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Top-40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers - Voting Results

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Old
03-27-2017, 01:58 AM
  #1
quoipourquoi
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Top-40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers - Voting Results

Vote 1

Round 1 Participants

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10thNoneTotal
Wayne Gretzky 7 3 1 99
Patrick Roy 2 5 2 1 1 88
Maurice Richard 1 3 4 2 1 77
Jean Beliveau 3 4 2 2 74
Gordie Howe 1 1 2 1 3 2 1 63
Doug Harvey 2 1 2 1 1 3 1 58
Mark Messier 2 2 2 2 3 36
Jacques Plante 1 3 1 1 1 1 3 34
Denis Potvin 1 2 2 2 1 3 25
Mario Lemieux 1 1 3 2 4 23
Bobby Orr 2 2 4 3 16
Joe Sakic 1 1 2 7 7
Guy Lafleur 1 1 9 5

Open Ballot

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10thNoneTotal
Wayne Gretzky 8 3 1 109
Patrick Roy 2 5 3 1 1 96
Maurice Richard 1 3 5 2 1 84
Jean Beliveau 3 4 2 3 79
Gordie Howe 1 1 2 2 3 2 1 69
Doug Harvey 2 1 1 2 1 1 3 1 67
Mark Messier 2 2 3 2 3 40
Jacques Plante 1 3 1 2 1 1 3 37
Denis Potvin 1 2 2 2 2 3 26
Mario Lemieux 1 1 4 2 4 25
Bobby Orr 2 2 4 4 16
Joe Sakic 1 1 2 8 7
Guy Lafleur 1 1 10 5

Vote 2

April 7th-9th

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03-27-2017, 02:30 AM
  #2
Plural
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Judging by the similarity of the participants ballot and open ballot, there was only one ballot coming outside of the participants?

Nice to see Gretzky to get the nod. I strongly believe that he's the greatest player in regular season and in playoffs.

Bit surprised to see Gretzky getting one 9th place vote and Roy one 10th place vote. I guess the discussion will open further when the voting is complete but both are difficult position to take.

Harvey getting two first place votes is interesting too. Not saying it's a weak vote for 1st, but I certainly didn't expect him to get a nod over Gretzky AND Roy even once.

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03-27-2017, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plural View Post
Bit surprised to see Gretzky getting one 9th place vote
I guess Stan Fischler is on the forum...

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03-27-2017, 06:36 AM
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The Hockey Socrates
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With a little (very little) effort, everyone can see who I've voted for, but my one voice didn't effect any placement.

I would have loved to see Harvey place a bit higher, but this is a great list so far with a clear top 6.

Player


Wayne Gretzky 7 3 1 99
Patrick Roy 2 5 2 1 1 88
Maurice Richard 1 3 4 2 1 77

And I've ruined a beautiful 99-88-77 stat line.

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03-27-2017, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Socrates View Post
With a little (very little) effort, everyone can see who I've voted for, but my one voice didn't effect any placement.

I would have loved to see Harvey place a bit higher, but this is a great list so far with a clear top 6.

Player


Wayne Gretzky 7 3 1 99
Patrick Roy 2 5 2 1 1 88
Maurice Richard 1 3 4 2 1 77

And I've ruined a beautiful 99-88-77 stat line.
At least you didn't ruin a Gretzky - Lindros - Bourque 99-88-77 statline.

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04-10-2017, 03:47 AM
  #6
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Vote 2

Round 1 Participants

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10thNoneTotal
Doug Harvey 4 2 1 1 1 71
Mark Messier 2 2 2 2 1 62
Jacques Plante 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 57
Ted Kennedy 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 54
Denis Potvin 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 48
Mario Lemieux 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 43
Red Kelly 4 1 2 2 41
Bobby Orr 1 2 2 1 1 2 35
Joe Sakic 1 2 1 2 1 2 29
Ken Dryden 1 1 1 6 17
Turk Broda 2 1 1 5 15
Guy Lafleur 1 3 3 2 12
Larry Robinson 1 2 6 7
Mike Bossy 1 1 7 4
Nicklas Lidstrom 9 0

Open Ballot

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10thNoneTotal
Doug Harvey 5 2 1 2 1 1 93
Mark Messier 2 4 3 2 1 88
Ted Kennedy 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 1 66
Jacques Plante 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 65
Denis Potvin 2 1 1 1 1 1 3 2 63
Mario Lemieux 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 1 57
Red Kelly 5 1 2 4 48
Bobby Orr 1 1 2 2 1 2 3 45
Joe Sakic 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 3 41
Guy Lafleur 1 1 1 4 3 2 26
Turk Broda 1 2 1 1 7 25
Ken Dryden 1 1 1 1 8 19
Larry Robinson 1 2 2 7 14
Mike Bossy 1 1 2 8 10
Nicklas Lidstrom 12 0

Vote 3

April 21st-23rd

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04-10-2017, 03:56 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I'm not 100% sure I'd have Harvey over Lafleur in this particular category.

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04-10-2017, 04:13 AM
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Wow welcome back TDMM! Very nice to see you again.

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04-10-2017, 06:06 AM
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Mike Farkas
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Messier didn't make a ballot that round, that's interesting to me...

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04-10-2017, 09:09 AM
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Dennis Bonvie
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So 4 of the all-time best playoff performers played on the same team.

How about that.

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04-10-2017, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
So 4 of the all-time best playoff performers played on the same team.

How about that.
I noticed that, too. You'd think they won 10 or 15 Cups in a row if they were that stacked.

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04-10-2017, 09:21 AM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by danincanada View Post
I noticed that, too. You'd think they won 10 or 15 Cups in a row if they were that stacked.
And now Boom Boom and the Pocket Rocket are sure to be added.

Yes, this doesn't seem right.

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04-10-2017, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
And now Boom Boom and the Pocket Rocket are sure to be added.

Yes, this doesn't seem right.
Yup. These types of lists can only be given as much credence as those who vote on them. Knowing that, I take it with grain of salt.

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04-10-2017, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
So 4 of the all-time best playoff performers played on the same team.

How about that.
Which is why it was the greatest team ever.It was a perfect storm.

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04-10-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
So 4 of the all-time best playoff performers played on the same team.

How about that.
I felt the same (I'm one of the Jacques Plante outliers).

Having said that, their playoff success did seem to surpass regular season performance, and Richard and Beliveau were already considered locks in the top-4. Should Doug Harvey be the top playoff defenseman? I came away thinking possibly.

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04-10-2017, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danincanada View Post
I noticed that, too. You'd think they won 10 or 15 Cups in a row if they were that stacked.
From 1956 to 1960, only 2 series from Montreal's 5 in a row went to 6 games and 0 went to 7 games.

Think about that, it's utter dominance.

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04-10-2017, 11:16 AM
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Yeah, it's easy to complain about...right up until you look into it. Like qpq said, Beliveau and Richard weren't not gonna be there, they are national heroes in this regard...

Those are four of the top 12 players of all-time according to the top 100 list...

Harvey was rated the #2 d-man of all-time in the defensemen list...Beliveau the #3 center, Richard the #3 winger, Plante the #3 goalie...

We've vetted these guys a million times over and we keep coming up with the same conclusion..."they are really, really good"

They have, what, 30 Cups between the four of them...? It all adds up. Moreover, there was plenty of time to make a strong case for others and it wasn't there...one guy is in there trolling about nonsense, the rest of us are having decent conversation and comparing video/notes/stats and what not and we're just not coming to any different conclusion...the team that was winning all the time had a lot of really good players...

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04-10-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plural View Post

Bit surprised to see Gretzky getting one 9th place vote and Roy one 10th place vote.
Gretzky I can completely understand because they wanted his total votes to add up to 99.

Otherwise all I can say is whoever voted them 9 and 10... yikes.

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04-10-2017, 11:32 AM
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I do think we kinda screwed up on the identity of the best non-Hab, non-Howe 06 player.

On the other hand, it could also be used retrospectively to say that we didnt go full cup-counting.

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04-10-2017, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I felt the same (I'm one of the Jacques Plante outliers).

Having said that, their playoff success did seem to surpass regular season performance, and Richard and Beliveau were already considered locks in the top-4. Should Doug Harvey be the top playoff defenseman? I came away thinking possibly.
Bench Brawl asked me in the other thread what my top 10 would have looked like. I think it would have been pretty similar to your top 10, probably with Roy and Gretzky switched and a few other minor changes. But at least prior to discussion, I don't think I'd have Harvey that high. Nothing against him, but I'm not sure what separates him from "the pack" (Potvin, Orr, etc) in the playoffs.

Rocket Richard and Jean Beliveau were outstanding in the playoffs before or after the team was the most stacked of all-time. Harvey had the unfortunate (for us, not him!) luck of having his prime almost perfectly overlap with that most stacked team of all-time.

That's one reason I wasn't really joking when I said I'd seriously consider Lafleur over Harvey on my own list.

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04-10-2017, 01:22 PM
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I didn't vote for Orr because one of my foundation principles for this thing is "number of impact playoffs" - I want as many flamboyantly good playoff runs as you can amass because the ultimate goal is to contribute towards a Cup win...

I don't hold as much in being a, say, PPG player in seven playoff runs where you went out in round two...or, going 3 for 3 with dominant playoff runs versus a guy that goes 5 for 9...so to speak...I want the 5...

I don't have my notes at work, but I think I worked up Harvey having about 9 really imapctful playoffs...more than all other comers...

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04-10-2017, 03:33 PM
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Playing Together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
So 4 of the all-time best playoff performers played on the same team.

How about that.
Great players playing as a team, not individuals, sacrificing personal stats for team results gets recognized.

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04-10-2017, 03:58 PM
  #23
quoipourquoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Bench Brawl asked me in the other thread what my top 10 would have looked like. I think it would have been pretty similar to your top 10, probably with Roy and Gretzky switched and a few other minor changes. But at least prior to discussion, I don't think I'd have Harvey that high. Nothing against him, but I'm not sure what separates him from "the pack" (Potvin, Orr, etc) in the playoffs.
I think I had Harvey at #22 in Round 1. I'm not sure at what point I started swaying away from Orr/Potvin in Vote 1, but I think he was probably gaining as Richard and Plante were dropping for me. In the end, they might have had fewer negatives than the crowd. I think that is something that might hurt Lafleur and Dryden who had shorter windows.

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04-10-2017, 05:41 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Yeah, it's easy to complain about...right up until you look into it. Like qpq said, Beliveau and Richard weren't not gonna be there, they are national heroes in this regard...

Those are four of the top 12 players of all-time according to the top 100 list...

Harvey was rated the #2 d-man of all-time in the defensemen list...Beliveau the #3 center, Richard the #3 winger, Plante the #3 goalie...

We've vetted these guys a million times over and we keep coming up with the same conclusion..."they are really, really good"

They have, what, 30 Cups between the four of them...? It all adds up. Moreover, there was plenty of time to make a strong case for others and it wasn't there...one guy is in there trolling about nonsense, the rest of us are having decent conversation and comparing video/notes/stats and what not and we're just not coming to any different conclusion...the team that was winning all the time had a lot of really good players...
And now they are 4 of the top 8 in playoffs. With 2 more coming up very soon.

Just seems odd when you consider the other Montreal dynasty team of the 70's does not have a single player in the top ten.

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04-10-2017, 09:54 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
And now they are 4 of the top 8 in playoffs. With 2 more coming up very soon.

Just seems odd when you consider the other Montreal dynasty team of the 70's does not have a single player in the top ten.
Richard and Beliveau made huge contributions outside of the 56-60 dynasty though. Plante to a lesser extent as well. The members of the 70's dynasty that are up for voting did comparably less outside of their dynasty years, especially Lafleur.

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