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Flames/sharks Proposal

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:02 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perogieboy
Ditto for Phaneuf
Exactly the point that was being made.

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:13 AM
  #27
Evil Sather
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People who who laugh at the very notion that BOTH Marleau and McLaren might be worth Phaneuf are... just... mouth breathers.

This Phaneuf crap is getting to ridiculous levels.

He's one effing player, and there's 50 guys I'd take over him today, so please, stop it.

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:19 AM
  #28
Ronald Pagan
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He's one effing player, and there's 50 guys I'd take over him today, so please, stop it.
Name them.

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:38 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
People who who laugh at the very notion that BOTH Marleau and McLaren might be worth Phaneuf are... just... mouth breathers.

This Phaneuf crap is getting to ridiculous levels.

He's one effing player, and there's 50 guys I'd take over him today, so please, stop it.
With Phaneufs age and unreal potential there are NOT 50 players in the NHL with more trade value.

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:47 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan
Name them.
Ug. Well, whatever. I'll just go down the team list in the standings. I'll even throw out some numbers so your poor self doesn't have to count.

1) Jagr
Lundqvist
Forsberg
Gagne
Pitkanen
Gionta
Brodeur
Crosby
Alfredsson
10) Heatley
Spezza
Redden
Chara
Hasek
Miller
McCabe
Kaberle
Bergeron
Staal
20) Brind'Amour
Lecavalier
Richards
Boyle
Kovalchuk
Hossa
Lehtonen
Luongo
Jokinen
30) Ovechekin (This would be just the EC)
Shanahan
Datsyuk
Lidstrom
Legace
Kariya
Legwand
Vokun
Timmonen
Zherdev
Ruutu
40) IGINLA (not even the best player on his own team)
Naslund
Ohlund
Bertuzzi (even still)
Pronger
Sakic
Blake
Hejduk
Tanguay
Gaborik
Modano
50) Visnovsky
Niedermeyer
Thornton
Marleau
Nagy
56) Mara

That would be 56, off the top of my head without looking at a roster. Figure on another 5+ if I actually went in depth.

Can't wait for the inevitable OMG MODANO IZ OLD PHANEUF ROX HIS SOX. Intelligent criticism like that will be greatly appreciated.

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:48 AM
  #31
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Since Phaneuf is on Sutters untradeable/untouchable list that would take him out of any sort of rumor/proposal going forward.

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Old
02-09-2006, 11:57 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Ug. Well, whatever. I'll just go down the team list in the standings. I'll even throw out some numbers so your poor self doesn't have to count.


That would be 56, off the top of my head without looking at a roster. Figure on another 5+ if I actually went in depth.

Can't wait for the inevitable OMG MODANO IZ OLD PHANEUF ROX HIS SOX. Intelligent criticism like that will be greatly appreciated.
You would be the worst GM in sports history if you value all the guys on that list over Phaneuf. Some of them aren't even in the ballpark. Guys like Gionta, Bergeron, Keberle, Boyle, Brind'amour, and that is just the start of the list. Get serious.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryz
You would be the worst GM in sports history if you value all the guys on that list over Phaneuf. Some of them aren't even in the ballpark. Guys like Gionta, Bergeron, Keberle, Boyle, Brind'amour, and that is just the start of the list. Get serious.
just another anti-Flame

Get used to it. They are everywhere around here.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:05 PM
  #34
Evil Sather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryz
You would be the worst GM in sports history if you value all the guys on that list over Phaneuf. Some of them aren't even in the ballpark. Guys like Gionta, Bergeron, Keberle, Boyle, Brind'amour, and that is just the start of the list. Get serious.
I'm so sorry I lowered my player valueing abilities in your eyes. Uhh... Gionta on pace for 46 goals, Bergeron who IMO the sky is the limit for, Kaberle who would be an upgrade on Phaneuf this year and for the playoffs (and spare me the soft euro garbage, please), Boyle who's a legit #1 and IS Tampa's defense this year (and is also better than Phaneuf), and Brind'Amour who has a ridiculous 16 PPGs in addition to tremendous defensive and leadership abilities... yeah.

I'm sorry I actually put stock in wanting guys who could help my team win the Cup as opposed to having the best guys under 26 in the league. That kinda factored in, if I'm going to give Phaneuf's potential due consideration, I'm going to give veteran leadership and the like its due consideration as well.

My statement was 50 guys (which I exceeded) I'd rather have right now than Phaneuf... and I stand by it. Minus Nagy, he's gone for the season.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:08 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzzy
just another anti-Flame

Get used to it. They are everywhere around here.
What? I'm a Rangers fan. I couldn't possibly give less than a crap about the Flames. I just happen to think that Phaneuf isn't the second coming of the Messiah. Oops. Guess that makes me an anti-Flame.

Forgive me...

Dion who art in heaven
Hallowed by thy name...
Thy Saddledome come
Thy hitting done.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
I'm so sorry I lowered my player valueing abilities in your eyes. Uhh... Gionta on pace for 46 goals, Bergeron who IMO the sky is the limit for, Kaberle who would be an upgrade on Phaneuf this year and for the playoffs (and spare me the soft euro garbage, please), Boyle who's a legit #1 and IS Tampa's defense this year (and is also better than Phaneuf), and Brind'Amour who has a ridiculous 16 PPGs in addition to tremendous defensive and leadership abilities... yeah.

I'm sorry I actually put stock in wanting guys who could help my team win the Cup as opposed to having the best guys under 26 in the league. That kinda factored in, if I'm going to give Phaneuf's potential due consideration, I'm going to give veteran leadership and the like its due consideration as well.

My statement was 50 guys (which I exceeded) I'd rather have right now than Phaneuf... and I stand by it. Minus Nagy, he's gone for the season.
I'm sorry, but objectively, your list is hardly convincing. Just for the sake of trying to make your point, you just picked the better players on each team. E.g., Hejduk, a forward with 3 more points than Phaneuf; Zherdev, again, a forward with fewer points, playing with Nash and lazy at that; Blake, minus-9 and comparable points; Bergeron, ; Boyle, 30 years old, Tampa's #1 at minus-3 and comparable points; Legwand etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
I'm sorry I actually put stock in wanting guys who could help my team win the Cup as opposed to having the best guys under 26 in the league.
You got us there...Phaneuf could not help the Flames win the cup. He's under 26. Interesting bifurcation.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:42 PM
  #37
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It seems to me like Phaneuf is getting overrated by a bit...
That said, Calgary would have to be absolutely stupid to think about trading him.

That doesn't mean that you could get everything for him, nor does it make him more valuable than all the other players in the world.
Somewhat young PPG-players and core-defenders with a meanstreak don't grow on trees, it is not unreasonable to expect someone like Phaneuf in return. Especially when one of them is the captain and face of the franchise (or was, until Thornton came in).

Since the offer came from a Calgary-fan and not from a Sharks-fan, I don't see why there is even any debate about it. If it was the other way round, maybe I could understand it, but since you wouldn't see a Sharks fan offering Marleau around, it is a moot point.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:52 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
I'm so sorry I lowered my player valueing abilities in your eyes. Uhh... Gionta on pace for 46 goals, Bergeron who IMO the sky is the limit for, Kaberle who would be an upgrade on Phaneuf this year and for the playoffs (and spare me the soft euro garbage, please), Boyle who's a legit #1 and IS Tampa's defense this year (and is also better than Phaneuf), and Brind'Amour who has a ridiculous 16 PPGs in addition to tremendous defensive and leadership abilities... yeah.

I'm sorry I actually put stock in wanting guys who could help my team win the Cup as opposed to having the best guys under 26 in the league. That kinda factored in, if I'm going to give Phaneuf's potential due consideration, I'm going to give veteran leadership and the like its due consideration as well.

My statement was 50 guys (which I exceeded) I'd rather have right now than Phaneuf... and I stand by it. Minus Nagy, he's gone for the season.
To each his own I guess, but I sure wouldn't want you anywhere around my organization.

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Old
02-09-2006, 12:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson
It seems to me like Phaneuf is getting overrated by a bit...
That said, Calgary would have to be absolutely stupid to think about trading him.
I'm not sure that Phaneuf is being overrated...some posters seem to think that we are worshipping Dion. Not true, he is just untradeable, as you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson
That doesn't mean that you could get everything for him, nor does it make him more valuable than all the other players in the world.
Agreed. We'd never land Ovechkin for Phaneuf, nor many other players. There is an intangible list out there of untradeable players and Phaneuf is on it. Doesn't mean we worship the kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson
Since the offer came from a Calgary-fan and not from a Sharks-fan, I don't see why there is even any debate about it. If it was the other way round, maybe I could understand it, but since you wouldn't see a Sharks fan offering Marleau around, it is a moot point.
See below

Quote:
Originally Posted by corbanSOG
if you want BOTH marleau and mclaren, start with phaneuf.
This guy has "crazy-legs cheechoo" in his profile. My judgement is that this is a Sharks fan.


Last edited by Rudolf Yaber: 02-09-2006 at 01:08 PM.
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Old
02-09-2006, 12:55 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryz
To each his own I guess, but I sure wouldn't want you anywhere around my organization.
Sustained!

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:02 PM
  #41
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Nice list Sather. I was up for a good laugh. Because it's harder to compare forwards to defencemen lets look at the defencemen you would take over Phaneuf.

Pitkanen (very debateable)
Redden
Chara
McCabe (yeah right)
Kaberle (yeah right)
Boyle (see above)
Lidstrom
Timmonen (debatable)
Ohlund
Pronger
Blake
Mara (way to discredit yourself with this one)

So maybe you should qualify yourself here. Are these guys that you would want to help you win right away? Are these guys that you want to build your team around? Are these guys that you think have higher trade value that Phaneuf?

Because I'll tell you what Phaneuf has more trade value then half of this list. He has a shot at breaking the rookie defenceman goal scoring record.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:06 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan
Because I'll tell you what Phaneuf has more trade value then half of this list. He has a shot at breaking the rookie defenceman goal scoring record.
Nope, he's over rated.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:08 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Ug. Well, whatever. I'll just go down the team list in the standings. I'll even throw out some numbers so your poor self doesn't have to count.

1) Kaberle
Boyle
Legace
Legwand
Timmonen
56) Mara
Dude, Legace?

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:15 PM
  #44
Evil Sather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan
Nice list Sather. I was up for a good laugh. Because it's harder to compare forwards to defencemen lets look at the defencemen you would take over Phaneuf.

Pitkanen (very debateable)
Redden
Chara
McCabe (yeah right)
Kaberle (yeah right)
Boyle (see above)
Lidstrom
Timmonen (debatable)
Ohlund
Pronger
Blake
Mara (way to discredit yourself with this one)

So maybe you should qualify yourself here. Are these guys that you would want to help you win right away? Are these guys that you want to build your team around? Are these guys that you think have higher trade value that Phaneuf?

Because I'll tell you what Phaneuf has more trade value then half of this list. He has a shot at breaking the rookie defenceman goal scoring record.
Qualify myself? To who? You? Who the hell are you? I made my list, explained the rationale, but fine I'll do it again. I did it with something of a mix of guys I'd build my team around (Spezza, Staal), guys who are in their primes (Kovalchuk, Hossa), and veterans who would help me win a cup in this year or soon after (Brind'Amour, Blake, Hasek). Since I tend to favor veterans over youngsters because of the track record (witness Jordan Leopold, untouchable with a capital U a couple years ago being thrown around in 5 proposals in the last week-ish. Might this happen to Phaneuf in 2008? ) I have more veterans on my list, but it's more a general favoritism. Generally I'd rather take the devil I know for say 4 more years and be sure of their production and effort than take a chance on a younger player who might not maintain their early production.

To the "yeah right" for McCabe and Boyle, well, YOU discredited yourself right there. I'm very comfortable with my list and rationale, and glad I could make you laugh.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:17 PM
  #45
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Leopold and Kobasew for Marleau I'd do.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:17 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
Dude, Legace?
Leading the league in shutouts, GAA, and I believe 3rd in save % (fractions behind Hasek and Lundqvist)? He's not doing it Osgood style either, I've been really really impressed with him this year. Of course, you could have made the same argument about Kipprusoff halfway through the 03-04 season, though probably not to a Flames fan. And look how he's turned out.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:19 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear
Leopold and Kobasew for Marleau I'd do.
There we go!

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:30 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Perogieboy
There we go!
I think its fair. Maybe throw in a late pk as well from CGY.

I think Kobasew could be had if Sutter finds a premiere centre he can land. Kobasew has potential, but hes too inconsistent.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:35 PM
  #49
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Marleau: 58 points in 54 games (Better than a PPG), consistant, great 1-2 punch with Thornton, 26 years old, good contract

Kobasew: 56 games, 16g 7a 23p, admittedly inconsistant
Leopold: 56 games, 0g, 11a, 11p can't comment on consistancy

Any rationale for San Jose doing this? I'm not trying to slag Kobasew and Leopold, but what's the Sharks motivation? Why? Other than to help the Flames return to the Cup Finals.

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Old
02-09-2006, 01:41 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear
Kobasew has potential, but hes too inconsistent.
I love Chuckie...but the Sharks do not need any more of those. They already have their hands full. Good job at looking at one team's POV though.

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