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Marc Bergevin - The Crystal Ball Edition

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Old
04-09-2017, 06:18 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
It's funny that in no way has it been proven that regular season success correlates into playoff success.

Also you take numbers with different methods of calculations and you equate their values.

since MB took over if the NHL awarded 2 points of OT win, 0 points for OT loss, and 1 point if you go to shootouts.

Habs 2013: 63 pts, would have been 57 pts
Habs 13-14: 100 pts, would have been 89 pts
Habs 14-15: 110 pts, would have been 98 pts
Habs 15-16: 82 pts, would have been 74 pts
Habs 16-17: 103 pts, would have been 93 pts

So since 93, the Habs have 0 100 point seasons the way the 100 point season was calculated in 93

And before he took over the Habs went to the ECF, lost to the Stanley Cup champions and one year they went belly up.

Looks to me like MB inherited quite a strong team, but hasn't actually went any further than his predecessor.
That wouldn't have occurred to me. Very good post.

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Old
04-09-2017, 06:38 PM
  #102
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I'm looking forward to the playoffs and I feel as good about this roster that I have in a long time about a Habs team.

I like pretty much all of his additions/acquisitions: Weber, Radulov, Danault, Shaw, Byron, Lehkonen (where the line a scout begins and a GM ends I don't know but I still like the drafting under MB. Still too early to tell. Regardless, I'll call Arti an MB acquisition). Benn as well. We'll see about the deadline adds.
And maybe best of all: Julien.

Most of those names were had for little to nothing.

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Old
04-09-2017, 07:03 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
It's funny that in no way has it been proven that regular season success correlates into playoff success.

Also you take numbers with different methods of calculations and you equate their values.

since MB took over if the NHL awarded 2 points of OT win, 0 points for OT loss, and 1 point if you go to shootouts.

Habs 2013: 63 pts, would have been 57 pts
Habs 13-14: 100 pts, would have been 89 pts
Habs 14-15: 110 pts, would have been 98 pts
Habs 15-16: 82 pts, would have been 74 pts
Habs 16-17: 103 pts, would have been 93 pts

So since 93, the Habs have 0 100 point seasons the way the 100 point season was calculated in 93

And before he took over the Habs went to the ECF, lost to the Stanley Cup champions and one year they went belly up.

Looks to me like MB inherited quite a strong team, but hasn't actually went any further than his predecessor.
I keep saying this. At one time getting 85 points and you made the playoffs. Now because of the stupid loser point and SO loser point numbers for teams are so inflated.

I would be happy with just a tie the way it use to be. Sometimes
there are no winners. Hell go to a percentage thing like baseball and be done with it.

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04-09-2017, 07:06 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
How about something simpler. Shootout was introduced in 05-06 season. So from 05-06 till 10-11 7 seasons, habs had 1 100 point season in 07/08 which was 104 points.

Since MB took over 11-12 the habs have had 4 100 point seasons their best being 110 points.

Much simpler way to look at it then making up different point standards that don't or never existed.

And before MB took over the habs missed the playoffs finishing 28th, bounced from 1st round finishing 14th, ECF as a 8th place team that was 19th in the league, year before they finished 14th in the league. they had one good year in 07/08 where they finished 3rd and it has been downhill since then till MB took over.
So you want to equate the 3v3 shootout the same as 4v4. That is also disingenuous. We know a lot of team played lockdown hockey 4v4 because they had guys for shootout only skills.

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04-09-2017, 07:29 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
So you want to equate the 3v3 shootout the same as 4v4. That is also disingenuous. We know a lot of team played lockdown hockey 4v4 because they had guys for shootout only skills.
So 3v3 against 4v4 is the reason why under MB habs have 4 100 point seasons, and in the 7 previous years they have 1? MB's 5 years team has finished 4th/9th/2nd/21st/7th. The 5 years before they finished 28th/14th/19th/14th/3rd. For 3 seasons there was 4v4 since 3v3 started in 2015, and the team still got 3 100 point seasons.

Points wise or standings wise the team has gotten better. You guys will really nit pick everything on MB. 4 100 point season, 2 previous regimes only had 1.

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04-09-2017, 07:43 PM
  #106
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I also think that we'll see more impactful trades as MB slowly re-stocks the cupboards.

We got a lot 5 2nds in the next two drafts. Guys like Danault and Byron were had for next to nothing. I think the bargain bin stuff is a good way to slowly gain more assets without giving stuff up. We have a really strong top 9 (especally if we can keep Radulov going forward). If guys like McCarron, Scherbak, DLR can develop then we have more options down the road. Those guys just aren't worth that much now.

I think it's smart to hold on to them. It's a bit of a gamble if they bust.

I don't know why people don't think MB has a vision. You might not agree with it but he's been pretty true to it since Day 1.

The guy inherited a decent core but he didn't have a surplus of assets. Most trades would end up leaving holes. Slowly but surely we have more pieces that he can make deals with. THAT'S a big reason why he went 'dumpster diving'. It was the surest way to add without having to subtract when you inherit a playoff bubble team.

Now I''m not saying the cupboards are bursting but I still think we have a lot more tradeable assets than we did before.

I'm not saying I really want to trade many of these guys but say we trade a Gallagher, we don't necessarily have a huge hole that we likely couldn't fill with the emergence of Lehkonen or Byron or Shaw. A couple years ago we wouldn't even dream of it (except for a few mind you). I just think we're slowly doing it the right way for short term and long term. I actually like that he seemingly doesn't operate like we have a 2 year window. I don't think it's true and I don't think he does either.

I don't think MB would necessarily stop dumpster diving (I personally hope he never does) but I think it was a pretty vital part of Phase I.

We don't have to forget the past but we don't have to dwell on it so morosely. Julien's the coach now and so far he seems like a HUGE improvement. Bit of dumb luck but I still admire MB (or Serge Savard or Guy Lafleur or whoever did it) for pulling the trigger.

We can split hairs forever but the bottom line is at this moment in time I really like the team he's assembled. It's one of the better rosters we've had in a long time. Not world beating and has flaws but it's rock solid top to bottom. Lot of proven playoff guys. Bring on the Rags!!!

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04-09-2017, 07:50 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
How about something simpler. Shootout was introduced in 05-06 season. So from 05-06 till 10-11 7 seasons, habs had 1 100 point season in 07/08 which was 104 points.

Since MB took over 11-12 the habs have had 4 100 point seasons their best being 110 points.

Much simpler way to look at it then making up different point standards that don't or never existed.

And before MB took over the habs missed the playoffs finishing 28th, bounced from 1st round finishing 14th, ECF as a 8th place team that was 19th in the league, year before they finished 14th in the league. they had one good year in 07/08 where they finished 3rd and it has been downhill since then till MB took over.
Why do you keep equating regular season success with playoff success?

How can you say that ECF as an 8th place team, like it really matters? That year in 09-10, when the Olympic break happened, they were sitting in 10th in the EC. They had to play there way in.

The year they lost to the Bruins, in OT of game 7... Act like that isn't huge.

In 11-12 the Habs had a rough year. They were again in 10th in the EC when they fired JM and went in a nose dive, losing 6 of the next 7 games to end the year (2011).

From 11-12 to game 1 of 2013, MB brought in the following:

Alex Galchenyuk - Rookie
Brendan Gallgher - Rookie
Colby Armstrong - 4th liner (2g, 3a)
Francis Bouillon - Bottom Pairing
Brandon Prust - 3rd liner (5g, 9a)

During the season trades:
Cole out - Ryder in

In the Habs top6, MB did one change, Cole out, Ryder in.
On D, only Bouillon showed up, biggest changed on D from 2011-2012 to 2013 - HEALTHY MARKOV

It's incomprehensible that you actually believe that MB did anything with the roster he inherited in 2012 and turned a 28th overall team and made it a playoff team in 2013.

The Habs of 2011-2012 were not the norm, they were the exception to a strong team growing.

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Old
04-09-2017, 07:52 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
I also think that we'll see more impactful trades as MB slowly re-stocks the cupboards.

We got a lot 5 2nds in the next two drafts. Guys like Danault and Byron were had for next to nothing. I think the bargain bin stuff is a good way to slowly gain more assets without giving stuff up. We have a really strong top 9 (especally if we can keep Radulov going forward). If guys like McCarron, Scherbak, DLR can develop then we have more options down the road. Those guys just aren't worth that much now.

I think it's smart to hold on to them. It's a bit of a gamble if they bust.

I don't know why people don't think MB has a vision. You might not agree with it but he's been pretty true to it since Day 1.

The guy inherited a decent core but he didn't have a surplus of assets. Most trades would end up leaving holes. Slowly but surely we have more pieces that he can make deals with. THAT'S a big reason why he went 'dumpster diving'. It was the surest way to add without having to subtract when you inherit a playoff bubble team.

Now I''m not saying the cupboards are bursting but I still think we have a lot more tradeable assets than we did before.

I'm not saying I really want to trade many of these guys but say we trade a Gallagher, we don't necessarily have a huge hole that we likely couldn't fill with the emergence of Lehkonen or Byron or Shaw. A couple years ago we wouldn't even dream of it (except for a few mind you). I just think we're slowly doing it the right way for short term and long term. I actually like that he seemingly doesn't operate like we have a 2 year window. I don't think it's true and I don't think he does either.

I don't think MB would necessarily stop dumpster diving (I personally hope he never does) but I think it was a pretty vital part of Phase I.

We don't have to forget the past but we don't have to dwell on it so morosely. Julien's the coach now and so far he seems like a HUGE improvement. Bit of dumb luck but I still admire MB (or Serge Savard or Guy Lafleur or whoever did it) for pulling the trigger.

We can split hairs forever but the bottom line is at this moment in time I really like the team he's assembled. It's one of the better rosters we've had in a long time. Not world beating and has flaws but it's rock solid top to bottom. Lot of proven playoff guys. Bring on the Rags!!!
Those guys aren't developing.

Yanni Gourde looks better than all three of them. Let that sink in.

Lefebvre is a death sentence for our prospects.

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Old
04-09-2017, 07:55 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
I also think that we'll see more impactful trades as MB slowly re-stocks the cupboards.

We got a lot 5 2nds in the next two drafts. Guys like Danault and Byron were had for next to nothing. I think the bargain bin stuff is a good way to slowly gain more assets without giving stuff up. We have a really strong top 9 (especally if we can keep Radulov going forward). If guys like McCarron, Scherbak, DLR can develop then we have more options down the road. Those guys just aren't worth that much now.

I think it's smart to hold on to them. It's a bit of a gamble if they bust.

I don't know why people don't think MB has a vision. You might not agree with it but he's been pretty true to it since Day 1.

The guy inherited a decent core but he didn't have a surplus of assets. Most trades would end up leaving holes. Slowly but surely we have more pieces that he can make deals with. THAT'S a big reason why he went 'dumpster diving'. It was the surest way to add without having to subtract when you inherit a playoff bubble team.

Now I''m not saying the cupboards are bursting but I still think we have a lot more tradeable assets than we did before.

I'm not saying I really want to trade many of these guys but say we trade a Gallagher, we don't necessarily have a huge hole that we likely couldn't fill with the emergence of Lehkonen or Byron or Shaw. A couple years ago we wouldn't even dream of it (except for a few mind you). I just think we're slowly doing it the right way for short term and long term. I actually like that he seemingly doesn't operate like we have a 2 year window. I don't think it's true and I don't think he does either.

I don't think MB would necessarily stop dumpster diving (I personally hope he never does) but I think it was a pretty vital part of Phase I.

We don't have to forget the past but we don't have to dwell on it so morosely. Julien's the coach now and so far he seems like a HUGE improvement. Bit of dumb luck but I still admire MB (or Serge Savard or Guy Lafleur or whoever did it) for pulling the trigger.

We can split hairs forever but the bottom line is at this moment in time I really like the team he's assembled. It's one of the better rosters we've had in a long time. Not world beating and has flaws but it's rock solid top to bottom. Lot of proven playoff guys. Bring on the Rags!!!
MB pulled the trigger. I don't think Savard, let alone Lafleur, did anything. Savard criticized MB for his poor asset management and the late firing of his coach. I still laugh at the way Serge said it. Hehehehe.

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Old
04-09-2017, 07:57 PM
  #110
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So 3v3 against 4v4 is the reason why under MB habs have 4 100 point seasons, and in the 7 previous years they have 1? MB's 5 years team has finished 4th/9th/2nd/21st/7th. The 5 years before they finished 28th/14th/19th/14th/3rd. For 3 seasons there was 4v4 since 3v3 started in 2015, and the team still got 3 100 point seasons.

Points wise or standings wise the team has gotten better. You guys will really nit pick everything on MB. 4 100 point season, 2 previous regimes only had 1.
Not really and you myopic analysis didn't establish that either.

Stuffs don't happen in a vacuum and you totally fail to take into consideration:
-Price entering his prime giving us 60+ games of elite goaltending per season VS Huet/Halak/Rookie Price we had during the previous 7 years who were never able to do that.
-The fall of the former powers in the Northeast (Buffalo, Ottawa, Boston) post-2012 lockout. The Northeast, now Atlantic is a lot less competitive than it used to be.

The 2 factors above contributed a lot more to the rise of the Habs than Bergevin going after scrubs for the 4 first years of his tenure.

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04-09-2017, 08:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OnTheRun View Post
Not really and you myopic analysis didn't establish that either.

Stuffs don't happen in a vacuum and you totally fail to take into consideration:
-Price entering his prime giving us 60+ games of elite goaltending per season VS Huet/Halak/Rookie Price we had during the previous 7 years who were never able to do that.
-The fall of the former powers in the Northeast (Buffalo, Ottawa, Boston) post-2012 lockout. The Northeast, now Atlantic is a lot less competitive than it used to be.

The 2 factors above contributed a lot more to the rise of the Habs than Bergevin going after scrubs for the 4 first ye ouars of his tenure.
You and many others around hère should get à job at the d Cirque du Soleil. So many acrobatics to not give any crédits to Bergevin....

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04-09-2017, 08:09 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
I also think that we'll see more impactful trades as MB slowly re-stocks the cupboards.

We got a lot 5 2nds in the next two drafts. Guys like Danault and Byron were had for next to nothing. I think the bargain bin stuff is a good way to slowly gain more assets without giving stuff up. We have a really strong top 9 (especally if we can keep Radulov going forward). If guys like McCarron, Scherbak, DLR can develop then we have more options down the road. Those guys just aren't worth that much now.

I think it's smart to hold on to them. It's a bit of a gamble if they bust.

I don't know why people don't think MB has a vision. You might not agree with it but he's been pretty true to it since Day 1.
We have the weakest top 9 of all playoff teams along with Ottawa.

I think what you mean is we have a strong middle 6. With guys like Lehkonen, Danault, Byron, Gallagher and Shaw. Which I agree. Problem is more than half of them are playing on the top 2 lines.

Really strong is not a term I'd use to describe a top 9 with Danault and Plekanec as 1 and 2 C.

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Old
04-09-2017, 08:16 PM
  #113
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He didn't do a good job of building our defensive core, did he. We have no one to replace Markov on the left side. Beaulieu has been a failure. We really need top left D that can support Markov. A guy in his prime.

MB needs to get at it next year and we also basically need top centers for the Two top lines. Danault is a third line center and Chucky is not a center. Think about it, we're going into the playoffs with that.

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04-09-2017, 08:16 PM
  #114
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You and many others around hère should get à job at the d Cirque du Soleil. So many acrobatics to not give any crédits to Bergevin....
There is simply no credit to give to a guy who took 5 (FIVE) years just to bring a single player able to contribute a mere 30 points with the Habs. His best move so far was to finally fire the idiot he hired as a coach.

Then he allowed Lefebvre to be awful for the entire duration of his contract and he could very much be re-signed this summer.

The list of "coups" by this guy is extremely short. Most of his tenure can be resumed by moving marginal assets for marginal returns.

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Old
04-09-2017, 08:24 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Why do you keep equating regular season success with playoff success?

How can you say that ECF as an 8th place team, like it really matters? That year in 09-10, when the Olympic break happened, they were sitting in 10th in the EC. They had to play there way in.

The year they lost to the Bruins, in OT of game 7... Act like that isn't huge.

In 11-12 the Habs had a rough year. They were again in 10th in the EC when they fired JM and went in a nose dive, losing 6 of the next 7 games to end the year (2011).

From 11-12 to game 1 of 2013, MB brought in the following:

Alex Galchenyuk - Rookie
Brendan Gallgher - Rookie
Colby Armstrong - 4th liner (2g, 3a)
Francis Bouillon - Bottom Pairing
Brandon Prust - 3rd liner (5g, 9a)

During the season trades:
Cole out - Ryder in

In the Habs top6, MB did one change, Cole out, Ryder in.
On D, only Bouillon showed up, biggest changed on D from 2011-2012 to 2013 - HEALTHY MARKOV

It's incomprehensible that you actually believe that MB did anything with the roster he inherited in 2012 and turned a 28th overall team and made it a playoff team in 2013.

The Habs of 2011-2012 were not the norm, they were the exception to a strong team growing.
Someone posted a report on the main playoff board that showed there IS a correlation between head-to-head regular-season games and playoff success. The team with the winning record in the regular season won the playoff series 65% of the time. Sure, 35% leaves plenty of room for exceptions, but based on what I saw (I'll try to find the info) there is a definite tilt in favour of the team that wins the regular season matchups.

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04-09-2017, 08:31 PM
  #116
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Those guys aren't developing.

Yanni Gourde looks better than all three of them. Let that sink in.

Lefebvre is a death sentence for our prospects.
And Bergevin thinks or says that he's doing a very good. We'll see in the summer if it was another of Bergie's white lies....

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04-09-2017, 08:42 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Why do you keep equating regular season success with playoff success?

How can you say that ECF as an 8th place team, like it really matters? That year in 09-10, when the Olympic break happened, they were sitting in 10th in the EC. They had to play there way in.

The year they lost to the Bruins, in OT of game 7... Act like that isn't huge.

In 11-12 the Habs had a rough year. They were again in 10th in the EC when they fired JM and went in a nose dive, losing 6 of the next 7 games to end the year (2011).

From 11-12 to game 1 of 2013, MB brought in the following:

Alex Galchenyuk - Rookie
Brendan Gallgher - Rookie
Colby Armstrong - 4th liner (2g, 3a)
Francis Bouillon - Bottom Pairing
Brandon Prust - 3rd liner (5g, 9a)

During the season trades:
Cole out - Ryder in

In the Habs top6, MB did one change, Cole out, Ryder in.
On D, only Bouillon showed up, biggest changed on D from 2011-2012 to 2013 - HEALTHY MARKOV

It's incomprehensible that you actually believe that MB did anything with the roster he inherited in 2012 and turned a 28th overall team and made it a playoff team in 2013.

The Habs of 2011-2012 were not the norm, they were the exception to a strong team growing.
I am not talking playoffs, but even by that standard under MB there its better. All I did was say under MB we had 4 100 point seasons, and the 7 seasons before the team had 1.

Its you guys that have to over analyze everything and tear everything apart to rag on MB. Yet some posters tell me people dont "hate" MB there just upset he didn't improve the offense.

List all the different excuses and tear downs and why 4 100 point Regular seasons means nothing just shows the lengths posters will go to argue against MB and the team they cheer for.

If 100 point seasons were nothing to sneeze at and so easy you wouldn't have to come up with a myrid of excuses why the previous regime only did one quarter of what happend under MB.

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04-09-2017, 08:46 PM
  #118
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We have the weakest top 9 of all playoff teams along with Ottawa.

I think what you mean is we have a strong middle 6. With guys like Lehkonen, Danault, Byron, Gallagher and Shaw. Which I agree. Problem is more than half of them are playing on the top 2 lines.

Really strong is not a term I'd use to describe a top 9 with Danault and Plekanec as 1 and 2 C.
Its strong on the wings and versatile, but yes weak down the middle. Basically the worst case scenario happend which is Pleks fell off a cliff and AG got injured and lost his PPG/30 goal pace.

But the wings are still strong with Max/Radu. Galley/Lek/Byron. And 1 of Shaw or AG depending on who plays C. There also aren't all the same, you have some speedsters, shooters, grinding type.

I think we can match up on the wings with almost all teams, but down the middle is the weakness. Let's hope CJ is as smart as advertised and he is able to use Price our D and our Wing strength to overcome the teams deficit at C.

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04-09-2017, 09:14 PM
  #119
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Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov
Byron-Plekanec-Gallagher

You'd be hard pressed to find a playoff team with a weaker top 6.


Hoffman-Turris-Stone
Smith-Brassard-Ryan

...is probably even better and the Sens are garbage.


Last edited by G0bias: 04-09-2017 at 09:19 PM.
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04-09-2017, 09:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by G0bias View Post
Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov
Byron-Plekanec-Gallagher

You'd be hard pressed to find a playoff team with a weaker top 6.


Hoffman-Turris-Stone
Smith-Brassard-Ryan

...is probably even better and the Sens are garbage.
What about compared to the Rangers?

I look at them down the middle Stepan/Hayes/Zibanejad.

I don't know if there top 6 is weaker but its not that much superior to the habs. Krieder/Miller/Zuc/Garbner/Nash/Veesey vs Lek/Byron/AG/Max/Radu/Galley. I think its pretty close.

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04-09-2017, 09:36 PM
  #121
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Someone posted a report on the main playoff board that showed there IS a correlation between head-to-head regular-season games and playoff success. The team with the winning record in the regular season won the playoff series 65% of the time. Sure, 35% leaves plenty of room for exceptions, but based on what I saw (I'll try to find the info) there is a definite tilt in favour of the team that wins the regular season matchups.
can you post a link please? would love to see that

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04-09-2017, 09:54 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by PaulD View Post
Oh i thought when you said Maxwell "simply wasn't good enough" you were blaming him.

Because it was pretty obvious he was not gonna be an NHLer........except yo you.

He was not good enough to live up to your expectations. As Eler was not with others. Why these two did not live up to other peoples expectations is open to opinion.

Eler went in the first round, was traded for a hot goalie, had size, showed signs of being great (4 goal game) played on the EGG line that looked good for a space. Good defense. Currently playing 3rd line center for the Stanley Cup favorites. I can at least see where the high expectations come from.

Maxwell on the other hand? He just plain stunk.
I believe you missed the point.

I thought Yannick Weber would be an NHLer. I was one of those who believed in Price over Halak, etc...

You win some, you lose some. I thought a 2nd round pick would be an NHLer. I was wrong.

Regarding Eller: There was no doubt he was an NHLer. He was in a different tier than a Maxwell or whoever. The question was if he was a top 6 forward.

Guys like Bulis scored 4 goals. Fabia Brunstrom scored a hattrick in his first few games no? Chris Kelly scored 4 points from 4th line. There's many examples of players doing well but still not being top 6 players in the end.

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04-09-2017, 10:01 PM
  #123
Hugo Sham
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Originally Posted by Hugo Sham View Post
can you post a link please? would love to see that
found it. it was the travis yost post:

:"Travis Yost did a study a couple of weeks ago.

He found that teams who outscored a given opponent during the regular season went on to beat that same opponent in the playoffs about 65 per cent of the time"

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04-09-2017, 10:11 PM
  #124
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's not an argument. It's just an anecdote. You can point out to young guys not doing as well, changing coaches and doing better too. Sometimes even under good coaches. Seguin wasn't reaching his potention under Julien, he went to Dallas and blossomed. Neely with the Nucks, Chara with the Isles. I'm sure you can name some too.
So ya, some prospects just end up not being as good as projected. Others disappoint, change, and do much better. Some are projected as nothing, and end up as stars. Some disappoint, change teams, and still disappoint.
Seguin led the bruins in goals, GWGs, shots, points and 2nd in +- in his second NHL season.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So please, tell me, why wouldn't it be possible for a player to have been stuck with a bad coach too long for him to then reach his potential after a change? Would you say that is impossible?

I agree, it's very possible Eller is simply who he became, but we also spent a lot of his developmental years using him as a checking center. It's not some surprise that he's become mostly a checking line center...
You know my issue with this entire argument is pretty simple. They played him what he was, a checking line center. He became a checking line center.

It's like playing Beaulieu as a top pairing d-man to me. It's nice if you think he belonged there but he never did and was played accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's the same thing with Galchenyuk that I was arguing with you about for years. If you use Galchenyuk as a winger through his first few years here, then that's what he will become. You just refused to accept that and believed he would magically develop into a center if we moved him there 4-5 years into his career. Yes, you also said you didn't care, whether he's a winger or center, but everyone knew we needed a center, which is a more important and difficult position to fill, so put him there ASAP.
Nope. Instead we toyed around with DD-Plek, and today we are left with a 40pt checking center as the #1 guy and Galch is used as a depth winger. Great planning strategy. Actually, brilliant! Oh right, it has nothing to do with development of course. It's just who Galch is!
Come on man. Development matters. Actually, it is key.
When did I say I didn't care? When did I say he would magically develop as a center?

My argument is pretty simple. You can learn how to play in the NHL without playing C. You can learn things from the wing. You can learn systems, coverage, gap control, etc... from the wing. There would be a transition from wing to C for sure. You don't just learn C from playing wing. You can learn aspects of C by playing wing though.

I also never said development isn't key. I've always said blaming one side for development is a pointless exercise.

Galchenyuk was behind from the start. Lost a season in junior then returned as a winger. Unlike the seguin example you brought up Galchenyuk didn't lead the habs in anything, let alone in his second year. He only produces if you force feed him good players and opportunities.

Do I want him as a C? Yup. I've said so endless times. Do I think he could've been developed better? Sure, why not. Do I think he has potential? Yes. Do I think he can make it as a center? Yes. Do I think he's absolved of any responsibility for where he is today? No.

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04-09-2017, 10:17 PM
  #125
G0bias
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
What about compared to the Rangers?

I look at them down the middle Stepan/Hayes/Zibanejad.

I don't know if there top 6 is weaker but its not that much superior to the habs. Krieder/Miller/Zuc/Garbner/Nash/Veesey vs Lek/Byron/AG/Max/Radu/Galley. I think its pretty close.
They're the 4th highest scoring team in the league... It's not.
They have 5 50pts+ forwards to our 2. Its pretty clear and agreed upon our top 6 doesn't compare.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Miller-Zibanejad-Zuccarello

Just saying some here might have to open their eyes and re-think their evaluation of MB's work and the offence he assembled. Specifically the top 6, our most glaring weakness since 2012.


Last edited by G0bias: 04-09-2017 at 10:34 PM.
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