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Old
03-27-2017, 09:48 PM
  #26
WannabeFinn
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In case you forgot how absolutely dominant Bob was in '12-13, he would have absolutely won the Vezina even if it had been a full-length season.

It's a legitimate win and his 2nd Vezina is only going to solidify his status as one of this generation's great netminders.

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03-27-2017, 10:07 PM
  #27
blahblah
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Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
In case you forgot how absolutely dominant Bob was in '12-13, he would have absolutely won the Vezina even if it had been a full-length season.
As I said you aren't going to change my mind. We've already discussed it, so really all you are doing is trolling. You are not our resident Nostradamus and Bob has, notoriously, been a partial season performer.

And I'm out because I'm just going to continue to read crap like this.

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03-27-2017, 10:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
As I said you aren't going to change my mind. We've already discussed it, so really all you are doing is trolling. You are not our resident Nostradamus and Bob has, notoriously, been a partial season performer.

And I'm out because I'm just going to continue to read crap like this.
Ah yes, the partial season performer that is 2nd in the league in sv% from 2012 til now.

Also, calling anyone who disagrees with you a troll is hilarious

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03-28-2017, 05:26 AM
  #29
The Old Guy
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
As I said you aren't going to change my mind. We've already discussed it, so really all you are doing is trolling. You are not our resident Nostradamus and Bob has, notoriously, been a partial season performer.

And I'm out because I'm just going to continue to read crap like this.
Are we permitted to discuss it without attempting to change your mind?

Is it possible that we leave you and your opinion on this matter alone and the rest of us have a conversation?

Did we wander into some space that has been marked as your domain only?

Personally, I'd like to talk about it, because I kinda see your point, and would like to compare and contrast his two best seasons. But above all else, I want to be considerate of others. I'm not an "F You and your opinion" kinda guy.

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Old
03-28-2017, 05:33 AM
  #30
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Are we permitted to discuss it without attempting to change your mind?
Let me make it easy for you. 98% of you don't agree with me. I know that, I acknowledge that. There is nothing to debate, it's been done. A lot.

The posts above me illustrate why I don't want to. It simply come down to mocking. It illustrates why a good portion of these posters are total hypocrites - I'm the one with the reputation of only wanting to argue. The only reason that poster posted was to start an argument (thus trolling). I tried to head it off, but there always has to be one.

Just so it's clear, the reason for most of you to continue this conversation would simply be to discuss how wrong I am and, for some, to mock. If that's really want you want, sure go for it.


Last edited by blahblah: 03-28-2017 at 06:33 AM.
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Old
03-28-2017, 07:01 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Let me make it easy for you. 98% of you don't agree with me. I know that, I acknowledge that. There is nothing to debate, it's been done. A lot.

The posts above me illustrate why I don't want to. It simply come down to mocking. It illustrates why a good portion of these posters are total hypocrites - I'm the one with the reputation of only wanting to argue. The only reason that poster posted was to start an argument (thus trolling). I tried to head it off, but there always has to be one.

Just so it's clear, the reason for most of you to continue this conversation would simply be to discuss how wrong I am and, for some, to mock. If that's really want you want, sure go for it.
You posted your opinion on the subject, one that's on-topic in this thread. I'm pretty sure all posters will be afforded the same opportunity.

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Last edited by Double-Shift Lassé: 03-28-2017 at 07:12 AM.
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Old
03-28-2017, 07:25 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Let me make it easy for you. 98% of you don't agree with me. I know that, I acknowledge that. There is nothing to debate, it's been done. A lot.
Then why did you forcefully reiterate the point in a manner that was practically begging to be challenged?

(For the record, my counterpoint remains that such an approach should be consistent - if the rest of that season was legit, then so was Bob's Vezina. If Bob's Vezina is not legit due to the short season, then neither is MSL's Art Ross, Huberdeau's Calder, Ovechkin's Hart, Toews' Selkie, Subban's Norris, or Chicago's Stanley Cup (and thus Saad's first Cup ring). Can't pick and choose.)

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Old
03-28-2017, 07:43 AM
  #33
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Ding
Ok, fair enough, but someone had to win it. Right?

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Old
03-28-2017, 08:18 AM
  #34
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Bob would become first repeat Vezina winner of 2010's if he wins it again this year.

Someone contact Elias...but if Bob wins, I believe (can anyone verify?) that he would have the longest gap in between Vezina wins of any multiple-time winner in NHL history. (Does that stat even make sense?)

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03-28-2017, 08:32 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Let me make it easy for you. 98% of you don't agree with me. I know that, I acknowledge that. There is nothing to debate, it's been done. A lot.

The posts above me illustrate why I don't want to. It simply come down to mocking. It illustrates why a good portion of these posters are total hypocrites - I'm the one with the reputation of only wanting to argue. The only reason that poster posted was to start an argument (thus trolling). I tried to head it off, but there always has to be one.

Just so it's clear, the reason for most of you to continue this conversation would simply be to discuss how wrong I am and, for some, to mock. If that's really want you want, sure go for it.
Okay.....thanks. The fact that its been done.....a lot, well.....I guess I missed those discussions. Since I missed those, I'm not sure if I'm in the 98 or the 2. I'll let it drop. At the risk of repeating myself, I would rather not have you feel mocked, (regardless of my intent) than me participate in the discussion. Again.....thanks, and I'm being sincere.

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Old
03-28-2017, 09:17 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkandStormy View Post
Bob would become first repeat Vezina winner of 2010's if he wins it again this year.

Someone contact Elias...but if Bob wins, I believe (can anyone verify?) that he would have the longest gap in between Vezina wins of any multiple-time winner in NHL history. (Does that stat even make sense?)
If I correctly understand your question, the answer would be no. Here's Jacques Plante's trophy stats (actually a partial list as he also won the Vezina in 1956, 1957, 1958). As you can see there is a 7 year gap to his win in 68-69, a Vezina he shared with teammate Glenn Hall. There may well be others but Plante, the first goalie to wear a mask, came to mind.

1958-59 NHL Vezina Trophy
1959-60 NHL Vezina Trophy
1961-62 NHL Vezina Trophy
1961-62 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy
1968-69 NHL Vezina Trophy

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Old
03-28-2017, 09:54 AM
  #37
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Well, prior to 1981 it was a team award (basically what the Williams Jennings trophy is now).

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Old
03-28-2017, 10:02 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DarkandStormy View Post
Well, prior to 1981 it was a team award (basically what the Williams Jennings trophy is now).
Yep, true from mid-60s to 81. Plante's prior awards were all "solo".

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03-28-2017, 10:14 AM
  #39
Heinze 57
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
(For the record, my counterpoint remains that such an approach should be consistent - if the rest of that season was legit, then so was Bob's Vezina. If Bob's Vezina is not legit due to the short season, then neither is MSL's Art Ross, Huberdeau's Calder, Ovechkin's Hart, Toews' Selkie, Subban's Norris, or Chicago's Stanley Cup (and thus Saad's first Cup ring). Can't pick and choose.)
This. Every goaltender had the same number of games to earn that award in that season. Ours was the best over that period. I feel like this one for a full season will be more special because it will have happened over a full season, but that doesn't render the first illegitimate.

48 games was kind of awesome. I think 82 is far too many and the hockey suffers as a result. 48 may be too few as a slump like ours can doom a team so maybe something like 64 spread out over the calender would be perfect. It'll never happen though.

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03-28-2017, 10:26 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Heinze 57 View Post
This. Every goaltender had the same number of games to earn that award in that season. Ours was the best over that period. I feel like this one for a full season will be more special because it will have happened over a full season, but that doesn't render the first illegitimate...
I agree. The award is given to the best goalie in that particular season. Bob was the best. Every other goalie had the same chance. None was better.

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Old
03-28-2017, 10:58 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Let me make it easy for you. 98% of you don't agree with me. I know that, I acknowledge that. There is nothing to debate, it's been done. A lot.

The posts above me illustrate why I don't want to. It simply come down to mocking. It illustrates why a good portion of these posters are total hypocrites - I'm the one with the reputation of only wanting to argue. The only reason that poster posted was to start an argument (thus trolling). I tried to head it off, but there always has to be one.

Just so it's clear, the reason for most of you to continue this conversation would simply be to discuss how wrong I am and, for some, to mock. If that's really want you want, sure go for it.
You are wrong. But, you are right as well-there is nothing to debate. So stop it.

This season confirmed his performance in the lockout season. You may have had a case prior to this season, but you don't anymore. In fact, your pedantic droning just makes you look sillier than your argument already does.

Case closed. Bob's 2012-13 Vezina was no fluke nor should it be treated with an asterik*. Deal with it.

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Old
03-28-2017, 11:00 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MoeBartoli View Post
Not only our team MVP, but maybe the league MVP. I expect him to haul away the Vezina, but also believe he should be in the discussion for the Hart.
http://thehockeywriters.com/sergei-b...favorite-more/

Your idea has traction. His numbers compare very favorably to Price's last season and his value to the CBJ is arguably equivalent to that of McDavid's to the Oilers. I believe that his numbers are more impressive than either McDavid's or Crosby's.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-28-2017 at 11:07 AM.
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Old
03-28-2017, 11:29 AM
  #43
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I don't really have a dog in the hunt regarding the 2013 Vezina. I can see both sides. But it was just one cog in blah's broader argument that Bob had one great spurt but was not an elite goalie. I made the argument that if healthy, Bob was as good as it gets. Blah thought the injuries weren't the issue, Bob just wasn't that good. This season settles the argument nicely.

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03-28-2017, 12:20 PM
  #44
Heinze 57
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Right. If anything winning a Vezina this season (and even if he doesn't win) will further legitimize his 2013 Vezina. A one hit wonder he is not.

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03-28-2017, 12:27 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
As I said you aren't going to change my mind. We've already discussed it, so really all you are doing is trolling. You are not our resident Nostradamus and Bob has, notoriously, been a partial season performer.

And I'm out because I'm just going to continue to read crap like this.
So, why did you bring it up again if it's already been discussed before, and you're not going to change your mind?

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03-28-2017, 01:21 PM
  #46
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This season just shows that when healthy Bob is a top 3-4 goalies in the league.

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Old
03-28-2017, 01:42 PM
  #47
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This season just shows that when healthy Bob is a top 3-4 goalies in the league.
You mean top 1 goalie?

Only halfway joking. The seasons with Columbus where he's been at least mostly healthy he's won a Vezina, lead a team to the playoffs with a .923 sv%, and about to win another Vezina with Hart-nomination-worthy numbers.

Even with his injuries and our down seasons, he's got the 2nd best save percentage in the league since 2012.

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03-28-2017, 02:23 PM
  #48
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http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/s...-winner-032117

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Old
03-28-2017, 05:16 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
(For the record, my counterpoint remains that such an approach should be consistent - if the rest of that season was legit, then so was Bob's Vezina. If Bob's Vezina is not legit due to the short season, then neither is MSL's Art Ross, Huberdeau's Calder, Ovechkin's Hart, Toews' Selkie, Subban's Norris, or Chicago's Stanley Cup (and thus Saad's first Cup ring). Can't pick and choose.)
I see your point, even if I dismiss it. I'll respond because I haven't addressed these points specifically in the past.

I will say that since the 95/96 season the lowest win total was 30 (outside of Bob) by Hasek and he had a 30-18-14 mark. I wonder how many goaltenders during that time had similar stats to Bob for 38 games but the other 34 (48 played by the team, 82 total) games took them out of consideration. Just a quick glance and it looks like low number of games played was over 55.

Having the hardware doesn't mean it's the same equivalency as others who won the award during the last 20+ years (especially when you are using it as ammunition in contract talks). But hey, maybe the NHL will award a goaltender the Vezina for a player that played in 38 games during an entire 82 game season. Maybe they did sometime in the past that I didn't noticed at first glance.

And no, Chicago's Cup win was not the same as a team that played an entire 82 game schedule. You deal with different wear and tear, different injuries, etc. Winning a half marathon isn't anything like winning a full one.

I gave Bob his props in the thread, I gave my input. I really hope that he can stay consistent and healthy during the rest of his time here. But I will always view that Vezina as tarnished. If he wins it this season, it will be well deserved and I'll be thrilled for him.

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Old
03-29-2017, 12:16 AM
  #50
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Anecdotal evidence suggests that Bob has the heaviest workload out of all of the top candidates. So I ran the #s. People probably want something more conclusive but even 1 shot average more a game over approx. 60 games is a good indicator of the difference in the strength of a teams defensive support. In addition, the higher the shot number, the higher the quality of shots is a safe assumption to make.

Shots/60 minutes

Bob 30.25
Dubi 29.30
Price 29.21
Holtby 27.50

In addition, the Metorpolitan division has highest goals for by a wide margin, further evidence to stronger offensive threats faced on the nightly, on average.

Just some food for thought, his GAA and SVP are obvious and impressive, but when you look deeper those stats are amplified.


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