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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Flames will move without a new Arena

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Old
04-01-2017, 10:02 AM
  #26
cbcwpg
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Yeah....sure... go ahead.... Move where?

Right now there are 2 teams on the potential move list, Calgary would make 3. They all going to move to Quebec City? Because there is no where else.

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04-01-2017, 10:07 AM
  #27
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Someone mention this is all fake news. I guess until we get an official statement it's a rumor

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04-01-2017, 10:09 AM
  #28
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Back to Atlanta

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04-01-2017, 10:11 AM
  #29
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Interesting how a Canadian city handles this. I get the feeling a bigger percentage of American cities have been aaying no lately to the scam.

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04-01-2017, 10:14 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Yeah....sure... go ahead.... Move where?

Right now there are 2 teams on the potential move list, Calgary would make 3. They all going to move to Quebec City? Because there is no where else.
And even that, it only makes sense if they sell the Flames to Quebecor.

If even if they to pull that trigger, what will that do to all of the other properties? Stamps, Roughnecks and Hitmen. They'll be a massive season ticket revolt and sponsors lost with the rest of them.

I didn't get a chance to listen to the interview, but it sounds like King's response from Nenshi's 'it's dead' comment the other day.

With the team and city in the midst of looking at the Plan B, which the Flames are open to and plus the 2026 games still being looked at, it would be nice if both Nenshi and Bettman zip it and let this thing stay behind the scenes where it belongs until there is a real update to present.

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04-01-2017, 10:20 AM
  #31
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As a Calgary tax payer **** them! Why should tax money be used on this to make others rich

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04-01-2017, 10:21 AM
  #32
Melrose Munch
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To where?

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04-01-2017, 10:26 AM
  #33
Mike Jones
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As a Calgary tax payer **** them! Why should tax money be used on this to make others rich
This is my attitude exactly. If the rich whiney billionaires want a new rink they can build it themselves. I've said as much in letters to both my local city councilor and the mayor's office.

If they want to turn their back on an extremely lucrative market then they should simply go. There must be an American desert jonesan for an NHL team - they can go there.

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04-01-2017, 10:27 AM
  #34
Mike Jones
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To where?
Exactly. The City of Calgary (Council, staff, citizens, everybody) should call their bluff and hold the door open.

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04-01-2017, 10:30 AM
  #35
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Taking the Katz approach to negotiations? Only, he's doing it in the middle of an oil price crash that's making debt pile up all over the place in gov't.

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04-01-2017, 10:35 AM
  #36
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It puts Bettman in an interesting situation.

His job here is to back the owner and push for a new building, including making threats like these.

But if the city calls his bluff, it would be beyond absurd for Bettman to back the owner in relocating the team. This isn't some toxic situation where the team can't survive if it stays. The whole idea of the Flames relocating is absurd, as they clearly are not a distressed franchise to begin with.

Could be interesting times ahead for Gary if push comes to shove.

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04-01-2017, 10:37 AM
  #37
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I actually really like how the Calgary people and government are standing up to the Flames and the NHL here. These major league sports organizations need to be told "no" when it comes to tax payer dollars subsidizing a new arena.

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04-01-2017, 10:48 AM
  #38
Nullus Reverentia
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It's obviously an empty threat. The NHL won't let them move.

Also, arenas are public goods even if it's not an economically profitable venture for the city. I'm not a big fan of using the economics argument as a sweeping reason for no public funding for sports team. I understand if a city/state doesn't want to do it, but the taxpayer argument is garbage. Your taxes go to lots of things you won't like. Canada gives $4.3 billion in ODA, and there's a whole argument that ODA is useless, but no country is going to stop giving it. I don't really care about building a stadium, as long as the government partially controls revenue.

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04-01-2017, 10:55 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Nullus Reverentia View Post
It's obviously an empty threat. The NHL won't let them move.

Also, arenas are public goods even if it's not an economically profitable venture for the city. I'm not a big fan of using the economics argument as a sweeping reason for no public funding for sports team. I understand if a city/state doesn't want to do it, but the taxpayer argument is garbage. Your taxes go to lots of things you won't like. Canada gives $4.3 billion in ODA, and there's a whole argument that ODA is useless, but no country is going to stop giving it. I don't really care about building a stadium, as long as the government partially controls revenue.
And this needs to stop, just because Canada is bleeding money to other countries, to CBC etc off the backs of tax payers, whose taxes just keep going up, doesn't mean it's ok to continue this practice.

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04-01-2017, 11:04 AM
  #40
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Its a shame that something that costs so much is never built to last
A building life is about 30 to 35 years, unless corners were cut. See the Metrodome in Minneapolis for an example. It opened in April 1982 and was demolished in January 2014. It was built on the cheap, had problems and surprised me by lasting that long in a relatively harsh climate.

You can renovate or tear it down depending on the design and costs for each.

On the other hand, you have the Colosseum in Rome. It took 8 years to build, opening in 80 AD. It is crumbling, but much of it still stands. It seated 50,000.

Didn't the current arena in Calgary get built for the Olympics in 1988? I heard that Calgary is trying to get the 2026 games, which should be announced in about 2 years. Can't they wait a few more seasons for the new arena, one way or another?

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04-01-2017, 11:15 AM
  #41
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Typical stuff. Empty threats, but eventually the city will give money, happens everytime.
King is being shrewd. I suspect this is a plan to find an alternative candidate to run against Neshi in the fall.

It's tough timing with the economy in the sewer in Calgary. This is the Flames ever threatened to move so explicitly.

fwiw there are cities that could do it. KC has a rink. Seattle is a possibility. They would both be Western conference.

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04-01-2017, 11:16 AM
  #42
adsfan
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This is my attitude exactly. If the rich whiney billionaires want a new rink they can build it themselves. I've said as much in letters to both my local city councilor and the mayor's office.

If they want to turn their back on an extremely lucrative market then they should simply go. There must be an American desert jonesan for an NHL team - they can go there.
In Milwaukee, the 3 billionaires that own the Bucks put up half of the cost for the new arena. But they are getting a sweetheart deal on parking lots, bars and restaurants near the arena site. It is kind of disgusting to me.

The Brewers paid $90 million out of $400 M for Miller Park, but they were nearly broke at the time. Miller Brewing is paying $2 M a year for 20 years of naming rights. That was $42 M of the $90 M. I had a stadium bond that was good for 13 years. I sold it for a profit to help pay for college for my kids. It was double tax free. Miller Park still isn't paid off after 16 years. It will be a few more years.

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Old
04-01-2017, 11:18 AM
  #43
powerstuck
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Quebec City has a new building...this could get interesting...
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Maybe Atlanta can get it's team back.
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Originally Posted by USAUSA1 View Post
Quebec Flames , has a nice ring to it.
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Back to Atlanta
You guys already forgot how much the league doesn't like the current conference balance and needs to fix it right ?

I mean why would Flames move to Qc or Altlanta is Coyotes cannot move to Qc or Atlanta.

It's Seattle or bust.

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04-01-2017, 11:20 AM
  #44
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King is being shrewd. I suspect this is a plan to find an alternative candidate to run against Neshi in the fall.

It's tough timing with the economy in the sewer in Calgary. This is the Flames ever threatened to move so explicitly.

fwiw there are cities that could do it. KC has a rink. Seattle is a possibility. They would both be Western conference.
The Flames owner is greedy ****. There is no way he's going to spend hundreds of million of dollars to move to a market that might not make money, from a market that is profitable.

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04-01-2017, 11:20 AM
  #45
Nullus Reverentia
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And this needs to stop, just because Canada is bleeding money to other countries, to CBC etc off the backs of tax payers, whose taxes just keep going up, doesn't mean it's ok to continue this practice.
But it's not going to stop and there is nothing you can do to make them. Even Trump isn't cancelling foreign aid (he isn't cancelling or diminishing contributions to PEPFAR or the Global Fund for example) despite the rhetoric. At least funding stadium's gives you a tangible asset. If you team moves, the whole city has an awful feeling for years after. It's a happiness and pride factor, something which you can't quantify in monetary numbers.

I think everyone would like lower taxes, but if they don't fund the stadium they'll fund something else people won't like. I say my as well fund the stadium.

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Old
04-01-2017, 11:21 AM
  #46
iFan
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King is being shrewd. I suspect this is a plan to find an alternative candidate to run against Neshi in the fall.

It's tough timing with the economy in the sewer in Calgary. This is the Flames ever threatened to move so explicitly.

fwiw there are cities that could do it. KC has a rink. Seattle is a possibility. They would both be Western conference.
The NHL won't let a huge market like Calgary go... not a chance, it's a horrible business move for the NHL. The NHL won't want to lose all the money, exposure, support, fans, the battle of Alberta marketing, how does moving the Flames out of Calgary benefit the league?

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04-01-2017, 11:21 AM
  #47
End on a Hinote
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Originally Posted by JETZZZ View Post
Its a shame that something that costs so much is never built to last
That's not so much the case with more recent arenas. Back then arenas were pretty much just slabs of concrete with seats that were intended for you to come in, watch the game, then go home. Where as today they are built to be more like actual establishments. Rexall Place cost $17 million to build. At $83 million in 2017 dollars that's still incredibly cheap.

Reunion Arena in Dallas was demolished after only 29 years. That would be like, in only 6 years time the Canucks being told they need a new arena.

Today's arenas hold much more longevity than the ones from 40 years ago.

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Old
04-01-2017, 11:25 AM
  #48
iFan
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But it's not going to stop and there is nothing you can do to make them. Even Trump isn't cancelling foreign aid (he isn't cancelling or diminishing contributions to PEPFAR or the Global Fund for example) despite the rhetoric. At least funding stadium's gives you a tangible asset. If you team moves, the whole city has an awful feeling for years after. It's a happiness and pride factor, something which you can't quantify in monetary numbers.

I think everyone would like lower taxes, but if they don't fund the stadium they'll fund something else people won't like. I say my as well fund the stadium.
How does moving the Flames out of Calgary benefit the league?

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04-01-2017, 11:31 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Nullus Reverentia View Post
It's obviously an empty threat. The NHL won't let them move.
The NHL is a copycat league, and if the NFL could have three teams move in just over a year, the NHL will happily let the Flames move to Seattle, Portland, Houston, or Atlanta to prove their gun is loaded too.

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Old
04-01-2017, 11:33 AM
  #50
Warden of the North
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This is going to become a bigger issue moving forward with a lot of cities. You can only squeeze the taxpayer so much and lot of them are saying "no thanks" to arenas.

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