HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sir Sheamus Weber (Man Mountain PhD edition)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2017, 10:12 AM
  #1
TT1
Registered User
 
TT1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,473
vCash: 934
Sir Sheamus Weber (Man Mountain PhD edition)

Last player discussion thread wasn't remade.




TT1 is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 10:19 AM
  #2
ginomini
Registered User
 
ginomini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
How those that graph works ?

ginomini is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 10:25 AM
  #3
TT1
Registered User
 
TT1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,473
vCash: 934
https://puckstuff.net/2017/01/18/exp...ate-statistic/

TT1 is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 10:49 AM
  #4
Toene
"Che" Weber
 
Toene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 500
He's playing well but Id like him to be a little more aggressive. Both on the puck and the opponents.

Toene is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 10:56 AM
  #5
Tank Toad
Registered User
 
Tank Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toene View Post
He's playing well but Id like him to be a little more aggressive. Both on the puck and the opponents.
I agree, harder on the players.

Tank Toad is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 10:58 AM
  #6
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 29,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank Toad View Post
I agree, harder on the players.
Having said that, he has injured many times more opponents with his shot alone than even a guy who hits as often as Emelin has with hits.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 11:01 AM
  #7
Captain97
Registered User
 
Captain97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Barrie Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Having said that, he has injured many times more opponents with his shot alone than even a guy who hits as often as Emelin has with hits.
Here is the list

https://www.reddit.com/r/Predators/c...ctims_updated/

Captain97 is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 11:19 AM
  #8
TheAntiPrice
Registered User
 
TheAntiPrice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 1,453
vCash: 1380
Surprised Subban isn't on that chart, wasn't a big point of contention after the trade was made that Subban was a lot higher on that chart than Weber?

TheAntiPrice is online now  
Old
03-20-2017, 11:22 AM
  #9
Victorius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,966
vCash: 500
hitting opponents and skating with the puck demand lots of energy. If you want to play big minutes every game for 82 games + Playoffs, you need to play smart. Weber is one example.

Victorius is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 11:28 AM
  #10
JGRB
#EllerThugLife
 
JGRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAntiPrice View Post
Surprised Subban isn't on that chart, wasn't a big point of contention after the trade was made that Subban was a lot higher on that chart than Weber?
I'm also surprised by this, Subban has definitely looked better on HERO charts in the past ( Don't know about this year, I haven't compared).

Weber has come as advertised, although he doesn't punish his opponents as much I was expecting.

Overall I'm happy with his play, and I'm not going to start any debates regarding the trade.

JGRB is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 12:19 PM
  #11
loudi94
Master of my Domain
 
loudi94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
I'm also surprised by this, Subban has definitely looked better on HERO charts in the past ( Don't know about this year, I haven't compared).

Weber has come as advertised, although he doesn't punish his opponents as much I was expecting.

Overall I'm happy with his play, and I'm not going to start any debates regarding the trade.
I noticed that as well. However, the playoffs will be a different scenario, I hope.

loudi94 is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:01 PM
  #12
shutehinside
Registered User
 
shutehinside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,003
vCash: 500
I thought Weber was an overrated, washed up D who wasn't a top pairing guy anymore and was worse than guys like Gostisbehere?? My world has been rocked!

We need a complete list of all the D posters here have said are better than Weber to keep track of them all. There's so many out there apparently...

shutehinside is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:01 PM
  #13
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 300
No need to discuss the trade.

He had a brutal ~35 games after his super hot ~25 games. 6 points and -10 during January. when we were collapsing he didn't step up, he hid like a mouse.

Now it's the Julien era so I'm gonna give him a pass. He's not proven himself a leader or a #1 yet. Not proven himself a playoff performer either. Now is his best chance, it doesn't get easier than playing ahead of Price and having the undying and unchanging supporting of the desperate GM.

And hit somebody for god's sake. He's a giant mouse, not a man mountain.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:05 PM
  #14
MXD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 33,888
vCash: 500
...Shea Weber didn't prove himself to be a #1 D-Men?

That's probably the absolute dumbest thing ever written here, and the kind of stuff that brings the overall level of these boards down, because the only possibly reply to nonsense is nonsense.

In fact, the post is so dumb that it's probably evidence, in and of itself, that Shea Weber established himself as a #1, because whenever someone writes something that is that off-the-mark, the only conclusion to be made is that the facts must be the total opposite of the opinion expressed in the post.

MXD is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:09 PM
  #15
FazChenyuk
Registered User
 
FazChenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
No need to discuss the trade.

He had a brutal ~35 games after his super hot ~25 games. 6 points and -10 during January. when we were collapsing he didn't step up, he hid like a mouse.

Now it's the Julien era so I'm gonna give him a pass. He's not proven himself a leader or a #1 yet. Not proven himself a playoff performer either. Now is his best chance, it doesn't get easier than playing ahead of Price and having the undying and unchanging supporting of the desperate GM.

And hit somebody for god's sake. He's a giant mouse, not a man mountain.
thats ridiculous. He still has 16 goals, which is close to the 20 goals he pots a year. Everyone is struggling on the team maybe besides Pac with his goals amount but even him he has went on a cold streak.

Subban was part of one of this team's worst losing streak/collapse.

No excuses.

FazChenyuk is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:11 PM
  #16
Lebowski
El Duderino
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
...Shea Weber didn't prove himself to be a #1 D-Men?

That's probably the absolute dumbest thing ever written here, and the kind of stuff that brings the overall level of these boards down, because the only possibly reply to nonsense is nonsense.
I mean, like it or not, Weber is certainly far more limited than the prototypical #1D in today's NHL.

You look at the last few cup winners, and all their #1Ds were all-around forces. The current NHL trend is clearly more towards puck-moving #1Ds than guys like Weber who play a very passive game and has nothing to offer offensively aside from an heavy shot.

To me, Weber needs someone to complement him. The usual #1 defenseman doesn't need that, as he can drive the play and make things happen no matter who's on his pairing. But Weber can't really skate the puck, and he can't really make break-out passes either. To me, having those kinds of limitations in today's game is more indicative of a #2 than it is of a #1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
thats ridiculous. He still has 16 goals, which is close to the 20 goals he pots a year. Everyone is struggling on the team maybe besides Pac with his goals amount but even him he has went on a cold streak.

Subban was part of one of this team's worst losing streak/collapse.

No excuses.
... And was leading the team in scoring at the time he got injured while being one of the rare player on the team that still had a positive goal differential...

Ironic you should mention the no excuse motto when Subban was clearly used as a scapegoat by the management in order to maintain Therrien's position with this team. And looked what happened again this season, this time even with an healthy Price backstopping the team and Man Mountain leading the way... Maybe Subban wasn't the issue after all.

Lebowski is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:14 PM
  #17
MXD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 33,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I mean, like it or not, Weber is certainly far more limited than the prototypical #1D in today's NHL.

You look at the last few cup winners, and all their #1Ds were all-around forces. The current NHL trend is clearly more towards puck-moving #1Ds than guys like Weber who play a very passive game and has nothing to offer offensively aside from an heavy shot.

To me, Weber needs someone to complement him. The usual #1 defenseman doesn't need that, as he can drvie the play and make things happen no matter who's on his pairing. But Weber can't really skate the puck, and he can't really make break-out passes either. To me, having those kinds of limitations in today's game is more indicative of a #2 than it is of a #1.
Zdeno Chara ?
Yeah, sure, every D-Men usually has a Partner who meshes well with him. Weber is no different than any other in that regards.
Cup winners also had HHOF-bound Centers. Sometimes two of them.

MXD is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:15 PM
  #18
Lebowski
El Duderino
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Zdeno Chara ?
Yeah, sure, every D-Men usually has a Partner who meshes well with him. Weber is no different than any other in that regards.
Peak Chara had no issue doing any of what I mentioned.

Current Chara isn't a #1D.

And Chara, as far as big bruising defensemen go, was never, ever, as passive as Weber. He was an intimidating presence out there.

Lebowski is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:17 PM
  #19
MXD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 33,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Peak Chara had no issue doing any of what I mentioned.

Current Chara isn't a #1D.

And Chara, as far as big bruising defensemen go, was never, ever, as passive as Weber. He was an intimidating presence out there.
Confirmation bias at its best.

MXD is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:19 PM
  #20
MXD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 33,888
vCash: 500
Shea Weber is getting in the HHOF, whether you agree or not. If you disagree, you prove the point that he should be getting in. That will be my last answer.

...BUt I'd indeed like him to be a little more active from the blueline.

MXD is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:21 PM
  #21
FazChenyuk
Registered User
 
FazChenyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
... And was leading the team in scoring at the time he got injured while being one of the rare player on the team that still had a positive goal differential...

Ironic you should mention the no excuse motto when Subban was clearly used as a scapegoat by the management in order to maintain Therrien's position with this team. And looked what happened again this season, this time even with an healthy Price backstopping the team and Man Mountain leading the way... Maybe Subban wasn't the issue after all.
Yes, but we are talking about how Weber isn't making the difference. Well guess what, neither was Subban. Just proves how much hockey is a team sport. We are critisizing Weber while 90% of the team had an horrible year. Weber's stats are 16 + 25= 41, +17 (team leading +/-) and that's more goals then Subban has scored in the past 2 years. I think we should give a bit of credit to the Mountain Man.

FazChenyuk is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:24 PM
  #22
Lebowski
El Duderino
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Confirmation bias at its best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Shea Weber is getting in the HHOF, whether you agree or not. If you disagree, you prove the point that he should be getting in. That will be my last answer.

...BUt I'd indeed like him to be a little more active from the blueline.
Confirmation bias how?

As for Weber getting in the HHOF, based on what accomplishment? Without a Norris or a Stanley Cup, he'll go down as one of the good players of his generation, but certainly not a shoe-in for the HHOF.

There's the international team awards, I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Yes, but we are talking about how Weber isn't making the difference. Well guess what, neither was Subban. Just proves how much hockey is a team sport. We are critisizing Weber while 90% of the team had an horrible year. Weber's stats are 16 + 25= 41, +17 (team leading +/-) and that's more goals then Subban has scored in the past 2 years.
And that's relevant how? Does Weber generate more offense than Subban?

As for hockey being a team sport, funny how you're the one that singled out Subban's contribution from last season... Ignoring the fact Subban was one of the few actually carrying his own weight on the ice, it's pretty ironic to pull the team game card after your initial argument.

Not to mention, Subban lead healthy Habs squads to the playoffs on numerous occasions. Was it not a team game then too?

Lebowski is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:27 PM
  #23
Lafleurs Guy
Global Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 43,019
vCash: 500
My opinion on him has not changed. Solid blueliner who's way too passive on the puck. Overrated.

__________________
- 40,000 & counting...
Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:33 PM
  #24
Maverik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 609
vCash: 500
For him not to be a #1 D, I would need someone to pull me a list of 29 defensemans they would take ahead of Weber...

#1D doesn't necessarily mean top 5 D in the league..

Maverik is offline  
Old
03-20-2017, 03:36 PM
  #25
WhiskeySeven
Enlarged member
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
...Shea Weber didn't prove himself to be a #1 D-Men?

That's probably the absolute dumbest thing ever written here, and the kind of stuff that brings the overall level of these boards down, because the only possibly reply to nonsense is nonsense.

In fact, the post is so dumb that it's probably evidence, in and of itself, that Shea Weber established himself as a #1, because whenever someone writes something that is that off-the-mark, the only conclusion to be made is that the facts must be the total opposite of the opinion expressed in the post.
Shea Weber a #1 D-man?

That's probably the absolute dumbest thing ever written here, and the kind of stuff... yada yada yada

Come back when you have some substance or want to over a counter-argument. Lebowski wrote exactly what I wanted to write - try to refute it without resorting to hot air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
thats ridiculous. He still has 16 goals, which is close to the 20 goals he pots a year. Everyone is struggling on the team maybe besides Pac with his goals amount but even him he has went on a cold streak.

Subban was part of one of this team's worst losing streak/collapse.

No excuses.
I'm not going to discuss the trade.

This year, with a healthy Price, a better forward corps, and a roster that knows better - the team yet again suffered a calamitous collapse. Shea Weber did nothing to prevent it and his performances did a lot to actually cost us: -10 and a mere 6 points in a month, from MAN MOUNTAIN HIMSELF. Oh my god.

I'm not going to discuss the trade or Subban because it will derail the thread. Let's keep the focus on this supposed #1 d-man, shall we? The #1 who can't pass, can't carry the puck, can't make plays, and needs to be coddled and carried by his partners to look acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Shea Weber is getting in the HHOF, whether you agree or not. If you disagree, you prove the point that he should be getting in. That will be my last answer.

...BUt I'd indeed like him to be a little more active from the blueline.
He's not getting anywhere close to the hall of fame. He's done nothing in his career to earn even a mention. Wade Redden has a better shot than Weber, he's at least made it past the second round of the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FazChenyuk View Post
Yes, but we are talking about how Weber isn't making the difference. Well guess what, neither was Subban. Just proves how much hockey is a team sport. We are critisizing Weber while 90% of the team had an horrible year. Weber's stats are 16 + 25= 41, +17 (team leading +/-) and that's more goals then Subban has scored in the past 2 years. I think we should give a bit of credit to the Mountain Man.
Marc-Andre Bergeron had 15 goals in a season once and Sheldon Souray, well he had 26 goals!

Goals, out of context, don't determine who is a #1 d-man and they don't determine how useful you are to your team on the ice. Markov had less goals than Souray, he was clearly the better player.

Shea Weber has a great shot and is very effective defensively. But hockey is a fluid game and just being "steady" in the back isn't enough for a #1. He doesn't carry the puck, he doesn't pass the puck well, and he relies on his partner far too much. Just like Alex Galchenyuk, on paper, has all the stats to be a #1 C but we all know he isn't there yet - Shea Weber, on paper, looks fine but on the ice doesn't bring enough to be a #1 D-man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik View Post
For him not to be a #1 D, I would need someone to pull me a list of 29 defensemans they would take ahead of Weber...

#1D doesn't necessarily mean top 5 D in the league..
There aren't 30 #1C's either. #1 means what it means. It means a d-man who can play huge minutes almost independently to his partner, who can make plays and support his team offensively, and who can change the tide of a game single-handedly. Chris Pronger was a #1 d-man. Erik Karlsson is a #1 d-man. Peak Zdeno Chara was a #1 d-man. Shea Weber is a far, far cry from all three.



I'd like for the conversation to remain open and focused on what Shea Weber actually does bring. Because it ain't hitting, it ain't toughness, and it ain't a #1 D-man. He is, without question, the most overrated player in the NHL today.

WhiskeySeven is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.