario Lemieux (1984-06): 3.14 goals/game
  3. Mike Bossy (1977-87): 3.76 goals/game
  4. Bobby Orr (1966-79): 3.22 goals/game
  5. Sidney Crosby (2005-): 2.81 goals/game
NM misread your post.

Jaded-Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:42 PM
  #114
Conormcjesus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 210
vCash: 500
crosby is truly one of the greatest to ever play and is still the best player right now in the world. he can do it all

Conormcjesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:51 PM
  #115
RattsSSV
Loyal to the Oil
 
RattsSSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,732
vCash: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by radapex View Post
Yup. It's pretty impressive. To give a little more detail, here is how league-wide scoring played out over the span of each of the top 5's careers:
  1. Wayne Gretzky (1978-99): 3.47 goals/game
  2. Mario Lemieux (1984-06): 3.14 goals/game
  3. Mike Bossy (1977-87): 3.76 goals/game
  4. Bobby Orr (1966-79): 3.22 goals/game
  5. Sidney Crosby (2005-): 2.81 goals/game
Would you mind providing a source, your numbers are out of whack.

As for Sid, he's still the best player in the league.

RattsSSV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:57 PM
  #116
McVespa99
Registered User
 
McVespa99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,162
vCash: 500
Obviously a huge MacJ fan but the old saying is true. If you want to be the champ you pretty much have to knock out the old champ. Connor has been great but he has not done that. Crosby is still #1 untill he gets knocked out.

McVespa99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:58 PM
  #117
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
 
Sens of Anarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,358
vCash: 500
I hope Crosby wins the scoring title followed by Marchand and Kane

Sens of Anarchy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 02:59 PM
  #118
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 18,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RattsSSV View Post
Would you mind providing a source, your numbers are out of whack.

As for Sid, he's still the best player in the league.
Not really, those are per team. Goals per game is 2 times that.

Empoleon8771 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:23 PM
  #119
RattsSSV
Loyal to the Oil
 
RattsSSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,732
vCash: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
Not really, those are per team. Goals per game is 2 times that.
In the regular season Gretz played in 1487 games, scoring 894 goals for a career reg season gpg of 0.601.

What am I missing?

RattsSSV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:25 PM
  #120
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 18,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RattsSSV View Post
In the regular season Gretz played in 1487 games, scoring 894 goals for a career reg season gpg of 0.601.

What am I missing?
No, they're talking about league-wide scoring. On average, there are 2.81 goals/game total per team in the years Crosby has been in the league.

Empoleon8771 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:30 PM
  #121
RattsSSV
Loyal to the Oil
 
RattsSSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,732
vCash: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
No, they're talking about league-wide scoring. On average, there are 2.81 goals/game total per team in the years Crosby has been in the league.
Thanks for clarifying for me.

RattsSSV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:40 PM
  #122
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,872
vCash: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by RattsSSV View Post
Would you mind providing a source, your numbers are out of whack.

As for Sid, he's still the best player in the league.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html and http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/WHA_1979.html

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:41 PM
  #123
RattsSSV
Loyal to the Oil
 
RattsSSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,732
vCash: 99
Thanks a lot.

RattsSSV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:42 PM
  #124
radapex
Registered User
 
radapex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Canada, Eh
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,872
vCash: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
No, they're talking about league-wide scoring. On average, there are 2.81 goals/game total per team in the years Crosby has been in the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RattsSSV View Post
Thanks for clarifying for me.
Ahh, yeah. Just saw the other posts

That was about comparing scoring eras. The numbers in the post are a league-wide goals per game. Basically just illustrating how low scoring this era is compared to other guys at the top of the career points-per-game rankings.

radapex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2017, 03:47 PM
  #125
HandshakeLine
Completely bias
 
HandshakeLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Praha, CZ
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 22,931
vCash: 500
God those Bossy numbers are filthy.

HandshakeLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.