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Old
10-23-2003, 02:21 AM
  #1
PhillyNucksFan
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Sedins

I was just checking some stats..

Sedin, Daniel 1G 6A +1, 2PIM 4 PP points
Sedin, Henrik 1G 3A +1 0PIM 1 PP points

Statistically, they are more than enough for 2nd line players.. but realistically, somehow... they just dont look like 2nd line... I dont know..

but if they continue somewhat at this pace.. both of them could reach 55-60 pt plateau!!! now, thats more than GOOD..

and I am surprised on how well D. Sedin is playing.. he getting not just shots, but good shots, still cycle just as well, and King is there to finish so far..

and 3rd line.. man.. they look like 2nd line to me when they constantly create many good chances just by banging/chasing/dumping!

and about May.. someone remind me why we signed him..?? I dont think he was really that visible/effective??.. even though he did get the suspension for today's game..

and Cloutier........................ that first goal... I was just watching the game and was still in the mood of "OH YA, 1-0 baby".. then a innocent looking shot got through... and I was like WTF.....


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Old
10-23-2003, 06:26 AM
  #2
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Cloutier did redeem himself after the bad goal, we can't forget about that. But yes that goal was brutal. Good rebound after that for Cloutier.

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10-23-2003, 08:09 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by nuksforlife
Cloutier did redeem himself after the bad goal, we can't forget about that. But yes that goal was brutal. Good rebound after that for Cloutier.
Exactly.

Every goaltender will allow a weak goal on occasion. It is just a fact of life.

If not for Cloutier last night, St.Louis would have won with relative ease.

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Old
10-23-2003, 09:20 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNucksFan
Statistically, they are more than enough for 2nd line players.. but realistically, somehow... they just dont look like 2nd line... I dont know..
Right now they're putting up first line numbers... actually better than our first line which many would argue is among the top few 1st lines in the league, despite their current slump.

I fail to see how they don't "look like" a second line - if they keep up their play they'll be an excellent second line - exactly what the doctor ordered.

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10-23-2003, 09:32 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNucksFan
I was just checking some stats..

Sedin, Daniel 1G 6A +1, 2PIM 4 PP points
Sedin, Henrik 1G 3A +1 0PIM 1 PP points

Statistically, they are more than enough for 2nd line players.. but realistically, somehow... they just dont look like 2nd line... I dont know..
They look like prototypical 2nd line players to me: create offense while still playing a sound two-way game.

Quote:
and I am surprised on how well D. Sedin is playing.. he getting not just shots, but good shots, still cycle just as well, and King is there to finish so far..
It's great to see. But I wouldn't be tooooo surprised. It's easy to forget that Daniel came into the league and put up 20g in a shortened rookie season at the young age of 19/20. Those are great numbers for a player that young. No doubt he's struggled since then (mostly with confidence IMO), but he has shown the ability in the past.

Quote:
and about May.. someone remind me why we signed him..?? I dont think he was really that visible/effective??.. even though he did get the suspension for today's game..
For a fourth liner, I would say he's done his job. And he provides the Canucks with someone who can fight if need be (someone who isn't one of our star players). He also provides some leadership.

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Old
10-23-2003, 09:57 AM
  #6
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some great input!

Cloutier, true, he did redeem himself after that goal, BUT, what worries me is not how he DID redeem himself after the goal, its the reputation he set up... I know its kinda confusing to say this, but, how should I put this... Cloutier is not intimidating, and he gives the other team "hope" even if they're down 2-1, 3-1...even to teams who cant score a lot.. I.E. Wilds... and IMO, Cloutier let in a bad goal pretty frequently too, or "too occationally"..?

I know, thats why I wasnt sure how to put the 2nd line comment into words. they put up great numbers!!! I guess what i mean is, they just dont have the respect from other teams yet? I guess its just too early into this season to tell anything.. but its GREAT to see D. Sedin playing right now!! and yes, he did score 20 in rookie season, but carried away by disappointing seasons after that i guess.. and WCE line will produce at some point, but I really dont think they can duplicate last year's number.. who knows!! Once Bertuzzi get his contract, maybe he will fire up and throw some hits like the one on Jackman, and on a 15 game point streak..

About May, well, I have never been to a canucks dressing room.. so I have no idea how influencial he is on the leadership part, or experience part.. but to me, I rather put Ruutu/Keane out there. (Keane as PK specialist) than May IMO.. I like the idea of "team toughness".. besides, Canucks isnt exactly a small team, in fact, one of the biggest in the league.. With this being said, I guess having players like May around wont hurt you..

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Old
10-23-2003, 10:12 AM
  #7
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Few goalies intimidate other teams, and no goalies intimidate good teams. It doesn't matter if Brodeur or Hasek is in net, the good teams know that if they keep pounding away, they will get thir goals.

The key here is that the canucks are winning. As long as cloutier keeps the canucks in the games (as he did on Drake's break-away last night), we have nothing to worry about. He has been good at coming up with timely saves, and thats what counts. IF he gives up a solt goal when we are up 6-0, or early in the first period, canucks fans should give him the benifit of the doubt.

As for the sedins, anyone else notice that they just don't have that look on their faces like they aren't sure if they belong? The first 2 1/2 years, they just kinda looked out of place and not confident at all when you saw their faces. That changed at the end of last year, now they have a bit of swagger to them, and are aggressively forcing the play, not just letting the plays happen.

Anybody else agree?

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Old
10-23-2003, 10:43 AM
  #8
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I think it's a pretty big stretch to say he's good at coming up with timely saves. He is however quite good at giving up soft and untimely goals (see Columbus' first goal on a terrible shot, his gaff in Detroit on the winner, and St. Louis first goal on a weak shot). Goals that tied the game, lost the game, and/or gave the opposition jump when they shouldn't have had any.

Look he had a solid game after he let in the weak one and kudos for him. But quite frankly it's his job to make a few big saves EACH and EVERY game like EVERY OTHER starter in the league. However, it is also his job to not let in weak goals at the frequency he has in the past. And those are the things that have been the problem...not making the big save or coming up with the huge game when the team really needs it (stretch drives and playoffs) and letting in those weak goals that give the opposition life.

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Old
10-23-2003, 11:55 AM
  #9
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Having watched most of the games in this short season, I'm kind of suprised why you don't see the Sedins as a decent second line. Also, you might want to keep in mind, they are playing with a rookie as well, not some veteran goal scoring machine... no knock on King, as he's doing very well.

They are still growing, so there is a chance that down the road they may develop more of a physical game, but I don't think that's really how they play. For players who aren't the prototypical big strong forwards, they have no difficulty what so ever playing in traffic, and are very successful when doing so. A great deal of the time they are on the ice they are dangerous and are giving every indication that they will be better down the road. It seem to me that by the time the Sedins are physically matured, they will be very capable of beind exceptional second line or decent first line hockey players. Watching how much difficulty the 3rd and 4th lines had the other evening just trying to set up on the PP, should give us some indication how talented the Sedins are at controlling the ice and moving the puck around. At this point in the season, they are better than the #1 unit on the PP.

I was over on the Avs board board checking out the Konowalchuk trade chat, and there it is again. A poster throwing out the common knowledge that the Sedins are a bust. I just don't understand how people can actually watch these guys play and not see how much talent they have, plus a fantastic work ethic and that drive to succeed.

A great deal of the success the CAnucks get this year will be due to the Sedins.

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Old
10-23-2003, 12:16 PM
  #10
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I don't think it's mentioned enough about the Sedins that they are actually quite strong along the boards. They are rarely stripped or bumped off the puck once they cycle down low. If anyone's ever played hockeyd before, you'll understand what an amzing skill that is.

Now, the difference this year, it seems that they are coming out of the corners now and driving to the net or shooting the puck at the net. Whereas in years past, it seemed they just cycled endlessly in the corner and nothing happened.

I'm happy of their success.

Also, for all those in other cities that think the Sedins are a bust, well they'll be in for a wakeup call when Dan and Henrik come to your town and show you what they really have. I think they're really solid hockey citizens. They've made a believer (this early in the season) out of me.

I think they will be 45-60 point producers for a long time. Keep it up!

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Old
10-23-2003, 12:43 PM
  #11
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The most encouraging aspect of the Sedins play, this year, has been not only that they are getting some points but that they've had so many other opportunities when they just about scored. They probably created more offensive chances than any line on the team.

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10-23-2003, 02:24 PM
  #12
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One thing that makes their play even more encouraging is that this production is coming with their line playing only about 3rd line ice time each game. A more in-depth stats comparison:

Daniel Sedin (16th on team in ice-time)
1G 6A 7pts +1 16 shots in 12:51 mins/game through 7 games
Henrik Sedin (15th on team in ice-time)
1G 3A 4pts +1 6 shots in 13:06 mins/game through 7 games
Jason King (13th on team in ice-time)
3G 2A 5pts +1 11 shots in 13:12 mins/game through 6 games
Total Production of Line:
5G 11A 16pts +3 33 shots


Then our top line:

Markus Naslund (7th on team in ice-time)
2G 1A 3pts +5 21 shots in 18:52 mins/game through 7 games
Brendan Morrison (6th on team in ice-time)
2G 3A 5pts +5 14 shots in 19:22 mins/game through 7 games
Todd Bertuzzi (5th on team in ice-time)
1G 2A 3pts +4 15 shots in 19:41 mins/game through 7 games
Total Production of Line:
5G 6A 11pts +14 50 shots


While I don't think anyone is too concerned about the top line picking up their play, it is encouraging to note that the Sedins have improved by themselves, and not as a result of increased ice-time or at the expense of our top line. While a lot of credit should go to King for providing some finish to that line, every one of his goals has been assisted by at least one Sedin. Kudos to the 2nd line and an internal solution (at least in the here and now) to our secondary scoring "problem"

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Old
10-23-2003, 02:49 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castor Troy
One thing that makes their play even more encouraging is that this production is coming with their line playing only about 3rd line ice time each game. A more in-depth stats comparison:

Daniel Sedin (16th on team in ice-time)
1G 6A 7pts +1 16 shots in 12:51 mins/game through 7 games
Henrik Sedin (15th on team in ice-time)
1G 3A 4pts +1 6 shots in 13:06 mins/game through 7 games
Jason King (13th on team in ice-time)
3G 2A 5pts +1 11 shots in 13:12 mins/game through 6 games
Total Production of Line:
5G 11A 16pts +3 33 shots


Then our top line:

Markus Naslund (7th on team in ice-time)
2G 1A 3pts +5 21 shots in 18:52 mins/game through 7 games
Brendan Morrison (6th on team in ice-time)
2G 3A 5pts +5 14 shots in 19:22 mins/game through 7 games
Todd Bertuzzi (5th on team in ice-time)
1G 2A 3pts +4 15 shots in 19:41 mins/game through 7 games
Total Production of Line:
5G 6A 11pts +14 50 shots


While I don't think anyone is too concerned about the top line picking up their play, it is encouraging to note that the Sedins have improved by themselves, and not as a result of increased ice-time or at the expense of our top line. While a lot of credit should go to King for providing some finish to that line, every one of his goals has been assisted by at least one Sedin. Kudos to the 2nd line and an internal solution (at least in the here and now) to our secondary scoring "problem"
werd!

Like I said, its hard to express what/how I feel about them as 2nd liners.. but since I only follow the canucks, maybe the other teams have ultimately worse 2nd lines than the canucks.. guess I just aim too high, nevertheless, I am extremely happy to see the way Sedins play so far!! they playing great!!

about them being busts.. well, I think they're just late-comers, who will be good 50-60 pt players for 10+ years.. and I guess thats all u can ask for first rounders.. after all, not every first rounders are Greztky or Lemieux..

who knows, they could be all-stars in the near future!!

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Old
10-23-2003, 02:56 PM
  #14
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Wow those stats are impressive Castor. I knew the Sedin-King line was playing well but hadnt realized how much they were producing.

The fourth year is traditionally the 'breakout year' for players...The Sedins definitely look like theyre breaking out of that sister nonsense.

On the whole, i definitely love our lines this year...The 1st unit, with bertuzzi and naslund we all know what they can do. The aformentioned surprisingly(well not really) effective 2nd unit. I love the Linden Arvedson Cooke line. I only wish Chubarov had better linemates to complete four solid lines but sandpaper is good.

breakout year for sedins!

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Old
10-23-2003, 03:03 PM
  #15
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When you look at around at some of the other youngsters the Sedins age who are getting wraps you start to wonder whether people look at the stats in detail. Zetterberg is going great, he's got 4 points in 6 games. The difference between the Sedins and Zetterberg is Zetterberg gets 50% more ice time!

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Old
10-24-2003, 06:22 AM
  #16
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wait for their first slump - then we'll hear all the "trade them now" talk again

they've been playing really well... I've watched all the games so far, and IMO they've been the most consistent line for the team through all the games... the top line has had their struggles offensively so far - too often... the 3rd line has had 1 great game, a couple good ones... the 4th line as well has had 1 great game, and has been decent in others.

The Sedins and King though have been strong in every game... they're giving us exactly what we need - a 2nd line to provide an offensive presense!

With the first line - we all know they will get their offense into gear, but what I've been impressed with is this new found defensive focus by Naslund and Bertuzzi... there is a world of difference in their defensive attitudes and play overall away from the puck! the offense will come, but it's great to see them this dedicated to the "smaller" things.... I'd be happier with a drop off in their production and their current defensive game, then seeing them get 90-100 pts but hovering around an even to +2-3 range.

overall, so far, despite our usual ups and downs, it's looking to be a promising season still... no team has really distinguished themselves in our conference as the run away favs, and even the mighty Wings, Avs, Stars are all showing that they have their weaknesses (just like us)...

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10-24-2003, 02:27 PM
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The MATTRESS line: Two twins and a King.

I just read that on canucks.com

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10-24-2003, 02:36 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia
The MATTRESS line: Two twins and a King.

I just read that on canucks.com
LOL that's great. we gotta go with that.

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10-24-2003, 02:45 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia
The MATTRESS line: Two twins and a King.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

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Old
10-24-2003, 04:59 PM
  #20
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LoL... lol

Twin and King.. hey, i got both at my home!!

hahah

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Old
10-24-2003, 07:30 PM
  #21
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Yeah they said that on Sports Page last night I think.

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Old
10-24-2003, 08:30 PM
  #22
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King article: http://www.mytelus.com/sports/articl...icleID=1441332

Also in that article it says that Bertuzzi can't be criticized... only stroked.

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Old
10-25-2003, 06:20 PM
  #23
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That's a pretty good one.

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