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**OFFICIAL** GDT 2/11 - Kings vs. Blackhawks

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Old
02-11-2006, 07:15 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindcircus
The Kings need everything according to our HF and LGK boards. Realistically that's not going to happen. We need to go out and get something we've needed since before the season started, and that's a defensive defenseman.
I think that the Kings' defensive problem is part depth and part coaching, not specifically a lack of a defensive defenseman. Even a veteran offensive defenseman (such as Schneider or Blake) would address the depth issue by bumping Dempsey or Weaver off of the roster and providing better defense (assuming we aren't talking about Gonchar or similar, of course). A defensive defenseman would work, too. I'm up for either. I don't really see that much greater need for one over the other. The Kings are hurting in nearly all areas (depth, PP, PK), as you implied, and just need someone.


Last edited by Osprey: 02-11-2006 at 07:24 PM.
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02-11-2006, 07:25 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by riznat
slump or no slump, stars got nothing on LA this year
Remember that it is a different year (in more ways than just one digit)

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02-11-2006, 07:37 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
You don't think that a replacement would do as well if given the same prime minutes and opportunities that Corvo gets? I agree that he's scoring big goals, but he gets them because AM uses him and Visnovsky almost exclusively when they need big goals, same with the other 1st PP unit players. Few other players are allowed the opportunity.

right... so you're saying that just about any defender can go in and just score goals, they just got to be given the ice time...

in fact, thats all it is! just ice time! give any player the ice time during big game situations and then boom, they're going to score big goals as much as Corvo does. Maybe we should resign Kuznetzov and put him back there to man our plays during clutch situations. We could then trade Corvo for picks and lower our salary cap at the same time. It's too bad we don't have Coaches and GMs like you...

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02-11-2006, 07:58 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
right... so you're saying that just about any defender can go in and just score goals, they just got to be given the ice time...

in fact, thats all it is! just ice time! give any player the ice time during big game situations and then boom, they're going to score big goals as much as Corvo does. Maybe we should resign Kuznetzov and put him back there to man our plays during clutch situations. We could then trade Corvo for picks and lower our salary cap at the same time. It's too bad we don't have Coaches and GMs like you...
This is one category that they (they being Reaper, Osprey, King ELVI) will never get me to join them on. Joe Corvo is a legitimate NHL defenseman, and thats all there is to it.

Gleason wouldn't have picked that corner.. Miller wouldn't have picked that corner.. Norstrom wouldn't have.. (go ahead.. I dare you to bring up the OT goal against Dallas) Dempsey, Weaver.. Hell, Visnovsky might have not scored that goal. That was a beauty shot.

Corvo did one dumb thing that I saw today.. The shot on his own goal. I knew when I got home from the game people would be on him.. Of course with no praise for winning us the hockey game.

And here comes Spongebob with his, "If Garon didn't make a few saves, Corvo wouldn't have got the chance to score." "If Demitra didn't make the pass he wouldn't have scored."

He SCORED THE GOAL! And he's scored THE GOALS to win us hockey games. 'Nuff said.

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02-11-2006, 10:37 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us
This is one category that they (they being Reaper, Osprey, King ELVI) will never get me to join them on. Joe Corvo is a legitimate NHL defenseman, and thats all there is to it.

Gleason wouldn't have picked that corner.. Miller wouldn't have picked that corner.. Norstrom wouldn't have.. (go ahead.. I dare you to bring up the OT goal against Dallas) Dempsey, Weaver.. Hell, Visnovsky might have not scored that goal. That was a beauty shot.

Corvo did one dumb thing that I saw today.. The shot on his own goal. I knew when I got home from the game people would be on him.. Of course with no praise for winning us the hockey game.

And here comes Spongebob with his, "If Garon didn't make a few saves, Corvo wouldn't have got the chance to score." "If Demitra didn't make the pass he wouldn't have scored."

He SCORED THE GOAL! And he's scored THE GOALS to win us hockey games. 'Nuff said.
At this point, he is a legitimate defenseman. A SIXTH defensemen...nothing more and I think several people on your list acknowledge his value in the # six role.

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02-11-2006, 10:39 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Blackhawks Lines:

Calder-Arnason-Bourque
Vrbata-Bell-Barnaby
Holmqvist-Sharp-Lapointe
Wisniewski-Dowd-Brown

Cullimore-Seabrook
Keith-Vandermeer
Simpson-Richmond

Anderson-Munro

Their only healthy scratch is Andy Hilbert, with Aucoin, Daze, Ruutu and Khabibulin all on IR.

Just wondering which hat you pull this stuff out of.

Wisniewski is, was and will be a DEFENSEMAN.

and, Hilbert played

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02-11-2006, 10:54 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan25
At this point, he is a legitimate defenseman. A SIXTH defensemen...nothing more and I think several people on your list acknowledge his value in the # six role.
Exactly. And hey, his shot was sick today. Too bad he doesn't always seem to be able to do that. Not to mention it's a contract year for Joe C.

But honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most about Corvo is that he's a defenseman who plays no defense. 9 times out of 10 he just gives up when his man beats him.

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02-11-2006, 10:58 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
Exactly. And hey, his shot was sick today. Too bad he doesn't always seem to be able to do that. Not to mention it's a contract year for Joe C.

But honestly, the thing that pisses me off the most about Corvo is that he's a defenseman who plays no defense. 9 times out of 10 he just gives up when his man beats him.
And 9 times out of 10 when a different defenseman does it.. You just seem to miss it.

Joe Corvo is a #4 D-man, IMO.

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02-11-2006, 11:08 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofCrunk
#5 and a good power play guy, IMO. A team with Joe Corvo or anything similar as their 4th won't get very far.
I hope we do get rid of him.. In fact.. I hope he goes to the Ducks. And we meet them in the playoffs.. Game 7, and he scores the winner.

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02-11-2006, 11:12 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us
And 9 times out of 10 when a different defenseman does it.. You just seem to miss it.

Joe Corvo is a #4 D-man, IMO.
Corvo right now is not top 4. Whether he can be in time, I'm not going to say with any air of certainty...he's made strides in his game this year but they're exclusively offensive. Becoming a reasonable top-4 depends on becoming at least average in your own zone. Corvo is not that...though if he works hard, he might be able to shore his D up(I think he used to be thought of as having decent D capabilities at some point in his career?) The Kings blueline is a testament to players who have worked hard to develop another espect of their game..I refer of course to Matty and Gleason, both of whom were apparently originally scouted for their offense.

However, until he stops being a liability on the backend...or at least less of a liability, he can't be trusted with top-4 minutes.

And you probably have a point about him getting too much flack for his mistakes...he is a whipping boy, and thus, the brunt of some excessive criticism. But nonetheless, he is more of a risk on D than the current top-four. He does have some sick O skills, though...and if he were to just solidify his D game to adequate, then he'd probably be top 4.

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02-11-2006, 11:23 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan25
And you probably have a point about him getting too much flack for his mistakes...he is a whipping boy, and thus, the brunt of some excessive criticism. But nonetheless, he is more of a risk on D than the current top-four. He does have some sick O skills, though...and if he were to just solidify his D game to adequate, then he'd probably be top 4.
Agreed.

These Corvo debates always end like this.

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02-11-2006, 11:24 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofCrunk
Besides Vancouver (and that's questionable), can anyone tell me a Western Conference playoff team that has a worse 4th guy than Corvo? I've watched games on Center Ice all year and don't see one that is.

He can be a 4 in time, but I think he'll be wanting a little too much money to be sticking around in LA. If he could play defense, then I'd want him to stay. All these goals drive his value up, not much, but still up.
Get me the list of 4th guys, and I can probably name you a couple.

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02-11-2006, 11:27 PM
  #113
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Corvo should stop scoring goals. When he doesn't score atleast people don't go out of their way to find something wrong to bash him. If, there is one thing Corvo does it is hustle. This guy skates down the ice as fast as he can to prevent odd man rushes everytime! He makes bad plays from time to time but who doesn't? Whatever, I'm done about arguing with SOME of you guys on Corvo because you guys cant get your heads out of your a$$e$ and admit at the very least he's a solid 5th or 6th d-man with above average offensive ability.

As for the game, I was thrilled to see the Kings win. I don't care if, chicago sucks because we weren't exactly tearing up the league lol. It builds momentum going against the stars tomorrow afternoon. And for people who say we played a bad game because it took OT to win, all I'll say is if, we had good-above average goal tending today we would have dominated. We made some nice plays and the penalty kill was awesome. Yes, we gave up 2 goals but 1 of them was Labs fault and the other we had 2 great chances to clear but it was just a matter of bad luck IMO. (When you have the puck right in the middle of the defensive zone and try to slap it down the middle of the ice and the other team keep it in, then it's just real bad luck IMO) We were really pressuring them and not once did I see our penalty killers on their heels with the opposition doing anyhing and everything they wanted against us. If we continue to apply pressure and do it smart like we did today, the results will come.

The Cammalleri-Avery-Roenick line was awesome all game long. Belanger is playing as well as he's ever played for us. Conroy and Demitra turned it on today. Frolov looked real good out their and Miller was AWESOME

If, we play like we did today and get solid goaltending from Garon then we will beat the stars.

GO KINGS GO!!!

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02-12-2006, 12:14 AM
  #114
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Well, since I sat in traffic forever on the way home from the game. I listened to the post game show with Nick, Darryl, and a little bit of Fox.
Most questions were gay as usual, except the last couple. The last one was about Avery....and Nick said that they are privied (don't know if I spelled that right) on more info (obviously) about the situation and the Avery benching had a lot more to do with something that happened behind the scenes. I don't like speculating but if it had to do with respect and a two game benching, i'm supposing it was something major.

Another caller was also talking about what we've been talking about for some time. AM's head! Nick came back with why would you fire the staff, and the caller had every answer lined up perfectly.........none the less...it don't mean ****! Nick was saying that DT plays it a bit more conservative......basically what we already knew. So again even if we get crushed tomorrow, don't hold your breath on a house cleaning..........won't happen!

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02-12-2006, 12:21 AM
  #115
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The thing I funny about the whole debate is that when Corvo scores a goal people act like he is a great "defenseman". I have never said that Corvo is a bad offensive player. In fact if he was one of the Kings forwards he could probably be a decent 2nd line scorer. The problem with the whole Corvo debate is that he is a "defenseman" which means his first priority (above all others) is to keep the other team from getting quality scoring chances on his goaltender. Can any of the Corvo defenders honestly say that Joe excels in this area?Just watch a replay of the Thrashers game and you will have your answer.

You wouldn't say a goalie who has 10 assists but a GAA of 3.50 is better than a goalie with no assists and a GAA of 2.50 because he contributes more to the teams offense would you? Would you call a forward who has 2 goals and 6 assists one of the best forwards in the league just because he plays well defensively in his own end would you?

Put it this way.....

I would rate Corvo's offensive ability at a B+

but I would only rate his defensive ability at a D+

His lack of ability to play well defensively is the reason that I and others criticize Corvo. But if everybody thinks that a defenseman should be rated on how many goals he scores then so be it. I just have different standards for what I consider a "good" defenseman.

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02-12-2006, 12:22 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
Nick was saying that DT plays it a bit more conservative......basically what we already knew. So again even if we get crushed tomorrow, don't hold your breath on a house cleaning..........won't happen!
why a house cleaning? The Kings can still be very dangerous...in my mind, use the 5 mil coming off the book from JR to acquire a #1 C like jokinen, or a couple useful top 6's/Dman, and we're set for a deep playoff run...

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02-12-2006, 12:24 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy
why a house cleaning? The Kings can still be very dangerous...in my mind, use the 5 mil coming off the book from JR to acquire a #1 C like jokinen, or a couple useful top 6's/Dman, and we're set for a deep playoff run...

Are you refering to this season....or next???

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02-12-2006, 12:25 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
Another caller was also talking about what we've been talking about for some time. AM's head! Nick came back with why would you fire the staff, and the caller had every answer lined up perfectly.........none the less...it don't mean ****! Nick was saying that DT plays it a bit more conservative......basically what we already knew. So again even if we get crushed tomorrow, don't hold your breath on a house cleaning..........won't happen!
That was our own CBGB

There is no point calling Kings Talk with something like that - all you'll get is frustration.

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Old
02-12-2006, 12:34 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
The thing I funny about the whole debate is that when Corvo scores a goal people act like he is a great "defenseman". I have never said that Corvo is a bad offensive player. In fact if he was one of the Kings forwards he could probably be a decent 2nd line scorer. The problem with the whole Corvo debate is that he is a "defenseman" which means his first priority (above all others) is to keep the other team from getting quality scoring chances on his goaltender. Can any of the Corvo defenders honestly say that Joe excels in this area?Just watch a replay of the Thrashers game and you will have your answer.

You wouldn't say a goalie who has 10 assists but a GAA of 3.50 is better than a goalie with no assists and a GAA of 2.50 because he contributes more to the teams offense would you? Would you call a forward who has 2 goals and 6 assists one of the best forwards in the league just because he plays well defensively in his own end would you?

Put it this way.....

I would rate Corvo's offensive ability at a B+

but I would only rate his defensive ability at a D+

His lack of ability to play well defensively is the reason that I and others criticize Corvo. But if everybody thinks that a defenseman should be rated on how many goals he scores then so be it. I just have different standards for what I consider a "good" defenseman.
All the cards you just played.. I can play too. When Corvo makes a minor mistake.. People act like he's the worst defenseman they've ever seen. And I have never said that Corvo was Mattias Norstrom. The New NHL is a more open, and offensive oriented game, and offensive defenseman are coveted in this league. Especially good ones. And Corvo is a good one. I'm not saying defense is a minor issue, its a huge issue, but just because you're labeled a defenseman doesn't mean defense is your first priority. Visnovskys first priority is not being a stay-at-home defenseman.

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02-12-2006, 12:42 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us
just because you're labeled a defenseman doesn't mean defense is your first priority.

Sorry Faceoffs but it does....hence the name "DEFENSEMAN". That is like saying just because you are labeled a goaltender that doesn't mean your first priority is to tend the goal.

I agree that there are different "types" of defenseman like the "stay-at-home" description you gave or the "powerplay quarterback". These are specialized roles given to defensemen. But their first and foremost priority is still to defend their own zone.

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02-12-2006, 12:43 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofCrunk
I'll let you decide who's the 4th on all of them.

As per teams that are in the playoffs right now,


You can decide.
Corvo offensively is better than 95% of the players on that list. Hell, he's probably just as good offensively as Liles, or Bergeron.

Some of the players you put on their are simply not fair. (i.e. Lidstrom, Pronger, Schneider, Zubov, Blake, Ohlund, Chelios.) These guys are in the upper tier of the league, and better than MOST defenseman.. Not just Corvo.

I said a list of 4th D. Not the BEST D in the league.

And I can still make arguments for Corvo over a guys like Spacek, Klemm, Daley, Markov, Kronwall, Bieksa, Baumgartner, McCarthy, Briesbois, Staois, Vaananen).. Sure defensively they're better, but their offensive skills dont come close.

And did anyone ever bother to think that maybe Visnovsky isn't a defensive juggernaut either? Corvo plays against the other teams top lines, is paired with a partner who plays similarly to him, (thanks AM) and it makes him look bad. Granted.. Vis isn't half as bad as Corvo in the defensive end.. but still.

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02-12-2006, 12:45 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Sorry Faceoffs but it does....hence the name "DEFENSEMAN"[SIZE=3]. That is like saying just because you are labeled a goaltender that doesn't mean your first priority is to tend the goal.
This comparison is RIDICULOUS. Absolutely RIDICULOUS, and I hope you do finally realize how RIDICULOUS it is. Its so ridiculous I had to capitalize it three times.

Ok... So John Michael Liles is on the Colorado Avalanche to do Rob Blake's job? No. He's on the team because he can move the puck, and be a good offensive defenseman.

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02-12-2006, 12:50 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us
This comparison is RIDICULOUS. Absolutely RIDICULOUS, and I hope you do finally realize how RIDICULOUS it is. Its so ridiculous I had to capitalize it three times.

Ok... So John Michael Liles is on the Colorado Avalanche to be Rob Blake. No. He's on the team because he can move the puck, and be a good offensive defenseman.

OK you think my statement is ridiculous??? Why don't the Kings just make Demitra a defenseman? He would easily win the Norris trophy right? Because in your world scoring goals is what makes a guy a "great" defenseman. Demitra would dominate the league. How many defensemen score 30+ goals on a regular basis? Hey Andy are you listening? Stop wasting Pavol's talent on the forward position. Make him a defenseman so he can become the next Paul Coffey.

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02-12-2006, 12:52 AM
  #124
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Liles plays solid D much the way Visnovsky does. If you want to name a play like that fits your analogy, you're going to have to reference Brisbois.

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02-12-2006, 12:57 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
OK you think my statement is ridiculous??? Why don't the Kings just make Demitra a defenseman? He would easily win the Norris trophy right? Because in your world scoring goals is what makes a guy a "great" defenseman. Demitra would dominate the league. How many defensemen score 30+ goals on a regular basis? Hey Andy are you listening? Stop wasting Pavol's talent on the forward position. Make him a defenseman so he can become the next Paul Coffey.
Not once did I ever say that. Not once.

Its clear to me you know nothing about the game.

Yes.. and lets just have EVERY forward who scores 30+ goals go back and play the blue! Because you know.. They all play the game like defenseman, and probably can move the puck just as well! Man! What were we thinking all this time!?

Edit: I confused myself on what I was trying to say on the latter part of this post. I edited it like three times.


Last edited by two out of three*: 02-12-2006 at 01:05 AM.
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