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Alex Galchenyuk - Helen Lovejoy Edition

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Old
04-08-2017, 10:56 PM
  #76
King In Glory
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Originally Posted by CHaracter79 View Post
Trading gakchenyuk will be a huge Mistake. Improved his ppg every season and is third in points amongst forwards even while playing 13 fewer games


Toi is tragic and although it may b deserved st times I wonder if that's the best way to help him
I think he will be fine but trading him for anything less than an established 1st line center (in their prime) would be a mistake. He can and will develop into one (this isn't hope and a prayer) he has improved year after year with his only setback being an injury and subsequent confidence issues. Statistically he is already a 30G / 60+ pts center , the proof being before his injury he was well on pace for 70+ pts and even with all these so called issues he is still on pace for 60 pts this season (including some time spent where the whole team was god awful).

Basic truths in hockey :

- Players games will evolve and mature at different rates.
- Greatness is not always achieved by linear progression.
- Players coming back from fairly serious injuries take time to get their groove back (see Eichel for a recent comparison).
- Young centers often have a hard time with face-offs and trying to do too much. (see Duchene/Eichel/Kuznetsov and to an extent McDavid)

In the words of the saviour himself "Relax and chill out".


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04-08-2017, 11:16 PM
  #77
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Not sure whats up with him but he's cost himself a lot of money with his play this season. Hard to blame anyone but Alex right now.
Next season may be a lot different.

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04-09-2017, 12:41 AM
  #78
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The playoffs are a clean slate for everyone. I think at this point, all many of us want to see from Alex Galchenyuk is some sheer will and intensity. Hopefully, we'll see that in the playoffs.

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04-09-2017, 01:14 AM
  #79
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good timing to keep him boosted for playoffs

i think our team is ready

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04-09-2017, 01:38 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by CHaracter79 View Post
Trading gakchenyuk will be a huge Mistake. Improved his ppg every season and is third in points amongst forwards even while playing 13 fewer games


Toi is tragic and although it may b deserved st times I wonder if that's the best way to help him
I think not trading him will be a mistake, i dont see him retaining his current value.

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04-09-2017, 06:11 AM
  #81
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So AG is just a stick to beat MB then?

AG has done pretty well for his expectations unless you were dreaming in technicolor and expected him to be elite. Much better than Yak/Reilly/Murray/Reinhart.

He has not been the same since injury. Before the injury he was playing like a fine 2C. Since then he has not been playing well even CJ recognizes that. Before he was injured he was nearly a PPG going back to last year.

In the end it really seems like the AG debate is just a way to frame the MB/MT debate all over. The anti MB crowd can't wait to put AG's weakness's on MB. Kids been in the league 5 years playing with some great players along the way and he is still making the same bad plays and is still not doing what the coach wants him to do. At some point its on the player. Look at a guy like Danault. He forced his coaches hand and plays the way the coach wants him to and he is rewarded. AG should take a page out of Danaults book because he has way more talent than Danault.
huh PPG... is 2nd line C to you ??

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04-09-2017, 06:12 AM
  #82
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I think not trading him will be a mistake, i dont see him retaining his current value.
I'm fine whether he stays or goes (providing we get fair value for him).

My problem has been not getting complementary players to play with him, like we never really went out and got someone to play with Pleks (Jagr), Pacioretty (someone not named DD) or even PK, as examples. We seemed happy to just juggle around the lineup putting pieces here and there and hoping for the best.

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04-09-2017, 06:26 AM
  #83
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I don't want him traded but now I could certainly see it happening if CJ wants it although you would hope he would have learned a lesson from trading away tyler seguin as I'm guessing he at least had some say in it. That said I would be very interested to see what a package of Galchenyuk, 2017 1st round, Beaulieu and Scherbak could get us. This team badly needs help down the middle, and we got to improve the offense if we want to compete with the likes of the hawks, pens, caps, etc.. Going to be an interesting off-season for sure.

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04-09-2017, 06:47 AM
  #84
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I don't want him traded but now I could certainly see it happening if CJ wants it although you would hope he would have learned a lesson from trading away tyler seguin as I'm guessing he at least had some say in it. That said I would be very interested to see what a package of Galchenyuk, 2017 1st round, Beaulieu and Scherbak could get us. This team badly needs help down the middle, and we got to improve the offense if we want to compete with the likes of the hawks, pens, caps, etc.. Going to be an interesting off-season for sure.
UFA list isnt teeming with top centers either. Can't see jumbo leaving San Jose, but hopefully that Dadonov kid has some interest in habs, seems like he's having a good playoffs.

I'd still hold onto Galchenyuk though, he is top line talent. It's all mobility for him right now. Yeah it's been 5 years, but we've seen it in those 5 years too. When the kid is working hard and moving his feet, he is hard to contain.

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04-09-2017, 06:50 AM
  #85
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So AG is just a stick to beat MB then?

AG has done pretty well for his expectations unless you were dreaming in technicolor and expected him to be elite. Much better than Yak/Reilly/Murray/Reinhart.

He has not been the same since injury. Before the injury he was playing like a fine 2C. Since then he has not been playing well even CJ recognizes that. Before he was injured he was nearly a PPG going back to last year.
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huh PPG... is 2nd line C to you ??
I agree, that is ridiculous. He was playing as a #1C from February of last year through to his injury this year, and scoring 0.9 PPG.

What he is not, and has never been, is an "all-round" number 1C like Kopitar and Toews in their best days. But not every #1C is superior defensively. Many get sheltered a bit, and it can be fine if there are other Cs who can take the hard minutes.

The problem with Chucky is that when his defence goes from fair to bad, as it sometimes does, most coaches won't continue to give him huge minutes at C. He needs to get better at defensive positioning. He could learn from guys like Lehkonen and Danault or even a JDLR if he is with us next year.

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04-09-2017, 07:03 AM
  #86
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Still an excellent player at center position, but the narrative is clearly being pushed. We are going to trade him for peanuts. I was hoping it was just to lowball his contract but if that is true we have the worst kind of people running this organisation.
Pushing a narrative, and putting players in a position not to succeed in order to get a better contract out of Galchenyuk, THAT would be the worst kind of people running the org.

AG is lowering his own value by himself. In the mean time, we have players like Patch, Price, Radulov, Weber, Markov who are all ready to win now. The question is can we afford to be patient with this guy given the age and contract status of our veteran star players? The Galchenyuk from the start of the year would be a huge asset. This Galchenyuk, if that's the guy we're getting next year, then we need to trade him to get value back for the cup push next year.

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04-09-2017, 07:11 AM
  #87
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UFA list isnt teeming with top centers either. Can't see jumbo leaving San Jose, but hopefully that Dadonov kid has some interest in habs, seems like he's having a good playoffs.

I'd still hold onto Galchenyuk though, he is top line talent. It's all mobility for him right now. Yeah it's been 5 years, but we've seen it in those 5 years too. When the kid is working hard and moving his feet, he is hard to contain.
I don't want him traded unless it's an overpay but it doesn't matter what i want, it's what CJ wants. Hopefully he thinks he can work with him instead of trading him.

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04-09-2017, 07:11 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
Pushing a narrative, and putting players in a position not to succeed in order to get a better contract out of Galchenyuk, THAT would be the worst kind of people running the org.

AG is lowering his own value by himself. In the mean time, we have players like Patch, Price, Radulov, Weber, Markov who are all ready to win now. The question is can we afford to be patient with this guy given the age and contract status of our veteran star players? The Galchenyuk from the start of the year would be a huge asset. This Galchenyuk, if that's the guy we're getting next year, then we need to trade him to get value back for the cup push next year.
are you seriously wondering if the Habs should be (or not) patient with their 2nd youngest player (among regulars obviously) ??

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04-09-2017, 07:13 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
Pushing a narrative, and putting players in a position not to succeed in order to get a better contract out of Galchenyuk, THAT would be the worst kind of people running the org.

AG is lowering his own value by himself. In the mean time, we have players like Patch, Price, Radulov, Weber, Markov who are all ready to win now. The question is can we afford to be patient with this guy given the age and contract status of our veteran star players? The Galchenyuk from the start of the year would be a huge asset. This Galchenyuk, if that's the guy we're getting next year, then we need to trade him to get value back for the cup push next year.
I don't know, putting him on the wing time after time??? >Even last night with the Montreal Ice Caps he was on 3rd line as a winger to old man Ott and barely an NHLer #37...You sometimes have to baby some players and I feel tough love doesn't work with him. They certainly aren't helping him out from a game icetime/position perspective and we have seen Julien do it with Seguin in the past. I am leary of his hiring because of stuff like that, but was just happy to see Therrien finally gone.

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04-09-2017, 07:15 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
are you seriously wondering if the Habs should be (or not) patient with their 2nd youngest player (among regulars obviously) ??
They wanted 18 year old Gretz while forgetting most guys don't see a minute of NHL ice before 20.

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04-09-2017, 07:15 AM
  #91
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I don't want him traded but now I could certainly see it happening if CJ wants it although you would hope he would have learned a lesson from trading away tyler seguin as I'm guessing he at least had some say in it. That said I would be very interested to see what a package of Galchenyuk, 2017 1st round, Beaulieu and Scherbak could get us. This team badly needs help down the middle, and we got to improve the offense if we want to compete with the likes of the hawks, pens, caps, etc.. Going to be an interesting off-season for sure.
I don't think Julien wants anyone traded. He's been here for just over a month. I think he's just moving players around to see what he has, but he's also on a very tight deadline due to the POs nearing. So I'm not surprise that he's going with who's playing best for now, but I'm also pretty sure it's only a matter of time before he gets back up.

As for him getting traded, I don't mind, all depends on the return. A one vs one for Duchesne..meh..They are pretty identical, so I don't see the point, just like the Weber vs Subban deal was also useless, but even more so considering we got an older guy. A package for Tavares? Then hell yea.
So it all depends.

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04-09-2017, 07:24 AM
  #92
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I agree, that is ridiculous. He was playing as a #1C from February of last year through to his injury this year, and scoring 0.9 PPG.

What he is not, and has never been, is an "all-round" number 1C like Kopitar and Toews in their best days. But not every #1C is superior defensively. Many get sheltered a bit, and it can be fine if there are other Cs who can take the hard minutes.

The problem with Chucky is that when his defence goes from fair to bad, as it sometimes does, most coaches won't continue to give him huge minutes at C. He needs to get better at defensive positioning. He could learn from guys like Lehkonen and Danault or even a JDLR if he is with us next year.
Thatss what i meant vy a 2C. Maybe i should of said a lower end 1C then.

He put up points but he wasnt complete. Split hairs call him a top 6 c.

Either way i am not being hard on AG i just dont think he is in the tier of elite 1C. He is in the notch below. Still a very good C at the Turris level

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04-09-2017, 07:47 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by CHaracter79 View Post
Trading gakchenyuk will be a huge Mistake. Improved his ppg every season and is third in points amongst forwards even while playing 13 fewer games


Toi is tragic and although it may b deserved st times I wonder if that's the best way to help him

He can snipe, and make plays. We need to find another player at the talent level of Pacioretty and Radulov to play with him. Pacioretty wasn't producing when he wasn't playing with Radulov. Galchenyuk just needs his Radulov.


The question is, where are we going to get such a player???

Danault, Byron, and Lehkonen are keepers to fill the top 9. Hopefully Gallagher and Shaw can re-establish themselves. But we need that 4th player at the talent level of Chucky, Pacioretty, and Radulov.

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04-09-2017, 08:29 AM
  #94
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I don't think Julien wants anyone traded. He's been here for just over a month. I think he's just moving players around to see what he has, but he's also on a very tight deadline due to the POs nearing. So I'm not surprise that he's going with who's playing best for now, but I'm also pretty sure it's only a matter of time before he gets back up.

As for him getting traded, I don't mind, all depends on the return. A one vs one for Duchesne..meh..They are pretty identical, so I don't see the point, just like the Weber vs Subban deal was also useless, but even more so considering we got an older guy. A package for Tavares? Then hell yea.
So it all depends.
I agree with what you write. As for the bolded part, all day every day.

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He can snipe, and make plays. We need to find another player at the talent level of Pacioretty and Radulov to play with him. Pacioretty wasn't producing when he wasn't playing with Radulov. Galchenyuk just needs his Radulov.
Pacioretty started producing when he was put on the 3rd line with Danault and Shaw. When he was put with Radulov, he really took off. But it didn't take being put with Radulov for Pacioretty to start producing.


Quote:
The question is, where are we going to get such a player???

Danault, Byron, and Lehkonen are keepers to fill the top 9. Hopefully Gallagher and Shaw can re-establish themselves. But we need that 4th player at the talent level of Chucky, Pacioretty, and Radulov.
Gallagher and Shaw have re-established themselves. Ever since CJ came on board, Shaw has been playing exactly what we all expected him to play. And what makes him so much more effective is that he's way more disciplined.

Gallagher, particularly since the TDL, has been vintage Gallagher.

Everyone was going simultaneously and we finally had balanced scoring to end the season. The only one that was left to get going was Galchenyuk and we'd have a Top-9 that any one line can cause damage. Hopefully his better game last night and his OT goal is the start of that return to form.

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04-09-2017, 10:43 AM
  #95
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Two young players showed us this year they were top-6 material (Danault and Lekhonen). With Galchenyuk it's three players under 25 in the top-6. You need to build on that. With Max and if Radu can come back, you only have one spot open in the top-6 with Byron, Gallagher and Shaw to compete for it. Galchenyuk was good before his injury. You don't trade him. He is only 23. You work with him on his defensive game.

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04-09-2017, 10:57 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
Pushing a narrative, and putting players in a position not to succeed in order to get a better contract out of Galchenyuk, THAT would be the worst kind of people running the org.

AG is lowering his own value by himself. In the mean time, we have players like Patch, Price, Radulov, Weber, Markov who are all ready to win now. The question is can we afford to be patient with this guy given the age and contract status of our veteran star players? The Galchenyuk from the start of the year would be a huge asset. This Galchenyuk, if that's the guy we're getting next year, then we need to trade him to get value back for the cup push next year.
Why do we have to win now and is that really in our best interest as an organization?

Look at teams like SJ or Vancouver, they muddled along for a decade with one or two really good shots at winning the Cup. Isn't that better then having one or two shots at winning the Cup and then sucking for 6 to 8 years?

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04-09-2017, 11:29 AM
  #97
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Next season may be a lot different.
Does he not have to re-sign this summer? No idea what he's worth. 4-5 for 4 years?

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04-09-2017, 11:33 AM
  #98
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CJ just got here and Galchenyuk's already in the dog house. I don't see a future for him in this organisation. Right now he looks like a square peg. If he's traded, I hope it's for a king's ransom though.

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04-09-2017, 11:41 AM
  #99
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CJ just got here and Galchenyuk's already in the dog house. I don't see a future for him in this organisation. Right now he looks like a square peg. If he's traded, I hope it's for a king's ransom though.
Colorado's 1st overall pick ?.... Pick Patrick or Hischier ! OR Duchene + Colorado 2nd pick.

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04-09-2017, 12:49 PM
  #100
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you use to blame MT and DD instead of see what was the problem... Now, you see who is galchy... sorry men... You may have being wrong on your analysis over a 1rst line center.

Right now Galchy is not good and look as he doesn't care. ANY HOCHEY PLAYER only dream for a minute in the NHL. I was playing in a LHJMQ arena for a tournament the last 2 days, love every minute of it.

Galchy is to blame, was giving a lot since in the league. What a waste of talent... Hell of a good start, but since he is back from injury...
Again.. it's not about blame. It's about getting the most out of your lineup. Using him as your 3rd line LW is flat out dumb.

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The coach said so. And then in a game where Patch, Rads and Pleks weren't playing he put him on the 4th line. You need more proof?
If the coach says so... it must be true? Come on.

Maybe there's some truth to it but... I'm not sure why the go to reaction is always to punish the player. It's the eve of the playoffs and we need his scoring. He's clearly better at center so why not play him there? We're cutting off our nose to spite the face. It's just not a smart way to run your team.

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Originally Posted by CHaracter79 View Post
Trading gakchenyuk will be a huge Mistake. Improved his ppg every season and is third in points amongst forwards even while playing 13 fewer games

Toi is tragic and although it may b deserved st times I wonder if that's the best way to help him
It's going to happen. I think so anyway. Will it be a huge mistake? We'll have to wait and see on that one. Hopefully we get a great return.

I do think we can definitely say though that he's been mismanaged since the beginning. That's not even a question as far as I'm concerned. I was hoping CJ would be better for him but I don't see how it's going to work now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Louise View Post
Pushing a narrative, and putting players in a position not to succeed in order to get a better contract out of Galchenyuk, THAT would be the worst kind of people running the org.

AG is lowering his own value by himself. In the mean time, we have players like Patch, Price, Radulov, Weber, Markov who are all ready to win now. The question is can we afford to be patient with this guy given the age and contract status of our veteran star players? The Galchenyuk from the start of the year would be a huge asset. This Galchenyuk, if that's the guy we're getting next year, then we need to trade him to get value back for the cup push next year.
He's not doing it by himself.

The coach DECIDED to move him to wing. That was his call and it's been a disastrous move. I'm not sure why he did what he did but it's clearly not working. You can put blame on the player but he's never been good on the wing so why put him there. CJ owns some of this too. And that's just the present we're talking about. If we look at the big picture MT is the real problem here. Totally messed up his development.

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