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Alex Galchenyuk - Helen Lovejoy Edition

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Old
04-08-2017, 05:08 PM
  #51
scrubadam
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
I agree that picks come with no guarantees. The point is that Bergevin is responsible for all aspects of hockey, including development. I hope you're not going to try to convince anyone that Chucky had every opportunity to develop into a 1st line centre. They've dropped the ball on him so far, as far as I can see.

Development at the NHL level is doubly important when a pick skips over the AHL. It's bad enough his ice time hasn't increased much, if at all, since the team clinched. But he's also being played on LW, by far his weakest of the 3 forward positions he can play. The team should be doing everything possible to get him going. I don't see that they are at all.
Why does this have to be an MB debate? It seems like people want to use AG to debate on MB/MT. I think its time to put that in the past.

And now is not the time to put AG ahead of the team. He is playing where he is because CJ doesn't see it in him to play in other spots. Are we going to start bashing CJ now to over AG?

Personally I don't think he deserves the bashing he is getting, but I also don't think he deserves to be on a pedastal where we have to play him as a top C or else. Let him play where its best for the team.

If you put him at C between Shaw/Lek which I have no problem with, it isn't going to change anything. He still won't take FO's he still won't be great defensivly he still will try to fire off 1 timers. A guy like Radu has no issue carrying the puck from the wing, nor does Galley so AG being at C or W doesn't make a difference.

Let the kid go out there pressure free not having to worry about being the org saviour and I bet he will get his game back. We could of gotten Yak or Murray in the draft instead we have a guy who can get 50+ points and 25+ goals thats not bad.

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04-08-2017, 05:20 PM
  #52
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To Nashville?
For James Neal?

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04-08-2017, 05:34 PM
  #53
groovejuice
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
Why does this have to be an MB debate? It seems like people want to use AG to debate on MB/MT. I think its time to put that in the past.

And now is not the time to put AG ahead of the team. He is playing where he is because CJ doesn't see it in him to play in other spots. Are we going to start bashing CJ now to over AG?

Personally I don't think he deserves the bashing he is getting, but I also don't think he deserves to be on a pedastal where we have to play him as a top C or else. Let him play where its best for the team.

If you put him at C between Shaw/Lek which I have no problem with, it isn't going to change anything. He still won't take FO's he still won't be great defensivly he still will try to fire off 1 timers. A guy like Radu has no issue carrying the puck from the wing, nor does Galley so AG being at C or W doesn't make a difference.

Let the kid go out there pressure free not having to worry about being the org saviour and I bet he will get his game back. We could of gotten Yak or Murray in the draft instead we have a guy who can get 50+ points and 25+ goals thats not bad.
What does a GM have to do with development? What does that have to do with how a young player performs after 5 years? In your ardor to support that poor denigrated Bergevin, you should try to remember that ensuring the teams draft picks are meeting or surpassing expectations is his damn job.

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04-08-2017, 05:46 PM
  #54
The Great Pateryn
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I'm still going to guess Trocheck for Galchenyuk.

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04-08-2017, 05:47 PM
  #55
scrubadam
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
What does a GM have to do with development? What does that have to do with how a young player performs after 5 years? In your ardor to support that poor denigrated Bergevin, you should try to remember that ensuring the teams draft picks are meeting or surpassing expectations is his damn job.
So AG is just a stick to beat MB then?

AG has done pretty well for his expectations unless you were dreaming in technicolor and expected him to be elite. Much better than Yak/Reilly/Murray/Reinhart.

He has not been the same since injury. Before the injury he was playing like a fine 2C. Since then he has not been playing well even CJ recognizes that. Before he was injured he was nearly a PPG going back to last year.

In the end it really seems like the AG debate is just a way to frame the MB/MT debate all over. The anti MB crowd can't wait to put AG's weakness's on MB. Kids been in the league 5 years playing with some great players along the way and he is still making the same bad plays and is still not doing what the coach wants him to do. At some point its on the player. Look at a guy like Danault. He forced his coaches hand and plays the way the coach wants him to and he is rewarded. AG should take a page out of Danaults book because he has way more talent than Danault.

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04-08-2017, 05:53 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn View Post
I'm still going to guess Trocheck for Galchenyuk.
First time I hear Trochek in a deal for Galchenyuk. You always hear Duchene or even Tavares. Trochek is intriguing. I'm not 100% sure I'd do it but I do like this player. He's on a real good deal, as well: 4.75M until 2021-22 (5 years after this season).

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04-08-2017, 05:54 PM
  #57
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Still an excellent player at center position, but the narrative is clearly being pushed. We are going to trade him for peanuts. I was hoping it was just to lowball his contract but if that is true we have the worst kind of people running this organisation.

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04-08-2017, 05:57 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Adam Michaels View Post
First time I hear Trochek in a deal for Galchenyuk. You always hear Duchene or even Tavares. Trochek is intriguing. I'm not 100% sure I'd do it but I do like this player. He's on a real good deal, as well: 4.75M until 2021-22 (5 years after this season).
Duchene is not a true center. They like him on the wing better. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Trocheck is the PERFECT player for Julien. Hardworking energy ball that has pretty good offensive instincts(not as good as Chucky). Think of a much better version of Danault.

With that being said, you aren't winning the cup with Trocheck as your #1 C, and I really don't want to trade Chucky. Pretty sure Florida wouldn't do it, but Galchenyuk lives in Florida, and they might want to switch up their core.

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04-08-2017, 05:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Adam Michaels View Post
First time I hear Trochek in a deal for Galchenyuk. You always hear Duchene or even Tavares. Trochek is intriguing. I'm not 100% sure I'd do it but I do like this player. He's on a real good deal, as well: 4.75M until 2021-22 (5 years after this season).

It's more a guess by fans because Florida as some depth at C and not really on the wings.

Plus Trocheck is a MB/CJ type of player.


Personnaly I would love a Trocheck for Galchenyuk trade. We would still need another center tho. Little/RNH/Duchene/Johnson/something like that.


Then our center line would be quite strong and with solid all around players. Let's say Duchene/Trocheck/Danault.

That C line, with the wingers we have and maybe a vet free agent a la Vrbata. We would have a pretty solid offense with depth and great 2 way players.

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04-08-2017, 06:00 PM
  #60
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Still an excellent player at center position, but the narrative is clearly being pushed. We are going to trade him for peanuts. I was hoping it was just to lowball his contract but if that is true we have the worst kind of people running this organisation.
Who is pushing the narrative though? CJ and MB or posters on this board?

I highly doubt MB has an HF account so he isn't listening to any narratives that are being thrown around here.

Only way I think AG is traded is if JT is coming back or he still wants 6+ x6.

If I was MB I would strike now and offer him the same contract Max got.

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04-08-2017, 06:14 PM
  #61
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So AG is just a stick to beat MB then?

AG has done pretty well for his expectations unless you were dreaming in technicolor and expected him to be elite. Much better than Yak/Reilly/Murray/Reinhart.

He has not been the same since injury. Before the injury he was playing like a fine 2C. Since then he has not been playing well even CJ recognizes that. Before he was injured he was nearly a PPG going back to last year.

In the end it really seems like the AG debate is just a way to frame the MB/MT debate all over. The anti MB crowd can't wait to put AG's weakness's on MB. Kids been in the league 5 years playing with some great players along the way and he is still making the same bad plays and is still not doing what the coach wants him to do. At some point its on the player. Look at a guy like Danault. He forced his coaches hand and plays the way the coach wants him to and he is rewarded. AG should take a page out of Danaults book because he has way more talent than Danault.
Point per game and top 5 in scoring is not #2 centre. You're contradicting yourself. Is it the injury or Chucky's horrible attitude? Chucky was forcing his coaches for years and got bupkus. He should have been playing centre since 2013
- 2014. Stop your blind support of Bergevin. The guy has made some awful mistakes as well as some great moves. Letting his coach torpedo players for years was retch inducing. He was party to the undermining of more than one player that never reached his potential.

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04-08-2017, 06:49 PM
  #62
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Trocheck is intriguing. I had no idea he was just 5'10. He looks bigger out there.

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04-08-2017, 06:51 PM
  #63
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Trocheck is intriguing. I had no idea he was just 5'10. He looks bigger out there.
Looks bigger than Galchenyuk.

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04-08-2017, 08:40 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by The Great Pateryn;130538871[B
]Duchene is not a true center. [/B]They like him on the wing better. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Trocheck is the PERFECT player for Julien. Hardworking energy ball that has pretty good offensive instincts(not as good as Chucky). Think of a much better version of Danault.

With that being said, you aren't winning the cup with Trocheck as your #1 C, and I really don't want to trade Chucky. Pretty sure Florida wouldn't do it, but Galchenyuk lives in Florida, and they might want to switch up their core.
... at least, he can win 62% of his faceoffs....

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04-08-2017, 09:05 PM
  #65
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I highly doubt he is going anywhere.

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04-08-2017, 09:10 PM
  #66
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Good to see he scored, hope he steps up in playoffs.
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... at least, he can win 62% of his faceoffs....
Good thing there is more to winning faceoffs. GM's like him better at wing.

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04-08-2017, 09:19 PM
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The conspiracy theories here are crazy. He started the season on top of his game as a Center and then was injured. It clearly took him some time to get his groove back (not uncommon when coming back from a fairly serious knee injury) , started getting hot again (multiple OT winners) and has been trying to find his way on wing with a new coach.

He's on pace for a 60 pts season , has more assists this year in less games and 2nd on the for GWG after Pacioretty. I don't see the problem here...

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04-08-2017, 09:26 PM
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Point per game and top 5 in scoring is not #2 centre. You're contradicting yourself. Is it the injury or Chucky's horrible attitude? Chucky was forcing his coaches for years and got bupkus. He should have been playing centre since 2013
- 2014. Stop your blind support of Bergevin. The guy has made some awful mistakes as well as some great moves. Letting his coach torpedo players for years was retch inducing. He was party to the undermining of more than one player that never reached his potential.
I never said AG had a horrible attitude. I said he wasn't playing the way his coach wanted him to. Evidence of this is that CJ kept saying he will work with AG and then dropped him to the 4th line. CJ and the staff was asking of him to play a certain way and he didn't like what he saw. I also think that the injury has effected him and he lost his mojo that he had from last year and before the injury.

As far as playing C, doesn't make a difference. He was C from last year to this year aside from Jan to Feb. Plenty of time at C. And I don't have a problem with AG going back to C. Put him there between Shaw/Lek. In the end Shaw takes the FO's anyways. Which brings me to my other point, Shaw isn't a full time C; Galley isn't a C yet coaches trust them to take FO's. So being C has nothing to do with FO. Lek is trusted for D and he is wing. Max is trusted for D and plays PK he is a winger. So playing C in 2013 has nothing to do with AG being good at FO or defensivly.

AG can play C or W his biggest strength is really his shot. I also don't think he is going to be a full 200ft elite C. He can def at some point be a great scoring C. He could even get 60+ points next year if he doesn't get injured. Just I think its time to stop annointing him as the saviour. If he plays W/C 1st line/2nd/3rd line as long as he contributes thats all that matters to me.

And I don't care to turn this into an MB debate. To me the player is responsible for their play. 2012 was not a great draft and even with all his struggles AG is still the top 1/2 or 3 player taken that draft. So I don't think the organization has anything to be upset with AG unless you had the fantasy that just because he was drafted 3rd OVA that he was going to be an HOFer.

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04-08-2017, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by King In Glory View Post
The conspiracy theories here are crazy. He started the season on top of his game as a Center and then was injured. It clearly took him some time to get his groove back (not uncommon when coming back from a fairly serious knee injury) , started getting hot again (multiple OT winners) and has been trying to find his way on wing with a new coach.

He's on pace for a 60 pts season , has more assists this year in less games and 2nd on the for GWG after Pacioretty. I don't see the problem here...
Some people might think I am ragging on AG but I agree with you. and 5 OT goals this season expect some heroics in the PO's from the kid.

Just put expectations in check. Look at McDavid/Matthews these guys dominated from the beginning. AG has been good but never dominated. He is in a tier below. Still a good player. Could of had Reilly/Reinhart/Murray/Yakupov instead.

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04-08-2017, 09:34 PM
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He won't get anywhere with this coach with his attitude. If his compete level doesn't improve he won't be getting more ice time and won't be playing with the best players. Julien definitely won't flinch first, if he wants more ice time he's gotta show more consistent effort no matter what position he plays.

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04-08-2017, 09:40 PM
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Some people might think I am ragging on AG but I agree with you. and 5 OT goals this season expect some heroics in the PO's from the kid.

Just put expectations in check. Look at McDavid/Matthews these guys dominated from the beginning. AG has been good but never dominated. He is in a tier below. Still a good player. Could of had Reilly/Reinhart/Murray/Yakupov instead.
McDavid is a generational player , Matthews is looking like a (potential) generational sniper , while both being 1st overall picks in very strong drafts.
Galchenyuk is producing well considering the team (not one I would consider offensively elite) and even when compared to his direct peers (Forsberg for example) we can note that although their output is similar (with a clear edge to Forsberg) ,however Galchenyuk plays significantly less while clearly deserving more.

No one can say a player with a good attitude , skill and consistent improvement isn't progressing well , it's literally the definition. That being said he has some areas of improvement but as usual our fans/media are trying to make mountains out of molehills.

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He won't get anywhere with this coach with his attitude. If his compete level doesn't improve he won't be getting more ice time and won't be playing with the best players. Julien definitely won't flinch first, if he wants more ice time he's gotta show more consistent effort no matter what position he plays.
Please provide some kind of proof to support this statement. I haven't seen any lack of effort or attitude issues in any game or interview.


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04-08-2017, 10:11 PM
  #72
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I never said AG had a horrible attitude. I said he wasn't playing the way his coach wanted him to. Evidence of this is that CJ kept saying he will work with AG and then dropped him to the 4th line. CJ and the staff was asking of him to play a certain way and he didn't like what he saw. I also think that the injury has effected him and he lost his mojo that he had from last year and before the injury.

As far as playing C, doesn't make a difference. He was C from last year to this year aside from Jan to Feb. Plenty of time at C. And I don't have a problem with AG going back to C. Put him there between Shaw/Lek. In the end Shaw takes the FO's anyways. Which brings me to my other point, Shaw isn't a full time C; Galley isn't a C yet coaches trust them to take FO's. So being C has nothing to do with FO. Lek is trusted for D and he is wing. Max is trusted for D and plays PK he is a winger. So playing C in 2013 has nothing to do with AG being good at FO or defensivly.

AG can play C or W his biggest strength is really his shot. I also don't think he is going to be a full 200ft elite C. He can def at some point be a great scoring C. He could even get 60+ points next year if he doesn't get injured. Just I think its time to stop annointing him as the saviour. If he plays W/C 1st line/2nd/3rd line as long as he contributes thats all that matters to me.

And I don't care to turn this into an MB debate. To me the player is responsible for their play. 2012 was not a great draft and even with all his struggles AG is still the top 1/2 or 3 player taken that draft. So I don't think the organization has anything to be upset with AG unless you had the fantasy that just because he was drafted 3rd OVA that he was going to be an HOFer.
Nah, you always hope a top 5 player will become elite but that's not that common. You do have a realistic hope of a 1st liner. I've been following hockey way too long to base my loyalties on whims, hopes and unicorns.

We're in desperate need of a top centre and Chucky has looked like that guy playing the position in the last 2 years. He's not perfect, but his defense will improve over time and he's already made strides with his faceoffs. I really, really want him to train with the likes of Gary Roberts and also to do as much power skating as possible.

I bring Bergevin up because he endorsed the years of misuse of Galchenyuk by Therrien and overseeing development is his responsibility. Also, he hasn't seen fit to draft many centres, something that we've needed since before he signed on. I hope that will be a priority going forward, especially because he himself had stated you need to acquire them through the draft. Get on it Marc. If you don't want to discuss Bergevin, that's fine. Respond to other points in my posts. I'm sure you're exhausted from defending him like he's your great grandmother.

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04-08-2017, 10:14 PM
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Please provide some kind of proof to support this statement. I haven't seen any lack of effort or attitude issues in any game or interview.
The coach said so. And then in a game where Patch, Rads and Pleks weren't playing he put him on the 4th line. You need more proof?


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04-08-2017, 10:29 PM
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The coach said so. And then in a game where Patch, Rads and Pleks were't playing he put him on the 4th line. You need more proof?
Galchenyuk gets rest as well, he just doesn't get a full game off.

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04-08-2017, 10:36 PM
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Trading gakchenyuk will be a huge Mistake. Improved his ppg every season and is third in points amongst forwards even while playing 13 fewer games


Toi is tragic and although it may b deserved st times I wonder if that's the best way to help him

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