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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix CXXVI: Clowns to the left of me... jokers to the right...

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Old
04-09-2017, 10:27 AM
  #76
Killion
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
And if so then the arena funding bill will be 'officially' dead just like with their 3 -1 loss to Minny makes their season 'officaly' dead too.

Last NHL game in Arizona played this season. Perhaps unlikely but will this be the last one ever?
No, I'm pretty sure their in there for at least another season. While its possible they could pull a late Relo all signs seem to me at least to negate that possibility. The only precedent we really have to work from was Atlanta and as that was while not entirely dissimilar to this one..... leaking out that ASG was willing to house the Thrashers for another season while continuing to try & find (disingenuously at that) a local buyer provided the NHL would cover its losses... the League & Bettman seem to have both hands on the wheel in this situation, cant really exit having already proclaimed the team has time to try & secure a new facility, moving target of 12-24-36 months.

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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
Bettman's claim of new money for the state in this arena deal is either a case of lying or ignorance. The legislative analyst for the Arizona legislature in an official report said that the bill would result in no net income for the state - in fact, in the last paragraph on page 1 of this document, he wrote that it could lose money.

https://apps.azleg.gov/BillStatus/GetDocumentPdf/448449

Axiom would know this and wouldn't have let Worsley and IA submit a bill where the state makes new tax money, as Bettman claims, because if a bill creates net revenue to the state, it kicks in a requirement that the bill pass with 2/3rd majorities, and we know this so-called "transportation" bill might not even have the support of 1/3 of the Senate and House.

Does Bettman know this, and is just lying? I don't know. But at a minimum, he was obviously popping off his mouth about something he knows nothing about. So since we assume at least some people with the NHL read this, will they get the word to Bettman and he issues a correction to the taxpayers of Arizona who he is duping with his claim that the arena will provide new money for education and other important needs of the state?

Get out the popcorn, because it'll be a long wait before Bettman would ever correct one of his lies/exaggerations.
Wasnt said under-oath and as obviously no one in the political arena down there has called him out on it.... not one reporter be it local or national/international... I'd say the odds of his getting tangled up in his web of deceit pretty slim huh? This guy's an expert at evasion. If "challenged" like anything else (concussion issue, lockouts, you name it) simply deflect, turn the tables on his interrogators.

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In a way, the fact he never left to a contender, makes his accomplishments and loyalty an even bigger accomplishment.
... unfortunately history not quite so kind to such players when looking back on their careers 10-20-40-100yrs into the future. People do Count Cup's, Smythe's, Richard's, points, penalties etc etc etc.... A guy like Doan will be remembered in the same class or 'B List' grouping of non-Cup winning players with the likes of Dale Hunter, another hard-nosed player, very similar in many respects, below the non-Cup winning 'A Listers' of a Bill Gadsby, Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perrault, Norm Ullman, Darryl Sittler, Brad Park, Jean Ratelle, Peter Stastny, Adam Oates, Pavel Bure', Phil Housley & others. What is remarkable about Doan is that he managed to play his entire career with one franchise, what he's been put through (though hard to sympathize given his career earnings) and that he's still playing at all, wasnt felled by injuries.


Last edited by Killion: 04-09-2017 at 10:40 AM.
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Old
04-09-2017, 11:32 AM
  #77
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... unfortunately history not quite so kind to such players when looking back on their careers 10-20-40-100yrs into the future. People do Count Cup's, Smythe's, Richard's, points, penalties etc etc etc.... A guy like Doan will be remembered in the same class or 'B List' grouping of non-Cup winning players with the likes of Dale Hunter, another hard-nosed player, very similar in many respects, below the non-Cup winning 'A Listers' of a Bill Gadsby, Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perrault, Norm Ullman, Darryl Sittler, Brad Park, Jean Ratelle, Peter Stastny, Adam Oates, Pavel Bure', Phil Housley & others. What is remarkable about Doan is that he managed to play his entire career with one franchise, what he's been put through (though hard to sympathize given his career earnings) and that he's still playing at all, wasnt felled by injuries.
... and Doan will be quite all right with that.

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04-09-2017, 11:53 AM
  #78
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... and Doan will be quite all right with that.
... absolutely.... in very good company.... whats next for him?.... Special Asst to Barroway?... Team Ambassador?.... Or more prudently just take some time off, let the dust settle with the club?

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04-09-2017, 11:59 AM
  #79
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What is the latest?

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04-09-2017, 12:09 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... absolutely.... in very good company.... whats next for him?.... Special Asst to Barroway?... Team Ambassador?.... Or more prudently just take some time off, let the dust settle with the club?
I think it was posted here in the last year or so, as people were wondering if Doan would be dealt at a trade deadline, that he still has kids in school in the Phoenix area, and that it was important to him not to pull the kids up and move them from their schools. And the family likes the area. So if the 'Yotes have something for him, that'd be a good move. Have to think, though, that he won't take a job elsewhere right away, unless it's something he can fly in and out to, and keep his residence in AZ. Maybe after the kids are grown, he'd be interested in coaching/management somewhere else. Gotta respect that.

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04-09-2017, 12:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CokenoPepsi View Post
What is the latest?
More of this: Apparently for another year, while they continue looking for a deal for a new rink. And even if Barroway isn't as big a believer in getting a new arena as LeBlanc was, his potential buyout in June probably makes it too late to have any relocation this year.

Might see a bit of an interesting rivalry develop, even if only for a year or two while the 'Yotes remain in AZ, between a young, developing Coyotes team, and the new kid on the block, Vegas, which will have an interesting mix of veterans let go by others in a generous draft, and some kids pushed to play a little sooner than what's ideal. Could be some fun hockey games, peppered with the mistakes young teams will make, but also the kind of real spirited games young talent can play. That's got to be good for both fan bases that could benefit from some new excitement. If the 'Yotes and Knights won't be ready to compete on even ground with their other division partners quite yet, their own rivalry might be a good tonic for some fun games at Gila River and in Vegas.

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04-09-2017, 12:30 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
More of this: Apparently for another year, while they continue looking for a deal for a new rink. And even if Barroway isn't as big a believer in getting a new arena as LeBlanc was, his potential buyout in June probably makes it too late to have any relocation this year.

Might see a bit of an interesting rivalry develop, even if only for a year or two while the 'Yotes remain in AZ, between a young, developing Coyotes team, and the new kid on the block, Vegas, which will have an interesting mix of veterans let go by others in a generous draft, and some kids pushed to play a little sooner than what's ideal. Could be some fun hockey games, peppered with the mistakes young teams will make, but also the kind of real spirited games young talent can play. That's got to be good for both fan bases that could benefit from some new excitement. If the 'Yotes and Knights won't be ready to compete on even ground with their other division partners quite yet, their own rivalry might be a good tonic for some fun games at Gila River and in Vegas.

Hard to understand the logic of playing another season with skeletal ownership, no new arena and the spectre of large losses! But such is the NHl`s situation in light of having erred on ownership just a few years back.

Better question is where oh where has Tony gone?

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04-09-2017, 01:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Hard to understand the logic of playing another season with skeletal ownership, no new arena and the spectre of large losses! But such is the NHl`s situation in light of having erred on ownership just a few years back.

Better question is where oh where has Tony gone?
There is no logic in playing another season in Glendale, yet that's what's gonna happen, because it's the Coyotes' saga!

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04-09-2017, 02:48 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Hard to understand the logic of playing another season with skeletal ownership, no new arena and the spectre of large losses! But such is the NHl`s situation in light of having erred on ownership just a few years back.

Better question is where oh where has Tony gone?
Mesa I'm not sure if Jamison was the answer either. There were more people involved and it would have been the same situation with a lease that Uncle Jerry and the tire salesman would have looked for some sort of loophole out. The only benefit would have been not having LeBlanc as a front man, but he was part of that Jamison group at one point.

Or are you referring to as far back as selling to Ellman and Moyes? We'd probably be in agreement in that case.

As to where Anthony is these days?? I think he's done. If Bettman hasn't had him whisked off to a remote area of the desert, Barroway probably has.

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04-09-2017, 02:50 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
There is no logic in playing another season in Glendale, yet that's what's gonna happen, because it's the Coyotes' saga!
Well to be fair, if the geographical imbalance makes Seattle the only relo target they have to wait to see if Seattle can get their arena situation sorted out. Maybe Barroway is just waiting to see if Hansen's arena gets approved and he can partner with him.

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04-09-2017, 02:58 PM
  #86
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04-09-2017, 03:01 PM
  #87
Killion
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
There is no logic in playing another season in Glendale, yet that's what's gonna happen, because it's the Coyotes' saga!
We live in a Newtonian World of Einsteinian Physics rule by Frankenstein logic and this Monster will not die. Maybe never, ever, neverever ever ever ever Slashers.

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04-09-2017, 03:15 PM
  #88
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As to where Anthony is these days?? I think he's done. If Bettman hasn't had him whisked off to a remote area of the desert, Barroway probably has.
... ya, very strange... noticeably absent.... did you attend yesterdays game, spot him at GRA? I understand they had to put up a united front with Bettman & Barroway taking the lead on the lobbying efforts, dont want some loose cannon contradicting carefully crafted statements & positions but still.... he's been the QB on just about every play since 2013 & here they pull a Jimmy Hoffa on the guy?... and not so surprisingly no one in the media has picked up on it, tried to track him down, see if he's even showing up for work or what? Any other market for sure people would be asking around, your lead guy, face/mouth of the franchise, CEO & Alternate Governor just "vanishes" at so obviously a critical juncture? Something seriously heavy went down or what?

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04-09-2017, 03:29 PM
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What are the chances the NHL moves them to Vegas?

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04-09-2017, 03:45 PM
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What are the chances the NHL moves them to Vegas?
Zero.

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04-09-2017, 04:19 PM
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What are the chances the NHL moves them to Vegas?
Nope

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04-09-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotaf7 View Post
What are the chances the NHL moves them to Vegas?
that question died when the NHL awarded Foley his own team, Foley had no interest in buying an existing team and add in an arena on top of that [MOD]


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 04-09-2017 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Less is more
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04-09-2017, 05:57 PM
  #93
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If anything the new team in Vegas covers the southwest market and makes the Coyotes expendable in regards to the NHL getting a nation wide tv contract.

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04-09-2017, 06:20 PM
  #94
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40th largest media (Vegas) market for the 12th largest. Twice as smart by half. The Jacksonville Jaguars are worth approx 3-4 NHL teams the NHL doesn't do high TV ratings anywhere.



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If anything the new team in Vegas covers the southwest market and makes the Coyotes expendable in regards to the NHL getting a nation wide tv contract.

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04-09-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Hard to understand the logic of playing another season with skeletal ownership, no new arena and the spectre of large losses! But such is the NHl`s situation in light of having erred on ownership just a few years back.

Better question is where oh where has Tony gone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
There is no logic in playing another season in Glendale, yet that's what's gonna happen, because it's the Coyotes' saga!
Logic? That was the first thing jettisoned in this saga. Logically, a team with these kinds of losses would've been relocated long ago but the NHL, when it comes to the Coyotes, has rarely ever done the logical thing. Thus, in the face of the aforementioned headwinds of skeleton crew ownership, high losses, no subsidy, and no new arena planned, the most likely thing the NHL will do is double down.

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04-09-2017, 06:24 PM
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40th largest media (Vegas) market for the 12th largest. Twice as smart by half.
Yeah, I think people will be surprised at how small Vegas is. It's come a long way since 1990 but it's still a small market and it has a 'market cap' on its size (low economic diversity. It's not as diversified from the entertainment/casino industry as it should be, which was why the crash hit it so hard, targetting its two pillars- recreational spending & housing prices). It has gotten large enough to get at least 1 sports team. Still, if any league had no teams in either and was presented with the choice of Phoenix or Vegas, they'd all choose Phoenix without hesitation.

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04-09-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Hard to understand the logic of playing another season with skeletal ownership, no new arena and the spectre of large losses! But such is the NHl`s situation in light of having erred on ownership just a few years back.

Better question is where oh where has Tony gone?
Why not? They have been doing this since the fiasco began!!

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04-09-2017, 06:30 PM
  #98
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True. I have many friends in the Pittsburg area, none watch or give two expletives about the NHL. I saw a interview a few years ago where Tyler Segiun lamented he was less popular in DFW than the Cowboys third string QB. Even funnier the Cowboys up until the last season generally only had two roster QB's.



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Yeah, I think people will be surprised at how small Vegas is. It's come a long way since 1990 but it's still a small market and it has a 'market cap' on its size (low economic diversity. It's not as diversified from the entertainment/casino industry as it should be, which was why the crash hit it so hard, targetting its two pillars- recreational spending & housing prices). It has gotten large enough to get at least 1 sports team. Still, if any league had no teams in either and was presented with the choice of Phoenix or Vegas, they'd all choose Phoenix without hesitation.

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04-09-2017, 06:34 PM
  #99
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Perhaps instead of logic behind this team hanging around another year, it's more rationale.

On January 1, the lease auto extended for the 2017-18 season. The team didn't act to cancel it on time, because they were in the midst of lobbying for funding via the legislature and made an assumption that they would get it just to be blindsided when ASU pulled out.

It was already to late, so might as well continue to try via the location agnostic plan.

With the bill on the verge of dying officially in about a week or two, pending a buyout they're stuck without a plan. They'll need a new one with financing by the end of the year, otherwise it will be really time for business to pick up!

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04-09-2017, 06:37 PM
  #100
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I saw a interview a few years ago where Tyler Segiun lamented he was less popular in DFW than the Cowboys third string QB.
If Seguin were in Winnipeg, he'd lamenting that he is popular.

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