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Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXI -- Will we even care by July 1?

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Old
03-24-2017, 11:20 PM
  #76
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That was painful....eyes bleeding.
Finally you know how your posts make everyone feel

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Old
03-24-2017, 11:28 PM
  #77
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Finally you know how your posts make everyone feel
Logic and reason hard for you to digest?

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03-24-2017, 11:35 PM
  #78
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Logic and reason hard for you to digest?
I'm surprised you know what those words are

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Old
03-25-2017, 05:49 AM
  #79
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LOL.

Is it easier to get a Tom Wilson clone, or a Eller clone in the UFA market? I am no expert but Willy seems the more unique player. Potential punch throwing pseudo power forward or finished product grinding 3C.

Sure building strong down the middle is wise but Eller hasn't shown me quite enough scoring skills thus far, to warrant anointing him our scoring 3C of the future. Taking nothing away from his talents but he seems like a Beagle with a washboard but less faceoffs. And less points.

What is his next contract expected to look like if he exceeds in that role; and can we even afford that.

George will do cartwheels to land what he will tout as a power forward in Wilson, and Kane apparently.

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03-25-2017, 08:17 AM
  #80
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@Art - good post as usual lately. Willy has shown that he can hold his own (if even just defensively) in his limited bump ups to the top 6.

Barry needs to have a logical top 6 shakeup at the ready for desperation mode. Swapping Kuz and Nick is his go to, but think Willy is 2nd in line. He won't mess with 3 of course. There aren't many other options. Williams on 4 I am sure is frowned upon, but if 2 goes cold, Barry will do something, as we saw (finally) in game 5.


Offseason thoughts.... I am not convinced George takes Grubauer over Willy Eller or Schmidt. Is there any chance we are overvaluing Phillip, as we tend to do to our own? I don't ever hear of him discussed as THE best league wide backup. I just don't see George turning down an every day player for what is a largely untested backup. Wouldn't George be smarter to take a game day regular, and then just trade with us for him on the cheap later if the 2 he took somehow completely suck? He knows Phillip has no future here, unlike the backups on some of the other teams.

I still believe Willy is the one he wants to pluck from us. George likes toughness. Willy entertains more than others through his belligerent play. He is competing with Vegas the city.

Still holding out hope that we can at one point see a line of Burakovsky-Kuznetsov-Wilson. I have been waiting for this line for 2 seasons what harm is there in testing things right now.

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03-25-2017, 08:56 AM
  #81
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I don't think 1 more year of Eller is as clear cut of a decision as you're saying over a cost controlled Wilson. All Wilson has to do is have a decent playoff run and all bets are off.

I myself love the C depth, and if I'm GM I'm already trying to work out an extension with Eller and if he's asking for $5 or more per after next year it's probably goodbye anyway.
Yeah, I agree on the playoffs. I'm looking thru the lens of today, not the lens in June. Obv a lot could change. GMBM also just spent 2 2nds on Eller. Can't imagine it was for only one year.

Eller would probably be a top 2C for them, I'd wager. Can't see how they'd get 2 that were better unless FA signings or trades happened.

We will see.

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03-25-2017, 09:58 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
LOL.

Is it easier to get a Tom Wilson clone, or a Eller clone in the UFA market? I am no expert but Willy seems the more unique player. Potential punch throwing pseudo power forward or finished product grinding 3C.

Sure building strong down the middle is wise but Eller hasn't shown me quite enough scoring skills thus far, to warrant anointing him our scoring 3C of the future. Taking nothing away from his talents but he seems like a Beagle with a washboard but less faceoffs. And less points.

What is his next contract expected to look like if he exceeds in that role; and can we even afford that.

George will do cartwheels to land what he will tout as a power forward in Wilson, and Kane apparently.
I don't think he takes Wilson over Schmidt or Grubuaer. I'd rather he did, as D is harder to fill, IMO. I don't want to lose our C backbone either. I just see W's as easier to replace. It's not like Eller is old. He's only 27.

I honestly think we may see a Grubauer trade to Vegas for a modest return to have Vegas take Orpik. That would make a lot of sense. We could threaten to trade Grubauer somewhere else, and expose Copley. Or we may just do that anyway.

So many possibilities.

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03-25-2017, 11:43 AM
  #83
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I don't think he takes Wilson over Schmidt or Grubuaer.... .
You may well be right. But the two you see him taking, aren't even expected to play any time soon. If all goes well, not even play for the rest of the season.

I think that speaks volumes to the demand for those players.

If not Willy, who is George eyeballing to be his heavy... Sesito? You know he is going to want some toughness.

One hole in your theory, why would George trade for Phillip if he can be plucked for free?

I wonder if its wise to look back to previous expansions to see the types of dealings that went down. Maybe the rules have changed.

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03-25-2017, 02:31 PM
  #84
Ridley Simon
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You may well be right. But the two you see him taking, aren't even expected to play any time soon. If all goes well, not even play for the rest of the season.

I think that speaks volumes to the demand for those players.

If not Willy, who is George eyeballing to be his heavy... Sesito? You know he is going to want some toughness.

One hole in your theory, why would George trade for Phillip if he can be plucked for free?

I wonder if its wise to look back to previous expansions to see the types of dealings that went down. Maybe the rules have changed.
Brian may be telling GM's around the league that he's going to trade Grubauer.

I know there are a lot of G's that may be available, but not many that have his pedigree and age. He's not Corey Schneider, but he's also not retread crap like Fleury, Lehtonen, etc. Bishop is the main guy that I could see George wanting (short term), with Grubs the long term play. Or Dallas or Winnipeg or Toronto or NYIslanders or Carolina or... Well you get the drift. He's arguably better than many of those teams #1's.

So if George wants Grubs, he may have to play some ball. Orpik also isn't a bad player for them to have, assuming he's healthy. 2015 or 2017 Orpik helps Vegas, a lot.

So while it's not an expected development, it's an option. If the Caps could pull something like that off, it would give them at least 8m in unepected salary cap room w Orpik's slot and Salary Cap going up. 8m could mean the difference between losing Alzner and Williams versus not (with maybe some money left over?)

Resign Oshie to a long deal, driving down AAV, and the team looks remarkably similar to this years, minus Orpik, Shattenkirk, Grubauer, and Winnik. Vrana and Bowey/Siegenthaler are added (with a vet G back up), and the team is still really strong.

Maybe pie in the sky. Maybe not. But plausible.

Ovey - Backs - Oshie
MaJo - Kuz - Vrana
Bura - Eller - Williams
Connolly - Beagle - Wilson
Niskanen - Orlov
Carlson - Alzner
Schmidt - Bowey
Holtby
Copley

Can that fit in 76m? Maybe. Get Oshie for 5.75 long, Alzner for 4.5 long, Williams for 3m?


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 03-25-2017 at 02:36 PM.
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Old
03-26-2017, 01:52 PM
  #85
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Blues fan coming in peace--just wondering how Shatty is playing for you guys and whether you think you might try to sign him in the summer?

Blues' fans are really warming to Sanford...definitely a good player with soft hands...just needs to add some size over the summer. He shows a knack for being in the right place at the right time in the O-zone--definitely has good vision and hockey sense.

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03-26-2017, 02:04 PM
  #86
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Blues fan coming in peace--just wondering how Shatty is playing for you guys and whether you think you might try to sign him in the summer?

Blues' fans are really warming to Sanford...definitely a good player with soft hands...just needs to add some size over the summer. He shows a knack for being in the right place at the right time in the O-zone--definitely has good vision and hockey sense.
He's playing a sheltered role and has 8 assists in 11 games and is definitely our best PPQB. Need to see what he does in the playoffs to get a better assessment but he definitely hasn't been a dud, which is a pretty big deal given how much he was paid for and how long it supposedly takes players to get used to our system. He's putting another really good transitional D out of the lineup in Schmidt though since Orpik is guaranteed his spot give his veteranship, so the upgrade isn't through the roof like it would have been if he replaced a crappy #5/#6. Probably impossible to resign him all things considered unless he takes a discount for DC and they move Carlson instead... anyway the moves to resign him would be too complicated with too many pieces needed to fall in places.

All the Blues fans who were suicidal over the return made me laugh... we overpaid pretty heftily with Sanford and a 1st+ for a rental who while is a good offensive #3 wasn't a star player and who we basically have no chance of resigning. Sanford would have been an impact long term cost controlled bottom 6 player for us.

But it's now or never for the caps and the price paid won't kill the team like the Forsberg deal did.


Last edited by Revelation: 03-26-2017 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
03-26-2017, 03:50 PM
  #87
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They need Oshie. He's a top line wing they've need for so long .
We've been saying this for a while but next year burts gonna break out big.

65 19 77
8 92 13
90/trade 20 10
.... 83 43

74 2
22 9
88 Bowey

70
...
Lineup I want for next year


Last edited by TheDayMan: 03-26-2017 at 03:59 PM.
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Old
03-26-2017, 04:35 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TheDayMan View Post
They need Oshie. He's a top line wing they've need for so long .
We've been saying this for a while but next year burts gonna break out big.

65 19 77
8 92 13
90/trade 20 10
.... 83 43

74 2
22 9
88 Bowey

70
...
Lineup I want for next year
You want Carlson playing on his off side?

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Old
03-26-2017, 05:04 PM
  #89
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74 2
22 9
88 Bowey
How are your 4 penalty kill defenseman and who do your use for your primary defending situations?

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03-26-2017, 06:02 PM
  #90
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You want Carlson playing on his off side?
Quote:
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How are your 4 penalty kill defenseman and who do your use for your primary defending situations?
Honestly idk what d play what side. Namely I just want those 6 D regardless who plays with who or where.

And primary defending situations? Niskanen and whoever the d coach wants. Shattenkirk has openly stated he wants to evolve as a player and play all situations. Shutdown D are a dieing breed imo. I'd take 6 puck moving defenseman all day:

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03-26-2017, 06:33 PM
  #91
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9-2
88-74
???-22

Only way I see something like that and that's a weak left side defensively. They'd need ??? to be good year Alzner caliber player.

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03-26-2017, 06:34 PM
  #92
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All the Blues fans who were suicidal over the return made me laugh... we overpaid pretty heftily with Sanford and a 1st+ for a rental who while is a good offensive #3 wasn't a star player and who we basically have no chance of resigning. Sanford would have been an impact long term cost controlled bottom 6 player for us.
But it's now or never for the caps and the price paid won't kill the team like the Forsberg deal did.
Agree with our assessment of Shattenkirk but as far as Sanford goes, they have five "Sanfords" sitting in Hershey. The 1st rounder doesn't even matter in this garbage draft.

And there is ZERO chance the Caps re-sign Shattenkirk. Even if they wanted to they just don't have the cap space.

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03-26-2017, 06:37 PM
  #93
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How are your 4 penalty kill defenseman and who do your use for your primary defending situations?
All of them other than Bowey can probably PK or at least quickly get the hang of it. Carlson and Niskanen for sure, Orlov never looked out of place in the seconds he got there, Schmidt is weak but has good stick work.

PKing is harder on forwards than on defensemen who by nature just have to be pretty stationary and willing to block shots and lift check.

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03-26-2017, 06:42 PM
  #94
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They need to bring Oshie back. He's a fantastic fit on this team. He consistently impacts the game.

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03-26-2017, 06:46 PM
  #95
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All of them other than Bowey can probably PK or at least quickly get the hang of it..
ah....quickly get the hang of it. I guess experience and defensive skill is overrated by me. its a thing you quickly get the hang of.

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03-26-2017, 07:23 PM
  #96
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ah....quickly get the hang of it. I guess experience and defensive skill is overrated by me. its a thing you quickly get the hang of.
They already have plenty of defensive experience being top 4 NHL defensemen and playing in plenty of defensive situations.

The main reason Alzner and Orpik get so much PK time is because it allows them to eat up minutes without their offensive ineptitude screwing up the team. They're good at it but there's no reason to think Orlov, Niskanen, Schmidt and Shattenkirk can't be on roughly the same level.

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03-26-2017, 07:55 PM
  #97
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The main reason Alzner and Orpik get so much PK time is because it allows them to eat up minutes without their offensive ineptitude screwing up the team. They're good at it but there's no reason to think Orlov, Niskanen, Schmidt and Shattenkirk can't be on roughly the same level.
Is that so.

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03-26-2017, 07:59 PM
  #98
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Is that so.
What other reason is there? Everyone on D is willing to block shots, Carlson/Orlov don't have any problems outmuscling players and Niskanen is pretty cerebral. I'd need to see something explicit to convince me they can't PK reliably. There's god knows how many instance of Orpik messing up his assignment and plowing a guy into Holtby as the puck goes in the net and no one holds it against him.

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03-26-2017, 10:44 PM
  #99
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Lost battles matter on the PK. Softer defensemen like Shattenkirk and Schmidt will have their share of more extended defending due to lost battles. I don't even mean that in terms of defending the slot so much as board battles. Allowing retrievals to happen will lead to extended zone time and more successful setups.

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03-26-2017, 10:55 PM
  #100
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Our defense isn't going to be as good next year no matter what, a great PK turning into an average one is no reason to keep Orpik around and lose a much better player or overpay for Alzner. Niskanen and Carlson are good PKers and Schmidt/Orlov/Shattenkirk can step up.

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